FH...

This post of yours to Mr. W really bothered and surprised me...In all honesty MORE than the attack of me by the newbie...The newbie that, btw, used the word "unregenerate" in his descriptions of those that don't agree with the ones he agrees with...You chose to let his "judgement" and "slander" go, but instead decided to chide Mr. W in his defense of me...You know Mr. W already has a daddy and really doesn't need to be "spanked" for his choice of words to OTHERS...

And to the NEWBIE...

As a FWS posting here, I expect that some will choose to use my past sins against me...part of my consequences I think...Kinda "the cost of doing business" around here as well...But for the record, I HAVE repented, turned from my sin of adultery and am NOT in a marriage born of an affair...Have a nice day...

To my dear friends that spoke out in my defense, a genuine thank you...Jayban, Pepperband, Mortarman and newbeginnings that meant a lot...

And Mr. W, well, you already know all of my feelings on this...Thank you so much My Love...

This thread makes my soul scream...I am so grateful that I did not read this or anything like it upon my foggy arrival at MB...I shudder to think what my wayward mind would have discerned from something of it's nature...

Mrs. W

We are not given eyewitness testimony FH... it is hearsay... handed down not through verifiable means or anything that can be looked at like a court transcript.

FH... there is much from history that has been handed down that is blatantly false... and I mean history that is only decades old.

So, no... I don't have and have never seen an proof that there is more to it than that... I have faith that there is.

MEDC

MEDC,

Why then do you have faith in something that cannot be proven?
Why do any of us?

Right..so do you think he was struggling against the flesh or against the spirit?

He says he struggled with his flesh.

Lots of good points on both sides here. This thread is probaly going to surpass the # of replies to LilSis(LOL).

FH(et all), I posted something a few pages back that you have not replied to. I also noticed you didn't have a lot ot time to do so(LOL), but if you have a chance;

My contention and focus all along here was focused on what it takes to be forgiven by Christ, and not on the "works" issue. For the record, I agree with you on that and have never really disagreed with that notion.You seem to inject "works" as opposed to penitance everytime I bring this subject up. Did you know you do that?

My question remains, What does it take to be forgiven of sin? My contention has always been that we must have a contrite heart and be repentant, but, also a professed resolve not to commit that sin again. If I were repentant and confessed my sin to God, and ended that by saying,"BTW I fully intend to go out this afternoon and commit this sin again," would I be forgiven by Christ.

Why did he tell his diciples, "who soever sins you shall retained will be retained in heaven?"

Does this not imply that in spite of repentance, sins may be retained if not a resolve to turn away from that sin?

I am curious, not combatant here, in asking this Q.

I remain open hearted.

All Blessings,
Jerry

[color:"red"] H W [/color]



everything .... from my perspective

to me .... the BIG PICTURE here is this ...

speaking generally, and not specifically about you

Person A does something deliberately wrong to Person B

and gains benefits from doing this wrong thing to Person B

I will call the ill-gotten gains "booty"

a big discussion ensues about right/wrong ... and just what does one ~do with~ the booty obtained by wronging Person B?

then along comes Person C who stands up to champion Person A

Person C emphasizes that Person A has realized their error, has changed their ways ...

all well and good ~~~> but what about the booty?

and then it comes to light that

Person C has taken on the role of champion as a way to assuage their own history with booty

.... everything

Now speaking specifically of you HW ... you stole something from me that you cannot return... your husband is defending a woman who also stole something that she cannot return...

I think it is not coincidental that your husband made THIS thread his first MB effort....

I forgive you HW ... you betrayed my trust and I forgive you. That is our history. Cannot be undone.

Right....and sometimes his flesh ruled him...ok so then it was willful disobedience, no way around that. But it is an ongoing struggle, one which we are never finished with on earth, so is it a stretch to say we are in a constant state of willful, disobedient, sin? And does that then mean we must not really be saved, as we thought?

Well I'd have to say that it depends on whether he STAYED with his flesh or rejected it in favor of spirit and obediance.

If he stayed with his flesh and rejected the spirit...then it is ENTIRELY plausable that he either was not saved truly or lost his salvation depending on which camp you fall into in the osas issue.

It's possible that in one area, he (or I, or anyone) allowed the spirit to win over the flesh, and then had another struggle to contend with the next day, week, month, or whatever.
Or maybe a year later, he's back to struggling with the same thing all over again.

If it could be proven I wouldn't need faith... I would have fact.
I have faith because my heart and my spirit have been moved by the Living God.

another affair M in trouble on Mmarc57 thread. I wish these people would just go away.

FH - I have NEVER said this. EVER. I HAVE said I do not KNOW what JJ's state is before the Lord and that is true. I don't know ANYONE's STATE before the Lord - not even yours. I only know where I stand before Him.

I do believe we are justified by faith FH. I also believe that "faith without works is dead." It isn't works that justifies us. BUT works PROVE we have that faith.

So WHILE our works DON'T save us, according to Jesus's own words, those 2 groups of people were separated on the basis of what they DID and DIDN'T DO. No ambiguity there.

So it is somewhat of a mystery isn't it - we don't have ALL the answers (at least I sure don't) Because although scripture appears to be in conflict with it self, clearly it IS NOT.

Now you keep telling me here what I must believe but you really don't know what I believe - suffice to say that I am most probably as orthodox in my beliefs as you are and I also wear the ""fundamentalist" tag happily.

JustJully has done NOTHING to me - why would you assume I should forgive her - forgive her for WHAT???? I am confused.


Well this is in essence the whole crux of it isn't it. You contend that people should just ignore her if they are offended. Never mind that WS's feel enabled by her, never mind the damage done to people seeking help. It's all about JustJilly's "right" to flout her "prize" in front of the vulnerable isn't it.

No consideration by either you or her to not cause others to stumble. No consideration of a brother not causing a brother to stumble - or have you conveniently removed those passages from your Bible?

Frankly, I am persuaded as are many others that an "affair marriage" is wrong. That is my opinion and I'm in good company as many scholars would agree with me. I might be wrong FH - you might be right. But either way, the pain you and she are perpetrating in undeniable.

To be crystal clear here FH _ I have never stated this nor is that my position.


The thing is FH - we are not going to solve this difference of opinion. Bible scholars have taken different positions on this matter for centuries. The calvinist and armenian positions. You are also totally impervious to discussion and are not likely to be persuaded by anything I or anyone else say - so what is the point FH? As I have stated before, I don't see MB as the place for such discussions anyway and any other forum is simply a waste of my time and energy.

You yourself have even admitted that OSAS is an issue where Christians sincerely disagree - you then go onto arrogantly state that only you are capable of discerning the correct answer from scripture but the reality is there are 2 positions SUPPORTED by scripture.

Yes only one can be right.

But at the end of the day as long as we abide in Christ it won't matter a row of beans who is right or wrong will it?

Ah I see. I am to be judged by you on the basis of people who agree with me. How very interesting.

Patriot - definitely not. Scripture is clear there is only one unforgivable sin and this is not it.

MM there's a world of difference between this and the legitimisation of an affair marriage. I don't see any BS getting upset with a WS being corrected on this forum. But legitimising an affair marriage is a whole other proposition.

MEDC - there's a really good book by a Lawyer called Frank Morrison - he was an athiest and set out to disprove the resurrection. Ended up being converted by the evidence he found. It's a good read called "Who moved the stone?"

And for the record I agree totally with FH on this subject.

Mrs. W - You are correct. The "newbie's" statement to you was equally "out of bounds" and you, in my humble opinion, are also due an apology from him for his choice of words and DJ toward you.

I do not like ad homimem attacks of any kind. Attack the message, but not the messenger, is the best course. Even though I myself have "forgotten that" from time to time. "Trolls," as in TOW types, for example. It is still wrong and is something that I have endeavored to avoid in this latest round of "opposing viewpoints."

I stand appropriately rebuked and ask your, and Mr. W's, forgiveness for not including both comments.

And so I sit in wait,,,,, and wait,,,,, and wait

I had a friend who ownded a body shop, and had a tee shirt that he wore all the time;

It stated: service while you wait...
and wait.....
and wait....
Sorry, just a little attempt at humor on such a seroius thread.

All Blessings,
Jerry