I was a betrayed spouse too.


We are not talking about an OW. We are talking about a wife with a 10 year marriage who has been cheated on.

If my husband's OW came here after 10 years, having been married to my husband for 10 years and I realized who they were, I would be very upset and know I could not provide the kind of help needed myself.


If you cannot help, by pass the thread, and let those who can help do so.

FWIW and I don't think it'll be worth much in the present climate in this thread our MC told us that major life changes and traumas cause people who are not well equipped to deal with them (I wasn't) to completely change. It can take the form of gambling or drinking or infidelity or other self destructive behaviour. Counsellors are taught to look out for it.

My H's response to our losses (3 very close deaths (parents) in a year) was to fall into a total depression and withdraw from life. Mine, although I didn't know it then, was to have an A.

My boss in my old job had to deal with the murder of the daughter of very close friends of theirs. He was told by victim support that there was a 99% chance of his friends' marriage failing. My boss took over everything (court appearances, funeral arrangements etc) for the other family because they were totally incapable of functioning. My boss's marriage failed.

******EDIT*************

BK,

The following statement is WAY OUT OF LINE.
You have absolutely no right to accuse someone willing to at least talk to JJ of also being willing to aid affairs. Her exH is now married again, I guess. There is NO going back, there is no undoing history.

I think you really need to take this elsewhere, like another site, if you really have nothing useful to say.

I have been here a long time and YOU SIR have finally done it. I am totally P****ed off about the bahavior and attitude I have seen you display. You don't have to like her, accept her, or help her,but the your comment I just quoted is WAY OUT OF LINE.

She has asked YOU for nothing and clearly you are a person of so little resources you can not even offer the kindness of your silence.

It is time for you to really look at your attitude.

JL

Why gosh, is that a brand spanking new posting ID?
How...clever.
It is too bad that after this I won't be able to see any more of your words of wisdom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have a nice day.

jilly,

I nursed my mother through cancer....I was holding her hand when she died. It was a defining moment in my life. How do you think this event played into the dynamics of what followed? Please feel free to write to me if you feel as though your presence here is too difficult for yourself and others. starfish4729@gmail.com

I am very sorry if what I said hurt Just Jilly. I would never intentionally hurt anyone.

It was evident from the first thread she started that this topic was causing a great deal of pain to a large number of people, yet several people were so insensitive as to to start other threads concerning her. Why is that?

If they wanted to help her, why not carry it off line? IWRA seems to have carried it offline, yet she started a thread and after it was locked has continued it on this and other threads.

and what is this thread about?

she wanted to talk to MM about adoption. I saw little having to do with that.

I wonder what she does want from this thread?

It comes off looking like she is wanting everyone to feel bad for all the grief she has lived through so they can overlook the fact that she committed adultry and married the om.

I am sorry anyone has to live through being a BS. It is the worst feeling in the world and no one deserves it.

Just Jilly married a man whom she knew did not believe in fidelity. That is a fact.

Did she think that he wouldn't do it to her? Yes, it sounds trite to say :if he cheats with you, he'll cheat on you, but it is true.

The story she told us is 8 years ago. Do you honestly think this is the reason her husband had an affair- 8 years later? No, it happened because he does not believe in fidelity.

This happened right after they got married- has the affair been going on that long?

As I said, I didn't mean to hurt anyone. I think enough people have been hurt by just continually seeing new threads about this pop up.

JL, I truly believe what I have written. It is truly offensive to me for anyone on this marrigebuilding board to help strengthen an affair marriage. If my own wife had married OM it revolts me to think that you, and others, might be offering help to support that marrige and considering it legitimate. Their "marriage" required the rape of at least two innocent hearts and without their EXPRESS permission I could never santion helping their WS in their affair marriage. Sorry that my view or the presentation of it was so offensive to you, but I assure you no more offensive than these boards helping sustain an affair marrige is to me.

BK - I assume you are asking this question from a Christian perspective.

If that assumption is correct, then the answer is; "When God forgives the sin for Christ's sake." Nothing more, nothing less. Just like any other sin that humans commit that God forgives upon heartfelt sorrow and repentance of past behavior because of their surrender to Jesus as their Lord and Savior. God the Father forgives for Christ's sake, not ours.

To perhaps put it in perspective, I have not forgiven my wife's FOM and will not until he accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior. He does not and has not. If the Lord will not forgive his sin, neither can I. But if he becomes a "brother in the Lord," then I will have no choice but to forgive him should he seek my forgiveness for his past offense against me. I am commanded by God to forgive a "brother in the Lord" seventy times seven times, if necessary, not because I "want to, decide at some point that I feel like doing so, or it makes me feel good because 'forgiveness is a gift you give yourself' (which I disagree with)," but simply because God has said that is what I am supposed to do to be obedient to HIS command whether I 'feel like it' or not. Christ gave this command to an incredulous Peter who thought his magnanimous extension of the Jewish standard of 3 times to 7 times was "sufficient." It is NOT by "our ideas of standards," but by God's standards. God, not us, is Sovereign.

I do not have to have any relationship of any kind with him, should the day ever arrive when he is forgiven, other than to grant a request for forgiveness in obedience to God and leave him in God's hands for God to work in his life as God works in the lives of all who believe in Jesus Christ and surrender their lives, however messed up they were, or are, to Him.

Sundog,

My daughter is 7. My H and I have been together for 11 years and will be married 8 years in Nov. Our relationship began as an affair. We were both married. It was wrong. We both know that. My stepson is 12 and also lives with us. We both divorced our former spouses. All of our family/ friends etc. know about our A. It was exposed after I told my XH that I wanted to separate. Everything came out.

My H and I worked together. That is where we met. I lived in town A. He lived in town B. We worked in town C. After we were both separated I moved into an apartment by myself in town A and H moved into a rental house in town B.We still worked in town C. About 9 months later I moved to town B but lived in a house by myself. About 6 months later my H and I bought a house together and moved in together. I found out I was pregnant in Oct.of 1999 and we got married in Nov. of 1998.

I became suspicious about friendship my H developed with a coworker in late March/April of this year. At first I didn't think anything about it. He had known this girl since HS. She is M with 2 daughters. She and her H were in the process of separating. They devised a living arrangement of renting an apt. in which they the parents rotated to while the kids stayed at the home with whichever parent’s turn it was.

When I got the cell phone bill there was an unusually large number of calls both incoming and outgoing to her. There were also many text messages. When I asked him about this he got very defensive. My reaction was that if there wasn't anything to hide then why didn't she just call the house instead of his cell. He agreed that that seemed reasonable and told the OW this.

The following month there were just as many if not more cell calls and texts. I again called him out on this. The more defensive he became the more suspicious I became. He came home from work one afternoon and told me that he had gone to her apt. for lunch to hook up a DVD player for her. His best friend/coworker mother like figure to him didn't like this. She pulled him aside and asked him if he was in the long haul of his marriage to me. She later told me he was shocked by her asking this but she told him if he was that he better go home that day and confess to me that he had gone to her apt. alone for lunch which he did. I told him I didn't like it at all and that did he think that that would be okay for me to do? His initial response was "well I trust you and I don't know why you don't trust me...etc."

Things continued to get worse. We started fighting about her a lot. One night when I came into the den I saw him IM which he never does. He immediately minimized it when I came in and then lied and said he wasn't. Then the lies just kept coming. Eventually the fighting got to a point where he said to me that he didn't know if he could be married to someone who didn't trust him. For me this comment was a HUGE red flag.

The OW had gastric bypass surgery a couple of years ago. She was very overweight prior to the surgery. I think after she lost the weight she had sort of a mid life crisis. My H talked to me about her and her problems quite a bit. He confided in me that she had since her separation slept with the live-in BF/father of her good friend. I was alarmed by this. She was also going out partying a lot on the nights she was at the apt. She was dating another man as well. At first she was talking to my H about her marital problems and her dating problems with these other 2 men. I felt bad for her that her life was in chaos but I told my H that I didn't think it was a good idea for him to be her 'go to guy'. After many frank discussions regarding his "friendship" it was decided that he was going to tell her that he was no longer going to be able to be her "go to guy" friend anymore.

Well he did have this discussion with her. She got so upset that she had to leave work crying. After this happened my H started emailing me at work and reaming me for harming an innocent person who did not deserve this all because of my lack of trust in him. His emails were extremely hostile and I too left work that day. I knew in my heart that there was way more to this then he was admitting. The fact that he was more concerned about the OW feelings being hurt then mine was mind blowing. He didn't know I had had to leave work and another blowout occurred when he came home. I left the house and called the OW from my cell. I was crying hysterically and trying to explain to her that this was causing serious problems in our marriage and how or what would she think if she was in my shoes. She was very apologetic and said she totally understood and would stop. I said I didn't mind them being friends it was the whole secretive nature of their R that bothered me.

It didn't end there. She then started inviting us as a couple to come over to BBQ's etc. at her house. My H took our D to one. My son refused to go and I didn't wish to go either. I still in my gut didn't have a good feeling about this at all. But I was trying hard to be more trusting. This in hindsight was a huge mistake on my part.

After finding out that my H took our D swimming at her house (supposedly another party with other people...only people were her and her D and my H and our D) it started to become an issue again but we were no into summer vacation so I thought okay it is summer they won't be seeing each other every day etc.

June 9th was the official D-day. My H said he was going to his brother's and then to shoot some pictures. (He has a professional photo business on the side.) I got this overwhelming feeling that he was at her apt. I don't why I just did so I got in my car and drove to her apt. His car was parked out front. I called his cell from my cell and got his voice mail. Her apt. was a garage apt. behind a house. I couldn't figure out how to get the back fence gate open to get up there. Pretty soon they figured out that I was there and H came down and opened the gate for me. At this point I was having a full blown panic attack.

He asked me if we could please not do this here. I said no way I am going up and confronting her. He told me she is scared of you. He said she thought I was going to physically attack her. I felt like I might. I felt out of control.

I asked him what he was doing there. He said she had called crying right as he was leaving his brother's because she and her H had just returned from a trip where she had told him that she wanted a D. (Lie...he later told me that he told her he wanted a D.) Anyway I went up and asked her what she was doing with my H. She told me the same thing he had said. My response was why my H would be the first person she called regarding this. Why not her sister? Her mom? She couldn't answer that. My H actually had the audacity to ask me if I wanted to check the bedroom. I was so disgusted by this comment I flat out said NO I DO NOT. I told her that I thought it was really awful of her since after I had told her in our previous phone conversation that this was causing serious M problems for us that she obviously incapable of telling the truth. I wasn't there that long. I think my last comments were something like he's all yours...you guys deserve each other. My H did not leave with me. He said he would be home in a few minutes.

He did come home about 20 minutes later and he started packing a bag. I was like what are you doing...not only this but now you are going to leave us too? I think now that he thought that I was going to make him leave. He said then that he was packing in case things got out of hand and he needed to leave for the kid's sake.

I was lying on the bed crying. My stepson who by this point had put enough together took his sister outside in the yard to play. I just kept saying I can't believe you are going to leave. He asked me what I wanted him to do. I said I wanted him to hold me. I know that sounds kind of weird that I would want him to hold me when I was so angry, hurt, betrayed etc. but besides being my H he is also my best friend. I needed him. He did hold me and he kept saying he was sorry. I told him I thought I could forgive him and that I did NOT want a divorce or for him to leave. He unpacked. He stayed. I said you have to choose her or us. He said I choose us.

The following day the OWH called. My H talked to him for a long time. He went outside so I don't know all that was said in their conversation. He did promise the OWH that he would have NC with the OW. He relayed some of their conversation to me. It wasn't pretty. The OWH was asking him if he ate certain food and such as they were not things that were normally in their home and my H had to confess that yes he did. I also found out then that he had not been to her house alone once or twice but quite a few more times. I thought that this would be the end of contact. IT WAS NOT.

The following week I began to get fwd.emails from several of the OW's secret email accounts. They contained emails from her and replies from him. It was gut wrenching. It was hard to read that them telling each other I love you. I didn't disclose this to my H at first because all the emails at first were dated prior to the 9th. I didn't want to tell him because I knew that if I did it would mean further contact.

Then I got the fwd. emails past the 9th from another email account. There was just one from him and 2 from her. She was going on and on about her feelings for him and had his heart changed toward her etc. She was pissed that he hadn't contacted her even just to tell her they couldn't have contact any longer. She said she was felt that this no contact decision was one that she was left out of making and that it shouldn't be up to me or the OWH whether or not they continued contact.

She even included a little message to me that said something like "and hey Jilly if you are reading this maybe we should get together and I can fill you in on some things. I am not trying to steal your H from you. Your family is everything to him." The bitterness in her words spoke volumes about how she felt about my H. She was in love with him.

His email said he was trying to rebuild with me saying he wished he could go back and do a lot of things differently. He said he thought they should let the hotmail accounts die.

Her next email after getting his started out Happy Father's Day...I love you. Then there was some sarcastic bit about him "rebuilding his mess" I assume referring to our M. She went on to tell him that they could set up new safer secret email accounts and leaving her cell number etc. and telling him it was safe for him to contact her etc.

After this set of emails I attached and fwd. them to her with a long email explaining exactly how I felt about this whole thing. I also fwd. it to my H. I wrote a small note to him in the email that he had to make a choice. I gave him an out so to speak. He again said I choose us.

He was so pissed when he found out about the fwd.emails that he called her. I knew this was going to happen but I was right there when he called her and I talked to her too. He H was there too. They both claimed that the emails were sent to me by her H. He vehemently denied this. I think she sent them. The biggest clue is that she addresses me directly in one of them. Also she and my H have both lied to me. The OWH has no reason to lie to me. He is an innocent victim in all this. He already knew that I knew about their A because he knew I had caught them at her apt. He called the day after that so it wasn't like he had something to expose. I think she did it in the hopes that I would leave him. I believe this with all my heart. She says she didn't but I know my H didn't do it. There were things in those emails that I know he would have preferred that I didn't know.

It was a full blown EA and at least in the beginning stages of a PA. My H swears on our kids' lives that he did not have sex with her. Could he be lying...yes? But I don't think he did have sex with her. I think some kissing and maybe some other stuff happened but I don't think they had gotten that far. I have no doubt in my mind if D-day didn't occur when it did that eventually it would have become a full blown PA too. Here's the part that is really confusing for me. It hurts me more that he told her he loved her than any of the PA stuff bothers me. I think even if he did have sex with her the I love you part is harder for me. Is this normal...to be more hurt by the emotional intimacy then the physical? I don't mean that the PA doesn't hurt it does but for me not as much as the EA.

Is my H still in the affair? To my knowledge no. I think it is over. I don't think they have had any contact since the phone call regarding the emails. He gave me all the password to all his email accounts, took the password off his computer, off his cell phone etc. The last cell bill had nothing suspicious. He calls me from his cell whenever he goes anywhere and accounts for all of his time etc. We are on summer vacation so we have pretty much been together 24/7 for the last 2 months.

He wrote me a formal letter of apology. It was very deep and I think he meant what he said. He promised to never ever do anything like this again. He says that when he saw that I not only could but would forgive him and fight for our marriage something in his heart changed. All the walls of resentment etc. came down and he wants our M to become better and stronger. These are words though. They help but actions speak louder and right now his actions seem to match his words.

He is dealing with his guilt and he is ashamed of his conduct. It is hard sometimes for me to witness how much he is 2x4ing himself. We are both on meds right now to help us cope with this. I am on an AD plus an anti anxiety PRN for the panic attacks. At the beginning of all of this I was having multiple panic attacks daily. Every time he went anywhere, the phone rang, he was on his computer etc. The panic attacks have slowed considerably and I am not using the anti anxiety meds very much anymore. The AD has helped. I hope to get off that soon too.

On a positive note I have gained a couple of pounds back. I weighed 120 and am 5'4 prior to this. I lost in total 15 pounds and was down to 105lbs. I am at about 108 now so I think that is a good sign. During my divorce from my XH I weighed about 125 and lost 25 pounds during that time. It seems to be my body's way of dealing with anxiety. It wasn't that I wanted to lose weight or not to eat. My stomach just gets so messed up that I feel sick when I am under this kind of stress.

The doctor also put me on prevacid for my stomach. It reduces the acid production and this has helped a lot. I am now consuming a healthy amount of calories a day. We are walking as a family almost daily. The walking helps with the anxiety as well. I have also found that taking a long hot shower sometimes helps reduce my anxiety level. Reading the bible helps me too. I don't try to figure out what I should read I just open it up and read wherever I wind up. God seems to know what I need to read because I have yet to not be amazed at where I wind up. My H is also working on his spiritual side as well.

Sorry this is so long...I am trying to answer the questions that were in the posts I deleted.

Thank you Sundog for caring. I am trying very hard to get to the bottom of some core issues that have led me to make bad choices in my life. Somewhere I read something that said that until we learn the lesson we will keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. I am trying to do that.

With humble gratitude,
Jilly

Molly,

I am trying to figure out a lot of things right now. My mom dying and my being adopted are part of who I am. Our experiences shape who we become and who we become often determines the choices that we make.

Part of the reason this thread was started was for me to try again here at MB. I didn't do so well my first time. I am trying to do better. It was also a thread for MM and I to discuss adoption. If you are not adopted or the parent,family member or spouse of someone who is then the post regarding adoption may seem irrelevant to you. It is okay if you feel that way. It is just a part of who I am. I don't expect anyone to understand it. I am just dealing with it and how it has affected me. I hope that you can respect that I am trying very hard to work on becoming a better person.

Jilly

MF,


That is up to you. I never said I had a horrible childhood. I said I have some issues to work through. You don't have to read them if you don't want to. I mean no disrespect to you.


No...it doesn't. I never said it did. Again I am trying to grow.You don't have to help me or follow my thread. If I am offensive to you, which again I accept and understand, then please feel free to not participate.

Sincerly,
Jilly

BlackOpal,

Thank you for your kindness and for advise on how to use the ignore feature.

You are very astute in your understanding that I am very tangled up inside. I am trying to untangle myself so that I can become a better person, wife, mother, friend. Since I don't really know exactly how to do this I am kind of all over the place. Thank you for your patience with me.

With sincere gratitude,
Jilly

CFC,

Thank you...from the bottom of my heart. I do need help. That is why I am trying here.

I am very clear that my marriage is very offensive to many here. I am sorry to all BS everywhere. I do not wish to cause you any further harm. If you need to ignore me I totally understand. Some felt they could help me and that is why I came back.

With sincere gratitude,
Jilly

Okay,

Before I get to JJ and some of the things she posted and/or asked, I want to say something here.

First off, I started this thread...not JJ. I did so because after reading her story originally, I do think that her situation can be helped in God's plan...and also can be very illustrative to all of us concernign marriages that start this way...and concerning OPs in general.

So, I started this thread so that JJ can begin to discuss soem of this AND all of us can begin to understand this.

The verbal foodfight that is going on is really wrong...on both sides. Sure, whaty JJ did to get into the current marriage was wrong. And offensive. And hurtful. I would be the LAST one to let that go by, and you all know that!! So for the folks that think that JJ gets a pass at tough, probing questions really need to take it elsewhere. Because she needs tough probing questions and answers in order to get thru the mess she created.

But, on the other side...I see the "repent or die" position. What I mean by that is that the guy on the street corner with the sign that says "repent or die" is absolutely correct...and absolutely wrong. He is correct because without accepting Jesus, every person will go to He!1. But he is wrong because NO ONE has been won to Christ on a "repent or die" slogan.

Jesus did not say "get better, and then I'll love you." He did not say "get your act straight, and then I'll help you." Jesus deals with us where we are.

Now, as I said before...and anyone here that knows me knows this to be true...JJ needs to know where she is. But she also needs to be dealt with in a way that will lead her to FULLY understand that...and be able to pull thru that and do what Jesus wants.

So, those that are involved in this food fight, please sit on the sidelines for a little bit. Watch how this unfolds for awhile before chiming in. Let's see where the Lord takes thsi thread...and JJ.

I am not calling anyone out on either side...yet. But there are those on both sides that need to back down now and just watch where this goes for awhile.

I believe the Lord is going to do a work here. Please do not get in the way.

JJ,

Since you started off with a lot of stuff, let me deal with the easy stuff here first. And that was your questions concerning my son.


I will look into it...thanks.


I met my wife when he was jsut a few months old. She had met a guy while in college, got pregnant...then left college. She had not told the guy...just went home and had the baby. In the meantime, the guy met someone else and got married and had a girl the next year. Once we married, we decided to contact the guy and tell him of our oldest, and see what his intentions were. He was/is a very honorable man. We were living in Virginia...he in Kansas. He realized that we had already begun raising our son and he had no idea about his bio dad. He also knew that living so far away, that being actively involved would be a problem. So, he agreed to sign over custody to my wife and to allow me to adopt my son and to chaneg his name, birth certificate, etc. My name appears as the father on the birth cert. His bio dad has kept his word and stayed away all of this time. His mother, my son's bio grandmother, gets packages every so often from us with pictures, letters from my wife saying what he is doing, how he is doing.

But for my son...he never knew. He looks a lot like the two children my wife and I did have, so there was never any hint of the fact that he wasnt mine biologically. While I do not have a favorite, anyone around us would see that I spend probably most of my time with my oldest son. My mother at times has even made mistakes like saying "MM, I think he is getting your ears." Then I look at her, and she realizes the mistake she just made...and laughs. He is NO different and has never been different than his brother or sister (well, maybe his sister...but that's because she is my girl...and both boys will just have to get over that!!). But to answer your question fully, the bio dad has not been involved in his life. He kept his word, and I respect him for what he did and for keeping his word!!


You can see in my tag line below that I have the adopted boy, who is 14. I also have a daughter who is 12 and a son who is 8.


He does now. My wife, in the middle of this mess we have been going thru, just decided one day that she was going to sit down and tell him. He NEVER knew before that. He had been close before, because he would see his birthdate and our wedding date and see they were 8 months apart...with the wedding after his birthday. But he just passed that off for awhile as mom and dad probably had sex before marriage! But as I said, my wife decided to tell him i nthe middle of this mess. "I think he deserves to know now." Well, I agree he deserves to know. But considering the mess we were going thru, and the abandonment that his mother was doing with him...she was just piling on with that. His brother and sister do not know, as I have given him the option of when he wanted them to know. I told him that they will need to knwo one day, btu for now...it was only information that he needed to know and he could decide when he is ready to share it with others. I did sit down and go thru the situation with him and why everything happened. And that his bio dad was a very honorable man. In fact, with everythign that has been happening with my wife, all her telling him did was to make me and the bio dad look good, and make my wife look like a s!ut to him.


All three kids know. we now have the custody hearign over with.


I am not living with my wife, as of June 1st (she left again). We went to court in July, and we got shared custody...but the order says that the children will primarily reside with me. I get them over 200 days a year...my wife gets around 160...and all of her days are during the week (Mon evening thru Thursday evening). I get Thursday thru Monday. Plus all Spring Breaks.


That is no problem JJ.

I will get to your info and sitch shortly!!

JJ,

I have read your sitch. So, my first question is what are you looking for now? I see that your husband has come to you and apologized. Is this just a matter now of you getting over his betrayal?

Once I know exactly where you stand now, we can see what we can do.

And so it goes again...

Some people just don't know when to leave it alone...

"Jesus did not say "get better, and then I'll love you." He did not say "get your act straight, and then I'll help you." Jesus deals with us where we are."

Good point MM...

LowOrbit...thanks. But as I said...let's let this die for awhile. Okay?

For a little while, this is going to be nothing but about JJ. And where the Lord takes this. I hope you and everyone else understands.

JJ ... I'm inspired by your courage to come back and give this another go.

Sometimes just writing stuff out...and having someone read it ... untangles things. I don't know why this happens, but it's almost like a cleansing moment. I used to "carry" my past hurts in a bag...strapped around my neck...and that gets PRETTY heavy.

I very much related to the passing of your mom... my experience mimics your's in that respect.

As I read your posts... I can definately see that you're at a place that you desire resolution... healing.

Where are you at now? This has been such a volatile thread/threads, it's been difficult for me to figure out timelines with your H's A.

Thanks to MM ... for opening a door here.