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Jilly, first my apology for not responding sooner. I have not been on MB in some time and only check in from time to time now to check on you and one or two others.
First no apology necessary and second thanks for checking on those of us you do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I accept that this anger is a part of the recovery and the guilt about feeling that way. I want to get through this phase..II know I know...patience) because it makes me feel discouraged because I feel like why couldn't I have been mad at him earlier in this when it would have made more sense... instead of now when the A is over and he has worked so hard. I suspect that it in part was tied into my immense amount of fear in the beginning right after D-day.
I see now that my H still has a lot of fear that I am going to either leave him or have an A myself. Neither is going to happen period. I am committed to our recovery and I love my H despite being upset with him. I feel sad that he worries about this but I accept that these are his fears... and they seem very real to him. I think it is just part of his process. He still struggles with the guilt and shame.
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Jilly, God is taking you through the "valley." He is NOT expecting you to walk it alone or to even know the way. The "dark valleys" ARE scary, and God knows that. He gave us Psalm 23 (and many other passages) so that we will know that we DON'T walk alone, even when it seems as though we are alone. But HE leads, and we follow. We trust Him to know the path, to know how long the valley is, to know what WE need to see and confront as we KNOW that HE not only walks with us but HE carries the "biggest stick" and we don't have to carry one. COMFORT is what God is teaching you right now, Jilly. Comfort with God. Comfort with God being in control. Comfort with Jilly not being in control of everything. Comfort with your being a "new creation" who UNDERSTANDS sin against God and comfort with the TRUTH that Jesus actually DID "cover over" all of your sins, and the sins of ALL born again believers. It's NOT about "fairness," its about forgiveness. And sometimes being the "forgiven" is harder than being the "forgiver."
FH... I am so working on this. I agree that for me being the forgiven is actually harder for me. I just have to remain faithful... I see why this crying keeps happening to me in church. It is because this is where I do feel forgiven and this is where my guard is broken and I feel relief. This is why I go even when I don't feel like it. I realize really how important it is for me to regularly spend time in God's house.
Okay on to the debt/tithe issues.
We have a pretty substantial amount of debt. I think we need to pay this off. I don't think God wants us to be in debt. I called a couple of trusted Christian friends regarding tithing. Most said you are to pay off debt first. Then there were some big differences of opinion regarding tithe itself and where it is and how it is to be paid... to the church... charities etc. There was a lot of mixed opinions about this.
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I'm not going to get into a big debate about tithing. But I want you to think about a few things. First, all that we have IS the Lords. We are stewards of what he has entrusted to us. Tithing is an Old Testament requirement for the Jews, in part to teach them that very fact. What did God "withhold" from us? His Son? All that He is?
He withheld nothing from us... so maybe what that means is that I withhold nothing from Him not even my shame and fear about debt. The burden of debt is heavy. He is stronger than I am.
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Does that mean that we give all our money to the church? Think about your own circumstances for guidance in what God is teaching YOU about financial giving. IF you gave a tithe that you could not afford and left yourself "enslaved" to debt, is that what God would want from you NOW? What about when you are "debt free?" Does God want you to tithe exclusively to your church, or to perhaps help others in need also?
Hmmm interesting point... enslavement to debt. No I don't think that is maybe what God wants from me now. Maybe what He wants for me right now is to get out of debt. This will require a strong level of discipline. I have been in a lot of debt once before. I paid it off. It required a huge committment and a willingness to go without a lot of things... but not food or shelter or the basic neccesities. It means cutting fat and wasteful spending. I can do this. I realize in part this mess is a result of self medicating with spending in an unhealthy way. As we align ourselves more and more with Christ... I accept this is also another set of consequences we are facing as a result of not walking with the Lord. It isn't a pretty truth but it is our truth and it is better to live in that truth and work on the consequences than stay in the sinful mess and continue being led by Satan. I have a feeling Satan loves debt. It is just another angle he can work to make us feel crappy about ourselves.
As far as exactly where giving goes I don't have the answer to that but I do ask myself what would Jesus do? Whenever I ask myself that question I am never sorry I did because I believe Jesus would say give where the money is most needed.
Here is an example of what I think is in the true spirit of what I think Jesus would do. Several weeks ago my H took our son to his lesson downtown. There was a man there going through garbage cans looking for bottles and cans and asking for money. My H didn't have any cash on him but he always throws his change in the ashtray of his car. He said to the man I don't have any money on me but I will give you all the change I have in my car if you want it. My H appoloized saying it wasn't very much. The man told my H that change adds up too. He was gratefil to have it.
A few days ago my H was downtown again with our son for his lesson. He saw this same man again. This time my H had a little cash on him and gave the man $10. Again my H said I am sorry it isn't more. The man told my H that $10 was a lot of money to him right now. After the lesson my H and son were eating in a sandwich shop and saw the man going through the garbage again. My H went outside and asked the man to come in that he would buy him a sandwich. The man was surprised but came in. While they were waiting in line they struck up a conversation and the man told my H that he had only recently been released from prison and that he was really having a hard time finding a job as an excon. He said he has a wife and 3 girls at home. My H asked if he would also like to get some food for his wife and girls. The man (apparently this kind of giving isn't something this man has experienced much of) seemed shocked by this gesture and kept saying no... that is too much. My H said no...get sandwiches, chips, drinks whatever you want... take it home and feed your family.
While the sandwiches were being made the man told my H that he has been really stressed out about what they are going to do about Thanksgiving and told my H that the $10 was going to be enough for him to go to the food bank and purchase a turkey that they sell there for $7. By the time my H paid with his ATM for the sandwiches etc. it was about $40 plus the $10 cash.
My H came home and told me this story saying he realized that we really didn't have the money to give away $50 but he felt that this man needed it more than we did. I think he needed it more than we did too. This is what I think Jesus would have done. Is this not a form of tithe? It certainly isn't 10%. However when I think about this selfish act of giving on my H's part I think this is truly the spirit we are supposed to give with... without reservation and where we see a need. I don't mean this to suggest that we shouldn't give to our church as well.
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The "idea" revolves around where we "place" money in our thinking. We ALL struggle with, or have struggled with, the "love of money." But God wants to teach us to be "content" in our own circumstances and not envious of others or guilt ridden because we are not "doing" what a "good Christian" should do. You have to be careful in this area of "doing" as a "measure" of your standing with God. God has no need of your money. God wants you to be a steward of what He has entrusted to you, be it a lot or a little. YOU have taken yourself into "debt bondage," as did I and many many others. It stems from the "I deserve it" and "I want it now" mentality, rather than from being content with what God has given us. Guess what, most of us "got there" before we became believers, and now we deal with THOSE consequences. And one of those is God's direction to "pay back" what WE owe to others and THAT is a huge "Christian witness" in itself.
I completely agree with this. Again... in order to pay back what we owe and it is quite a bit there will be some adjustments to our standard of living. We were once in a large amount of debt. We considered bankruptcy... it was the "it" thing to do at the time. We chose not to file and althought it took us awhile and a lot of changes in our budget to do it we did. I have to say that when we were doing it I never felt bad about it either... it was the weirdest thing. I just let go of the material trappings and found an inner peace and streghth about paying it off. Even though my R with God was no where near good at the time I do think even then because that was a good choice... taking resonsibilty for it instead of giving up and filing bankruptcy, I think God helped me even then. It was a very humbling experience.
I think we are in debt again because we one we weren't in relationship with God so we even though we had steadfastly paid off a huge amount of debt we didn't learn... and we fell to the sinful trappings of materialism AGAIN. I am actually going to accept this again and I choose to believe that God again is using this debt as a means of teaching us humbleness again.
So thank you for helping me again to go back and think about what God really wants for us and to try to live accordingly.
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Finally, be careful about the idea that God WILL provide you with more money just because someone DOES something. God CAN do so, but God is NOT "beholden" to us because we "do" something. Consider the parable of the money the "master" entrusted to some servants. Some a greater amount and some a lesser amount. The "rewards" and "judgment" came after the master returned, not while the servants were "on their own." The "rewards" God promises us are in heaven, and are based in our heart and the "motive" for what we did. Becoming more "Christ-like" in our lives is what the Sanctification journey is all about, not what we do in anticipation of God "Having To" give us anything in return.
I recognize the idea of motive and how relevant the story of the "widow's mite" really is. She gave with a pure heart not because she was expecting to get something in return but because she believed. It is a powerful story.
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P.S. When did God become a "Tax Collector" interested in only how much money he gets and not concerned about you and your family, and uses that to decide how he will "bless" you?
FH... never thought of it that way but I since I think our God is a compassionate, loving, and forgiving God then in fact He looks into our hearts and sees what is truly there.
Thank you... again and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Thank you... again and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Jilly, I think we both have a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving. I, for one, am very thankful for the long-suffering patience of God with me and His steadfast commitment to teach me (sometimes the same lesson over and over until I finally "get it") what He wants me to know in order to become more Christ-like. I am most thankful for what He did for me despite myself, because of his steadfast love. Just think how that one act of love on God's part affects every aspect of our lives and upholds us in the "dark times" we may face.
"Let us give thanks unto the Lord for He is....."
What a list we can all finish that sentence with.
God bless and meditate on the Lord and all His blessings this Thanksgiving.
Yes, we do have so much to be thankful for. I am thankful that God knew that we couldn't do it alone... that he really loved us THAT much that He sent His son to pay for what we can never earn. Often it takes a crisis to see this... but no matter how bad we have messed things up... there is hope and relief in Him.
Someone sent this to me. I don't usually fwd. email kind of stuff but this was something that came as an email fwd. when I really needed this kind of inspiration. I will try to upload the video link so you can watch it. If it doesn't work the url is at the bottom of this message.
This is really a story of faith, hope, love, and belief.
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Strongest Dad in the World
[From Sports Illustrated, By Rick Reilly]
I try to be a good father. Give my kids mulligans. Work nights to pay for their text messaging. Take them to swimsuit shoots.
But compared with [censored] Hoyt, I suck.
Eighty-five times he's pushed his disabled son, Rick, 26.2 miles in marathons. Eight times he's not only pushed him 26.2 miles in a wheelchair but also towed him 2.4 miles in a dinghy while swimming and pedaled him 112 miles in a seat on the handlebars--all in the same day.
[censored]'s also pulled him cross-country skiing, taken him on his back mountain climbing and once hauled him across the U.S. on a bike. Makes taking your son bowling look a little lame, right?
And what has Rick done for his father? Not much--except save his life.
This love story began in Winchester, Mass., 43 years ago, when Rick was strangled by the umbilical cord during birth, leaving him brain-damaged and unable to control his limbs.
``He'll be a vegetable the rest of his life;'' [censored] says doctors told him and his wife, Judy, when Rick was nine months old. ``Put him in an institution.''
But the Hoyts weren't buying it. They noticed the way Rick's eyes followed them around the room. When Rick was 11 they took him to the engineering department at Tufts University and asked if there was anything to help the boy communicate. ``No way,'' [censored] says he was told. ``There's nothing going on in his brain.''
"Tell him a joke,'' [censored] countered. They did. Rick laughed. Turns out a lot was going on in his brain.
Rigged up with a computer that allowed him to control the cursor by touching a switch with the side of his head, Rick was finally able to communicate. First words? ``Go Bruins!'' And after a high school classmate was paralyzed in an accident and the school organized a charity run for him, Rick pecked out, ``Dad, I want to do that.''
Yeah, right. How was [censored], a self-described ``porker'' who never ran more than a mile at a time, going to push his son five miles? Still, he tried. ``Then it was me who was handicapped,'' [censored] says. ``I was sore for two weeks.''
That day changed Rick's life. ``Dad,'' he typed, ``when we were running, it felt like I wasn't disabled anymore!''
And that sentence changed [censored]'s life. He became obsessed with giving Rick that feeling as often as he could. He got into such hard-belly shape that he and Rick were ready to try the 1979 Boston Marathon.
``No way,'' [censored] was told by a race official. The Hoyts weren't quite a single runner, and they weren't quite a wheelchair competitor. For a few years [censored] and Rick just joined the massive field and ran anyway, then they found a way to get into the race officially: In 1983 they ran another marathon so fast they made thequalifying time for Boston the following year.
Then somebody said, ``Hey, [censored], why not a triathlon?''
How's a guy who never learned to swim and hadn't ridden a bike since he was six going to haul his 110-pound kid through a triathlon? Still, [censored] tried.
Now they've done 212 triathlons, including four grueling 15-hour Ironmans in Hawaii. It must be a buzzkill to be a 25-year-old stud getting passed by an old guy towing a grown man in a dinghy, don't you think?
Hey, [censored], why not see how you'd do on your own? ``No way,'' he says. [censored] does it purely for ``the awesome feeling'' he gets seeing Rick with a cantaloupe smile as they run, swim and ride together.
This year, at ages 65 and 43, [censored] and Rick finished their 24th Boston Marathon, in 5,083rd place out of more than 20,000 starters.
Their best time'? Two hours, 40 minutes in 1992--only 35 minutes off the world record, which, in case you don't keep track of these things, happens to be held by a guy who was not pushing another man in a wheelchair at the time.
``No question about it,'' Rick types. ``My dad is the Father of the Century.''
And [censored] got something else out of all this too. Two years ago he had a mild heart attack during a race. Doctors found that one of his arteries was 95% clogged. ``If you hadn't been in such great shape,'' one doctor told him, ``you probably would've died 15 years ago.''
So, in a way, [censored] and Rick saved each other's life.
Rick, who has his own apartment (he gets home care) and works in Boston, and [censored], retired from the military and living in Holland, Mass., always find ways to be together. They give speeches around the country and compete in some backbreaking race every weekend, including this Father's Day.
That night, Rick will buy his dad dinner, but the thing he really wants to give him is a gift he can never buy.
``The thing I'd most like,'' Rick types, ``is that my dad sit in the chair and I push him once.''
I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas and thank you for all the support you have given me these months as I have struggled on. Thank you for encouraging me to deepen my relationship with Christ. I am grateful to you for that.
We are going to attend a candlelight Christmas Eve service and then host Christmas at our house. I haven't gone to church on Christmas Eve for quite some time so I am really looking forward to it. I missed the last 2 weeks in a row because I was out of town... family holiday stuff. I felt it too... like something was missing then I realized yeah... my appt. with God. My H bought books for my DD and I called His Princess and His Little Princess... love letters from Your King. My DD and I like reading them each night.
MM... if you happen to catch this post I am so happy to hear that you and your wife are working things out. Perserverence and faith... really amazing. Merry Christmas to you too.
And Neak... don't think I forgot about you... Merry Christmas to you.
Thank all of you again for helping me find my way back to God... for right now that is the only place I really feel safe.
FBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"
Wanted to wish you a Happy New Year. So Happy New Year to you and Mrs.FH.
I have been following RLT's thread about forgiveness and in your posts you linked a thread to an old post you made when you were at the one year mark. I found that post very helpful. I don't know how to get back that far to veteran posters old threads. I want to read some of those older thread but the only way I can seem to do it is if they have it linked in a post. Is there a way to get back that far. If you do a show all users posts it takes you to the last 250 posts for the person which would be okay in the case of someone like me who has less than that many posts but for the long time vets with many many posts it might if you're lucky take you back a month or 2.
I don't know if some veterans yourself included know how valuable it is to read your old posts... why you may ask... because it gives me hope and understanding. Hope that I can make it that far and a better understanding of how many of you who have made it so far in your recoveries were once very vulnerable and unsure. For me personally it just helps to see the growth made... that you felt like you did and that you are where you are now. Hope this makes sense. If you can explain to me how to access older posts/threads I would really appreciate it.
I feel like my H and I are really only beginning our recovery and have a long way to go. We have to deal with the pre A issues. I think we have gotten past the immediate storm but there is still so much work to do.
Also I have some questions about Revelations. Do you think that the apocalypse or the end of time is going to happen literally the way it is written or is it more of a figurative description of what will happen. I have reread it several times recently and I still have a lot of questions. Would you be willing to go through some of Revelations with me? I guess I wonder if we will know it is happening... the beginning of the seals... the plagues etc. or is it possible that some of this is or has already happened? I don't know why Revelations scares me so much but it really does. I guess part of my fear stems from not feeling like I really understand whether or not it is more of a literal or figurative thing.
Thanks again FH for all your help these last few months.
MM and Neak... Happy New Year to you both as well.
MM here is wishing that 2007 brings you and Mrs.MM a renewed committment and a real chance at rebuilding your M.
God has given me a lot to be thankful for this last year... and a renewed faith without which I don't know where I'd be.
If you can explain to me how to access older posts/threads I would really appreciate it.
Okay, there is no "easy way" to do what you want to do, but you can use the system to "get you close" and then you can narrow down a search.
I keep a file of URL addresses to posts that I want to keep handy or that I have found helpful to a given topic in a Word File on my computer, so I can access them quickly or put them into a post as needed.
Anyway, here is how you narrow down a search for "old posters" and/or "old threads."
Go to the Search page. I you have a particular Word or Phrase that you want to focus the search on, then add that in the search box "Search for ...."
Type in the name of the Member you are searching for if you want to search by name.
In the Search Dates boxes, think "backwards." "Newer than" 5 years, for example, says all posts "back to 5 years ago." "Older than" is where you limit to older posts, i.e., "Older than" 4 years ago. You can further cut down on the number of posts by searching a particular forum rather than the entire site. You can select "Recovery," General Questions II," "Just Found Out," etc.
After that you will have to search throught Search Results to find threads that meet what you are looking for, because they will all contain the Search Word or Phrase that you began with.
Hope that helps.
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Would you be willing to go through some of Revelations with me?
Yes.
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I guess I wonder if we will know it is happening... the beginning of the seals... the plagues etc. or is it possible that some of this is or has already happened?
No, I don't personally think that this has happened yet, but yes, believers will know when it begins, if they have their eyes on God and not the world.
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I don't know why Revelations scares me so much but it really does. I guess part of my fear stems from not feeling like I really understand whether or not it is more of a literal or figurative thing.
It is quite literal, the second coming of Christ and the end of the world is real. THAT is why it seems "scary" to a lot of people. There IS an end and there IS a Judge....and it's not us. And the "patience of God" HAS an end, our "affair with the world" will be our choosing in the sense of "turning to God" or believing the lie.
THAT is one of the reasons so many on MB don't like to talk about or consider ABSOLUTE standards that are established by GOD, and not "picked and chosen by the desires of self."
What, then, IS the "fear" about Revelations? It is that there IS an end. "All things DO NOT continue on as they have from the foundations of the world."
We WILL see an end to our life on Earth, and for those not "in Christ," that is the shared fate of all of us. The difference lies in what is "beyond death." The difference lies in WHO IS "in control." The difference is we all have "someone" we ultimtely have to "answer to." The difference is do we answer on our own or with Him who sits on the horse of Revelation?
God exists or God doesn't exist. Jesus IS or Jesus isn't the ONLY way to be saved and reconciled to God so that our eternity is WITH or without God.
We have until the "appointed hour" to CHOOSE. The "appointed hour" is our death, either before, during, or after the Tribulation. But choose we must and choose we do, one way or the other.
Sorry for the long delay. Part of it was due to me getting the flu... uggh I haven't felt that sick for a very long time.
The other part wasn't really something I got until I read a reply from LA regarding my feelings of resentment. One thing she helped me to see is that my resentment is eroding me... even affecting my R with God. Wow... I wasn't sure what was happening there but when she said that it really resonated and I see how it is true. My anger is okay but because I turn it inward... it becomes resentment and she was right when she said I might have well have poured cement over my feet because it is keeping me stuck.
What I realize now is that all the displaced anger towards the FOW made me feel safe because it protected me (well I thought it was protecting me) from the person I am really angry with my H. It is a lot easier to focus on being mad at her, blaming her etc. because there is little risk involved there. She absolutely doesn't care about how I feel so being mad at her is safe. Allowing myself to see the truth that I am disappointed, upset, angry, etc. at my H for the A is so much riskier. If I share that with him... gulp he might get angry and leave me. Wow... a pretty big DJ to him considering that his actions don't match that he would. Just my fear... and facing that I am going to be okay no matter how this things shakes out in the end and being okay with not knowing. Hard for me but necessary.
Understanding how my own resentment is really affecting me is crucial to me healing and heading toward any real recovery. I need God... and my resentment is blocking me from feeling His love and His peace.
I am reading a couple of books right now... I didn't finish Total Forgiveness... I think in my resentment I chose to stop reading it... even though the message of the book is something I choose now to believe will really benefit my progress. In all honesty, I felt so much resentment that I didn't want to keep reading because it was about how to stop feeling that and I guess a part of me just wasn't ready to give that up yet... like entitlement to my resentment... certainly not Christ's way. I see it now and I am going to really work on getting through it.
I can say that I clearly see that holding on to this resentment is very self destructive to me personally as well as the M.
Please pray for me to find the strength to let go of this, get to the bottom of what it is really about (and I think it way deeper than just the A) and choose to allow God to help me find the tools to heal this in me.
You know I am slow enough already, moving at the speed of molasses in January (maybe because it is January), but I guess God must have wanted me to really study the moral and ceremonial laws. This is the third time that I have gotten all the way through with my notes. The first two times, my notes went missing out of my Bible before I got this typed up.
I'm not an expert now or anything, but I sure learned more about the 2 laws than I had ever known or heard before. As always, God's plan is beautiful!
So quick, before I somehow lose it again....... *******************************************************************
THE TWO LAWS
God gave man two beautiful and intricate sets of law, which we often call the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law. One law showcased the glory of God’s character, and one was a 3-D explanation of the plan of salvation, from start to finish. It is fascinating to place the two laws side by side, since they are a contrast in almost every way.
To start back at the beginning, the Sabbath was given to man in his perfection, from the very first week of Creation.
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Genesis 2 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
It would be impossible to even imagine a shiny new world, fresh from God’s hand, in which any of the other nine commandments were broken, either. Children fighting over the fruit from the Tree of Life, Adam cheating on Eve (with their daughter), the Gihon River running red with blood…….unthinkable.
The Ceremonial Law was not introduced until after sin, though God did not lay it out in its full detail until Sinai.
Cain and Abel offered sacrifices. Genesis 4:3-8 Noah offered burnt offerings. Genesis 8:20 Abraham was told to circumcise all males of his household, as an outward sign of the covenant with God. Genesis 17:9-14 Abraham also continued the ritual of burnt offerings. Genesis 22:13 Jacob offered a drink offering. Genesis 35:14 Moses asked Pharaoh to allow the Israelites to offer sacrifices in the wilderness. Exodus 3:18 Moses disobedience (which I am guessing was deliberate) in failing to circumcise his sons nearly cost him his life. Genesis 4:24-26 The Passover Feast was instituted before Sinai, and although it looked back on the deliverance from the Egyptians, even more it looked forward to the day when our Sacrifice would offer His own blood to protect us from eternal death. Exodus 12:43-51, 1 Corinthians 5:7 The day the Lord called the people out of Egypt, He also instituted the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Exodus 13:3-10 The law concerning the consecration of the firstborn was also given at that time. Exodus 13:11-16 At last we arrive at Sinai, and one of the few similarities between the two laws: God spoke them both.
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Exodus 20 1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 "I am the LORD thy God, who have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; for I, the LORD thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
6 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
7 "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.
8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work;
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 "Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 "Thou shalt not kill.
14 "Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 "Thou shalt not steal.
16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
17 "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his [censored], nor anything that is thy neighbor's."
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Exodus 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel: `Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
Concluding a long list of ceremonial requirements, God finished by saying,
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Exodus 31:11 …and the anointing oil and sweet incense for the holy place. According to all that I have commanded thee shall they do.
After He finished speaking both laws, God wrote the Moral Law with His own finger. Actually, He wrote it twice, after Moses threw down the first set of stone tablets as a symbol that the people had already broken their covenant with God.
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Exodus 31:18 And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tablets of testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
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Exodus 32 15 And Moses turned and went down from the mount, and the two tablets of the testimony were in his hand. The tablets were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. 16 And the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tablets.
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Exodus 34 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Hew thee two tablets of stone like unto the first, and I will write upon these tablets the words that were in the first tablets which thou brokest.
2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto Mount Sinai, and present thyself there to Me on the top of the mount.
3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount."
4 And he hewed two tablets of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning and went up unto Mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tablets of stone.
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Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Just to make sure there is no mistake as to exactly what was written on the stone tablets by God’s finger, and that the Sabbath commandment was included, Moses gave this as part of a speech to the children of Israel shortly before his death.
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Deuteronomy 5 1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire
5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time to show you the word of the LORD, for ye were afraid by reason of the fire and went not up into the mount), saying:
6 "`I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 "`Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth.
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the LORD thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
10 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
11 "`Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.
12 "`Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labor and do all thy work,
14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine [censored], nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm; therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.
16 "`Honor thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee, that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
17 "`Thou shalt not kill.
18 "`Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 "`Neither shalt thou steal.
20 "`Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
21 "`Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his [censored], or any thing that is thy neighbor's.'
22 "These words the LORD spoke unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone, and delivered them unto me.
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Deuteronomy 9 9 When I had gone up into the mount to receive the tablets of stone, even the tablets of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode on the mount forty days and forty nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water.
10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them was written according to all the words which the LORD spoke with you on the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.
But on the other hand, the ceremonial law was simply written later by Moses. The following quote is directly following a portion of the Ceremonial Law in Exodus 34:10-26, among other things regarding firstfruits and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
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Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Write thou these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel."
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Exodus 24 3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments; and all the people answered with one voice and said, "All the words which the LORD hath said will we do."
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning and built an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
The tablets of the Moral Law were called the Testimony, according to numerous passages by Moses. You can look up more – I am only going to put two for now.
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Exodus 31:18 And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tablets of testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
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Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him.
The Ceremonial Law was referred to as the Book of the Covenant, or Book of the Law. (Starting from one of the verses we just read.)
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Exodus 24 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning and built an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
6 And Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
7 And he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the audience of the people; and they said, "All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient."
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Deuteronomy 30 9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good. For the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as He rejoiced over thy fathers,
10 if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul.
The treatment of the two laws was very different, as well. The two tablets of the Testimony, the Moral Law, which included the seventh-day Sabbath commandment, were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, beneath the Mercy Seat, upon which rested the very presence of God, the Shekinah glory. And it is very true that God’s glory rests upon His Law; it’s fairness, truth, and beauty.
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Deuteronomy 10 1 "At that time the LORD said unto me, `Hew thee two tablets of stone like unto the first, and come up unto Me onto the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
2 And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which thou didst break, and thou shalt put them in the ark.'
3 And I made an ark of [censored] wood and hewed two tablets of stone like unto the first, and went up onto the mount, having the two tablets in mine hand.
4 And He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the LORD spoke unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them unto me.
5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me."
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Exodus 40:20 And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark.
The Ceremonial Law was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant – still important, and not to be ignored, but not the foundation of the heavenly government, either. This passage from Deuteronomy 31 directly follows a restating of many of the ceremonial laws, in Deuteronomy chapters 6-31.
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Deuteronomy 31 25 …that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 "Take this Book of the Law and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee;
27 for I know thy rebellion and thy stiff neck. Behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD. And how much more after my death?
28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you. And evil will befall you in the latter days, because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands."
The Ceremonial Law was done away with at the death of Jesus. Paul makes that crystal clear.
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Colossians 2 10 And ye are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power,
11 and in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.
12 Ye are buried with Him in baptism, wherein ye also are risen with Him through the faith wrought by the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us. He took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;
15 and having despoiled principalities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or drink, or in respect to a holy day or the new moon or the Sabbath days,
17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
So the Ceremonial Law, the handwriting of ordinances was: *Against us – contrary to us *Taken out of the way *Nailed to the cross It does not apply to us any more. We can still study it, we can still learn from it, but we do not have to keep it any longer.
Especially notice verses 16 and 17. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat or drink, or in respect to a holy day or the new moon or the Sabbath days” (most Sunday pastors end their quotation here) “WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, but the body is of Christ.”
No one is to judge us for not keeping any feast, or any of the Sabbaths that were a shadow of things to come, but if you look at everything we have studied so far, the seventh day Sabbath was not in that category. It was not in the handwriting of ordinances – it was written by God’s finger in stone. It was not placed beside the Ark with the other temporary laws – it was set gently beneath the Mercy Seat. It was not a shadow of anything to come, but an arrow pointing back to Creation.
The same would apply in the often-debated passage in Romans 14, which talks about not judging regarding the keeping of one day versus another, or eating and drinking a certain way, and yet avoiding being a stumbling block to others, either.
The Ceremonial Law was “ready to vanish away” by the time Paul wrote his letters to the churches. He even went so far as to say it was decaying!
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Hebrews 8 6 But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, He saith, "Behold, the days come," saith the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people.
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
13 In that He saith "a new covenant," He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
And yet Paul himself wrote about the Moral Law,
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Romans 7 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid! But sin, that it might appear as sin, was working death in me by that which is good, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.
1 5For that which I do, I know not. For what I would do, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law, that it is good.
*The law is holy. *The commandment is holy and just and good. *The law is spiritual. *The law is good.
The Ceremonial Law is just not enough.
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Hebrews 10 1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
And that is why the Ceremonial Law was necessary for its time, but also why it had to be done away with. It was only a shadow…..a reminder.
We needed something better than the blood of bulls, goats, and rams to save us. We needed Jesus to come, to fulfill the Ceremonial Law, and then to replace it with His own sacrifice.
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Hebrews 10 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
There is still a Law that needs to be kept – not the law of shadows that was done away with at the cross – it is a Law that the Lord Himself promises to write in our hearts. Now we, ourselves, enter into the Holy of Holies, the very presence of God, through the blood of Jesus.
That is why the law, the Moral Law, no longer condemns us. We are under grace because we keep it. And we don’t just keep it by our actions – it’s written in our hearts.
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James 1 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
The perfect law of liberty….not a shadow, not a decaying, old law which is against us……the perfect law of liberty, is what God wants to write in our hearts.
What a blessing waits for us if we, by God’s grace, will obey that perfect law, and continue in it always!
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner. ~ English proverb
I wanted to apologize to you for not responding to your JJ How are you? thread here. I violated my boundary for posting to you outside of this thread.
This is our thread to post to each other on. I don't believe we need a new one. This thread contains all of the discussion about whether or not I should or shouldn't be here already. No need to repeat. People's POV's are strongly stated already here. No need to rehash them elsewhere... just my belief.
You have a choice as to whether you wish to continue here on this thread with me or not. I will respect whatever your choice is.
To anyone else reading this... I violated my own posting boundary by posting to FH outside of this thread. I will not do it again. I apologize to all of you for that. I stepped over my own boundary by replying there instead of here. I see that now.
You have a choice as to whether you wish to continue here on this thread with me or not. I will respect whatever your choice is.
JJ, my continuing to talk with you has never been an issue. If you want to continue on this thread, I am fine with that. If you want to start on on the General Discussion forum, under Other Topics, that's fine too.
JJ, my continuing to talk with you has never been an issue. If you want to continue on this thread, I am fine with that. If you want to start on on the General Discussion forum, under Other Topics, that's fine too.
Okay~ then let's stay here because this is the thread that MM originally started for me... and because my situation is clearly defined in this thread. The divided POV's are also clearly stated here so if by some off chance that someone unfamilar with my situation did come into this thread they would have access to the whole of this thread.
It is also for me a boundary enforcement. I will in the future post here and to villagers (LA's thread which I asked her permission to join and also a thread where my situation is clearly defined as well.)
On occasion I will post outside as was the case when LA's mom died or when MM announced his reunion with his wife and their subsequent pregnacy. Small posts to a specific poster on topic specifically to the poster who already knows my situation.
I did violate my boundary when I posted outside JJBA and Villagers to a man who stated he was the BS and was now the WS. I did feel compelled to post to that person... but I also didn't enforce my own boundary in doing so, so I don't think I will likely do it again because there are plenty of others members here who can and will take on those threads.
So it is my boundary to stick to the two threads I stated above.
We are again attending church weekly. The first week we went back... when we were leaving we saw Hassle's (FOW) XH and their kids. We always sit in the front row so we don't usually notice who else is there. I don't know if he saw us or not.
DD had forgotten something in the children's room and so she and I went back in to retrieve her stuffed animal. We walked out on the far side so that we wouldn't have to walk right past him. I don't know if this was the right thing to do or not. He's is catholic so I am not sure when or why he started attending our church. When H was still in contact with him he had mentioned that he was thinking of attending. H did not encourage him to go here. He didn't discourage him either, just didn't offer and invitation like, "Hey that's great why don't you sit with us."
Since I don't know what Hassle's XH's intent is for attending this church, I am trying hard not to DJ him with possible speculation as to whether I think he is there to worship God, or whether he is there to try to reestablish contact and a R with my H. I can only pray that his intent is to worship God and that he respects our boundary to not have contact with him.
My H has started reading the bible regularly. He had been reading mostly devotionals and that kind of study guides. He is actually taking his bible and reading on his lunch hour at work as well as at home. Hassle passed by his room and sarcastically said to him..."So what, you read the bible now too?" My H replied yes that he did. She walked away. They will not be working at the same site next year as her position has been eliminated for next year and she will be placed elsewhere. My H has committed to not working at the same site with her next year under any circumstance and God has provided for us here.
I ran into Hassle at the grocery store last week. I was checking out at the register and she was coming in getting her cart. She was with one of her DD's who saw me. I don't know if Hassle saw me or not. We did not make eye contact. I had expected that I would feel much differently if I saw her. To me she looked very weary... haggered almost. I don't mean this as a DJ to her. I mean she looked burden by her life choices. Instead of feeling like YUCK there's Hassle... I felt like Oh, there's Hassle. I didn't feel panicked or full of anger and animosity.
I believe what I felt when I saw her was more akin to... she is just a person... just as real as me. She is on her own life path... which no longer has to do with my life path. I don't know if what I felt was compassion, but I do think it was what I had been struggling with before here... regarding forgiveness. I believe I have come to my forgiveness for her, in that I am able to let it go. I had no desire to speak to her. I don't wish to be her friend or have contact with her... just that what I thought would happen if I ever saw her was not what I thought I would feel. I hope this makes sense.
Saturday's sermon was good. It was about how everyone's faith gets shaken from time to time. Even the disciples doubted after He was risen. Even when Jesus told Thomas, [color:"red"] [/color] "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my into my side. Stop doubting and believe." [color:"red"] [/color] John 20:26-27
The sermon went on to say that we deal with out doubts differently. Some go looking. We doubt our abilities and so go looking. Some go running. We run from issues... faster and faster as if by running we can get away from them. Some go walking. Trying to put distance between themselves and their doubt. After Jesus died and was risen, two of his followers walked away from Jerusalem to Emmaus. And some go hiding. They lock the door because they are afraid. They hid because they were afraid that if they crucified Jesus, then they might also crucify them.
The message of the sermon went on to say the following:
To those that are looking... Jesus wants to meet us with a message of hope.
To those that are walking... Jesus wants to walk with us on a walk of faith and away from the route of doubt.
To those that are hiding... Jesus wants to meet us right where we are. There isn't a need to hide because He already knows where we are... in every way.
And to those who are hiding... Jesus waits for us to stop running. To be still and KNOW.
Do ya think maybe I have been doing all of these things to some degree lately...looking, walking, running, hiding? I do.
I have felt spiritually blocked lately so this was sermon~message was good for me to hear. It was important for me to understand that ALL of us... even Jesus' own disciples faith was shaken and they experienced doubt. Another lesson to me as to why I need to reguraly go to church... so I am reminded that I am not alone in my feelings and how going helps me to get unblocked. I cannot do this alone. I need other believers.
Goes back to that brick wall I keep hitting my head on.
I can choose to keep hitting it. OR I can choose to be aware that the wall is there... and KNOW that Jesus can lead me around the wall, carry me over the wall, or smash the dang brick wall down if HE wants to.
When I continue to try to do things on my own I keep hitting the brick wall over and over. I see this now.
There is still a Law that needs to be kept – not the law of shadows that was done away with at the cross – it is a Law that the Lord Himself promises to write in our hearts. Now we, ourselves, enter into the Holy of Holies, the very presence of God, through the blood of Jesus.
That is why the law, the Moral Law, no longer condemns us. We are under grace because we keep it. And we don’t just keep it by our actions – it’s written in our hearts.
I am bit confused by which laws were done away with and which we are still to keep. I believe we are still to obey the 10 commandments... isn't this law we are still supposed to obey?
I guess my questions have to do with specifically which laws are done away with and which we are still to obey. Can you clarify your belief about this for me?
stRIviN... see I like this name change because RIN is still in your new name. You are new and changing but you take you with you even in this new name. Hope that makes sense.
Interesting about smoothing out. My wishful child longs for smooth sailing all the time. False security in that for me. Lulls me into the false security that there aren't rough waters out there. If I get lulled into smooth sailing then I don't put on my life vest knowing that even in the smoothest of waters there is a dangerous undertow... current that can pull us out where we can be drown if we choose to believe that smooth waters are always safe waters.
My adult is aware that I am safe in all waters.
This is me learning that I am safe in rough seas, calm seas, and being aware of when my old patterns put me in danger of false sense of security. Hope this makes sense.
I see you following your code... and enforcing your boundaries. You look good in your code.
I am bit confused by which laws were done away with and which we are still to keep. I believe we are still to obey the 10 commandments... isn't this law we are still supposed to obey?
I guess my questions have to do with specifically which laws are done away with and which we are still to obey. Can you clarify your belief about this for me?
Jilly, Neak will respond to your questions, but I thought I'd toss in my response for you to consider too.
None of the Laws are "done away with." They were fulfilled by Christ.
The Law was designed to "convict" men of sin, to make it clear not only the high standards of God and what followers of God should do out of love and obedience, but to make it clear that ALL have sinned and were in need of a Savior. If you "broke" one of the commandments it was the same as breaking them all. It pointed to God as our Savior and to God as the only one who could provide salvation for us, which Jesus did by not sinning and giving his life in sacrifice of all of our sins.
If effect, God's Laws were written in stone back then, and now they are written in our hearts. Sin still exists, we still sin, but Christ takes away our sin, through His perfect sacrifice in our place.
There is an interesting study that I am currently doing that you might find interesting if you ever want to look into it yourself. It concerns the Book Of Life and the Lambs Book of Life.
None of the Laws are "done away with." They were fulfilled by Christ.
Do you mean that because none of us could be sinless ever then Christ who could be died to bear the weight of our sins because we couldn't?
I mean I thought that was why God sent his son to pay for our sins... to save us because we cannot save ourselves.
I am still utterly confused by biblical laws. If the laws weren't changed aren't we still at least supposed to try to follow them? Even though we are going to sin... aren't we at least to try to stop? I don't think we will lose our salvation for sinning. Otherwise... could any of us ever be saved?
I think this has something to do with the process of sanctification... that because we love the Lord that we try with all our heart to become more like him.
But I get really confused about the different laws. OT versus NT etc.
For example, as you know I was raised SDA. I was raised to believe that you worship on Saturday. From sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday. That is how I was raised.
I was raised to believe that it was wrong to eat certain foods. There was no drinking or smoking and obviously no drugs...recreational I mean.
I don't drink alcohol at all... period. But it isn't for religious reasons... it is for personal reasons. I don't like it. My choice. I know lots of Christians who do drink and I don't think they're going to lose their salvation over it. But I don't know that for sure.
I was raised to believe that I shouldn't wear jewelry. I know why... where in scripture that came from. It's OT law. But I wear jewelry. I don't think I am going to lose my salvation over it.
Here is where it gets questionable for me... say a person drinks... they have a serious drinking problem and for them alcohol becomes a God they worship... if that is possible to worship drinking or whatever addiction issue it may be. Could a person LOSE their eternal salvation?
I recently learned of a term called OSAS. I had never even heard of it but when I looked it up there seems to be much debate over it. I have no idea how I believe about this concept of OSAS.
Say a person was baptized at age 12 or so. Then later they turned away from God and their faith and basically stopped living a Christian lifestyle. What happens to this person... I am very serious about this question and I am not asking it flippantly at all. What happens when a once believer stops living the life of a believer?
Why are there so many different branches of Christianity? So many different denominations... some believing that they are in fact the remnant church or the one true faith?
If the bible is the word of God... and I believe it is... then why are there so many disagreements between Christians as to its meaning?
I have a lot of questions still... these are just a few.
Please try to help me understand this. I want to stay on track and grow in my relationship with Christ.
