Tell her no but I paid dearly for letting my FWW make moving the only thing that would make her happy. I paid dearly for not saying she was making a selfish demand and not a request or even considering using POJA.

Is she fixated on one spot or place to live?

I mean if you suggested moving within 3 hours of your MIL in another place then the one she has in mind would she agree?

Or is it one specific place?

Deep down I think she would like to live in the city that her mom does.
But, she claims that even if we moved to a town that was only a few hours from her, that would be good enough.

However, with the industry I am in, that gives me all of about 5 possible places to work.
5 out of the 5 do not have job openings.
4 out of the 5 i wouldnt work for anyway.
So that leaves 1 possibilty. And that is for the manager of that 5th facilty to quit or be fired to create an opening. Ironically, I know the person managing the mill, he used to be my boss at the mill I am at now. I am infact his replacement.

When I tell my wife this, she just tells me that I am capable of managing anything and should look at things outside the industry ive been in for 10 yeras.

sheesh

LOL. My FWW said the same thing. Unfortunately most companies do like to hire someone with specific industry knowledge.

I have been through it all with my industry. It has been up and down and one thing I have noticed when I put my resume out there I usually only get calls from my industry.

I have sent resume's to other companies. I have a strong track record but so far I haven't had any luck unless of course I want to start from the ground up and make less and hope the chips fall into place to get back to where I once was. LOL.

Sometimes you luck out at a job and are in the right place at the right time. I have worked at places where the managers were far less capable then many of their employees but they were there when the promotion was available and were the best at the time.

Not saying they were horrible managers but there were more qualified people underneath them. They are never going to leave so upward mobility becomes impossible.

I learned my lesson I took a step back because I wanted to leave my company but there was nothing really available.

I haven't been able to get back to where I was. I make more money though so it all evens out.

The POJA...
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse.......

What if my spouse doesn't care if I am enthusiastic about moving in the first place?
If I were to tell her that since we are not both enthusiastic about moving we shouldn't move and should deal with it another way, she would just look at me and tell me that she is not "enthusiastically" going to agree to stay where we are.

What do I do then?

Based on the fact that
#1 i dont want to move,
#2 there is no opportunity to move and I personally know there there is little to no chance of there ever being a possibility

what should I do? should I try to tell her that it is just never going to happen because I dont want to move? or should I say it wont happen cause theres just no jobs out there?
or that it wont happen because both i dont want to move and there is no jobs anyway...

or, do I entertain the possibility of moving to keep her happy ?

Do I just stand firm by saying Im not moving and continuesouly explain why over and over?

That my friend is the predicament.

Read up on Selfish Demands.

I realized the reason we couldn't POJA because you cannot POJA on a selfish demand.

I told my FWW that this whole mess was a self fullfilling prophecy on her part.

Her statment of truth- I will never be happy here.

What happened- Every thing that ever went wrong would not have happened if we lived there.

If it was really hot here she would say god that's why I hate it here. Well take a look at the whether report honey it is hotter there and it is very humid. They actually are in the middle of a hugh black out.

Well at least I would be around my family.

If there was a blizzard there she would say she misses the snow. UMM honey you rember when we were in Denver and you said "God I hate this cold whether I wish we were back in California". You stayed in and I had to shovel your and my car out of the snow. You hated the fact you couldn't take our son outside because of the cold. He hated it too.

Well it is different now. I don't mind the cold.

Really we went out last week and it was 65 and you were complaining about how cold it was.

Well at least I would be around my family.

With a selfish demand the person making it will find every reason to justify their demand and dismiss anything that goes against what they want to do.

In other words they will make your life so miserable that moving can only make things better.

There is no POJA on a selfish demand. Sorry.

So if POJA is out, what then?

I want to be prepared for the next time this issue comes up... as I am tired of going through it over and over.

btw:
she has also said she will never be happy here, and I beleive that she thinks that. But I also beleive that it is her selfishness that makes her feel that way.

ps: where can i read up on selfish demands?

Lang,

See I have been through this before and IMHO it is what eventually caused my FWW's A.

Not only that she felt justified in doing so and has basically had an attitude like she has nothing to make up for because I didn't move back.

One time she actually said to me the A would have never happened if we would have just moved back like she wanted.

I personally found nothing worked to talk her out of it. She just punished me for not going back. She grew a sense of entitlement that became out of control. If she wanted to spend 1k on herself she was entitled to it because "I am giving up enough just to be here" "I have sacraficed everything to be with you". No further sacrafices were necessary.

To be honest what I wish I would have done is gotten a D back then or at least a separation.

In my state fathers have good rights. If we got a D I would get significant visitation. Enough visitation for it to be impossible for her to move back to NY.

I wish I would have said you are not happy here and you are doing everything within your power to make that statment a truth. You see and smell a beutiful rose but it would be a better rose in NY. There is something wrong with that idealization.

Next time it happens prepare to be the bad guy. That is all you can prepare for.

If she is willing to do this and make everyone else sacrafice for what she wants do you really think there is anything you can say to change her mind?

I wish I would have stood my ground and said "then leave me and go back on your own"

I am not going to be bullied and manipulated into filling your selfish demand.

Then when she said I moved here for you I wish I would have said "The difference was you came on your own free will, I don't think you would have moved here if I bullied you and tried to manipulate you into doing it."

Finally I wish I would have said fine "I will move back if we get a post nup. One that says if we get a D because of this move I get to take the kids back to CA and you have to reimburse me for all expenses associated with the move." Contigent on you putting down every reason for moving back there. If they do not come to fruition I get to leave and you have to pay me back. Including my loss of income for taking a step back in my career.

I am sorry but I am not burger king you cannot always have it your way.

remind me again hurtingless,
where is your marriage out right now? is it over? still woking on it.. where are the kids?

I am still in California.

I am still working on my M.

The kids are with both of us.

But again I want to tell you that all of the carnage that this has caused has really had a very negative impact on my life.

It is very hard to go to work to support your family, be a good H, and a good father only to feel very unappreciated.

You know during this time my FWW would always tell me how lucky she was because I was such a great H. She would talk to her friends and hear how their H's were and come home and thank me.

Two days later though when the topic came up I was not a good H.

No matter what I did it just wasn't going to be enough unless I moved.

You see what I realized is that her Love Bank would never be full or in the positive because no matter what I deposited it was counted against the withdraws of not being in NY.

Mean while my LB was low because she wasn't making deposts because her LB was always low.

You mentioned that your W finally came to the point and said that wanting to move to NY was a bad idea correct?

Do you beleive she really beleives that? and have you seen/noticed it in the way she acts?

or is everything still cloudy?

Is it fair to say that you are still in the same situation as you were before?

I think it is cloudy still. You see all of the points that she used as a positive other then "I would be happier" have been disproven. In other words every thing she used to make NY seem so great are gone.

Now remember I have said I truly believe her A happened because of this issue.

About two months ago it became clear she spent most of her 4 week vacation with the OM. In other words she had a choice spend time with her family and friends or him. She chose him.

Up until this discovery she still used not moving back as a justification for her unhappiness because she couldn't see her family.

The minute the truth came out it stopped. In other words she could no longer argue about how important they were or she would have to answer the simple question. If that is true why didn't you spend more time with them when you were there.

That is one of the reasons I believed she lied to me as well about the amount of time she spent with him.

If she admitted it right when she came back then we would never have had the discussions about me not moving back.

I am no longer in the same situation.

I have told her based on what has happened I am not going anywhere.

If she wants to beat me up about it then fine. At this point I will not enthusiastically agree on leaving.

So it took this much time and effort and pain to get her to finally admit(if you want to call it that) maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

What is my next step?

I cant use POJA because my wife is far too selfish with this.
I dont want to just keep puddling along.

And like hurtingless's situation, i feel my LB is empty and my W will not deposit because hers is empty due to the moving issue.

So if i dont move, i cant fix it.

There is no resolve is there?

If you do move is it fixed?

Will she agree if you move that you can treat her the way she has treated you?

Will she agree that if you move whatever less you are making financially she will make up for by working or getting a second job?

Will she agree to never spend another cent on herself unless it is an absolute necessaty so you and the kids don't have to sacrafice because of this move?

What exactly is it she will agree to if you move is the question.

If she really, really wants this what sacrafice is she willing to make?

If she is not willing to sacrafice anything how important can it be?

Sometimes I have really wondered to myself. Was it really as important as she said originally or did it become more then that.

Was it a test of my love? If he loved me he would do this? Therefore the only thing I could do is move there to prove my love.

Or maybe she liked the fact that she could use this against me anytime and get her way. Since it wasn't resolved her way then she can get her way in anything else.

When we had a disagreement if she was wrong it always escalated until she could finally say something like. I am so mad I would leave right now but I have nowhere to go because I am stuck here. LOL.

Well, if we moved, she thinks it would be fixed. But its been like that for every problem in our relationship. But each time something is fixed, something new comes up.

As far as letting me treat her the way she has treated me if we move, the answer is no. Because in her mind she is justified in the way she acts/treats me.

She would not agree to make up the finiancial difference, she would claim she couldn't.

She would never in this lifetime agree to not spend any money on herself.

She wont make any sacrifices. She feels she has made sacrifices by being here the past 7 years, and us moving would be "my turn to suffer"


Maybe I need to face the reality that I am just the one who puts food on the table and I not of any other use for my wife. Her staying with me is only because her moving away would be "inconvenient".

Seems Im answering my own questions, with hopes of finding out there is a chance for my marriage when I know deep down there isn't.

That may not be true. But you do need to figure everything out before you make that decesion.


Aha and that is the only sacrafice.

You see if you move you will now be making that sacrafice and more!!!!

Ok "I will agree to take my turn to suffer".

I will also agree to make the same sacrafice as you which is apparently living somewhere I don't want to live.

I will agree to take my turn suffering the same amount as you have suffered nothing more nothing less.

So I will be making x amount less per year. I am not willing to suffer by living there and suffer from this loss of income.

How are YOU going to make sure I don't suffer more then you?

Make more? Well she can't.

Spend less? She won't

Now as she suffered and treated you this way you were brought into her suffering right?

Well shouldn't she agree to be brought into yours. You shouldn't suffer through the next 7 years alone she didn't suffer through the last 7 years alone.

I told my FWW once that if we move and I act just like you have acted would you want to even be around me.

Then I said if I am such a bad H and you are so miserable why would you even want me to move with you. For a paycheck and stability?

Maybe instead of browbeating me and killing my self worth you showed me how much you loved me and cared for me it may have made sense.

Would anyone in their right mind move somewhere with someone that shows them this much disdain.

She had no answer other then she was miserable here and she would treat me better there.

Hard to believe a change in scenery could change a person that much.

I absolutely understand and agree with your post.

Dare I ask, why are you still trying?
Is your W changing?

Lang,

I have two kids that are 6 and 11.

My FWW was pulling this crap when my youngest was a newborn and my oldes was 4 going on 5.

Hard to just walk away from that.

Her A happened when they were 3 and 8. Again good enough reason to stay. IMHO. I love my Boys and I would hate to be a part time dad.

My W has some serious issues. I don't know if change is possible. NO DJ here so no 2x4's

To be honest I have come to the conclusion if we end up in a D I can hold my head up. So I am at peace.

I recently went into emotional detachment from her so that what she does can't harm me anymore. This seems to be helping. Who knows. LOL.

I don't want to get very personal but my FWW's childhood sucked. Gave her some issues that made Happiness and elusive target.

I noticed you said your W always finds something new that makes her happy. Been there done that.

Did something tramatic happen in her childhood?

You may want to go into recovery and read the PA thread by still making it here.

I think basically my FWW has come to the conclusion I am not moving back. I would sooner divorce her before I went back. Either way she is stuck here. She can't get enough custody to move with them.

Well i gotta run. I am sorry for your Sitch.

Just realize this makes you more of a man to be able to do what you are doing and putting up with this mess.

When my FWW had the A I was more pissed off at the fact that I should have had one a long time ago based on her justifications. LOL.

thanks H.

I have to run myself

This a good set of questions.

First, the assertion that she doesn't care if you're enthusiastic about moving...I'm not so sure about that. I DO think she would care if you were unhappy, but I think the polar positions you've taken is forcing her to "take a stand". If her not caring about your feelings is truly the issue, then that's a completely different issue to work through and has nothing to do with moving.

You have both become entrenched...convinced yourselves that you can only be enthusiastic about solving the problem a certain way.

Get outside the box. Are there other fields and industries you could work in? Work from home? I don't know...just throwing things out.

Show her that what she wants is important to you...but this, take your taker to the table and make sure she's clear that what YOU want is important to you too. I think she will soften if show a willingness to consider alternatives...without just "giving in"