YES

This weekend on Saturday morning.

She sat me down and told me she was selfish.

She told me that she realized how good she had it.

She appologized for her A, for her demands to move etc.

I dropped the indifference thing on her Wed. night and why I felt that way.

She noticed the difference in me but was confused. I told her what choice did I have.

I told her I was ashamed of myself for even doing some of the nice things I had done for her. I was ashamed that you could treat me that way and then I still was nice to you. I told her I am not being mean to her I am just indifferent.

I told her you might not have the husband you want but you have the husband you DESERVE.

We have MC tomorrow night so we will se how it goes.

looking forward to hearing about your MC tommorrow...

Thanks I will keep you posted.

I think the 180 may work for you.

You have to look into yourself and ask if you are giving her a REAL reason to change.

It doesn't sound like you really are. If you keep doing the same thing and expect for her to just change that will probably not happen.

I've given her a real reason to change. The reason is that her selfishness is hurting the marriage and she knows it.

If I step to the side and do a 180, that in my mind is stooping to her level.
She claims she is the way she is because of the "miserable" marriage over the last 7 years, when in reality its her selfishness.

If I were to do a 180, in other words stop being a good husband, that is just taking the engle she is claiming she took.

Those things listed in the 180 suggestions look alot like tactics used to teach children lessons.
ie: if you don't behave, you won't get your allowance this week...

Do you understand why I look at it that way?

I didn`t read the whole thread so this may have already been brought up....

I am wondering if your W`s insistence on moving may be because there is more to the story than has come out thus far....

Have you thought of that?

Her reasons for wanting to move are very clear, and I strongly beleive there is not anymore to the story.

She wants to be closer to her family.
Even though she sees them plenty, it's the fact that she has to pack up 3 kids and travel 6 hours to visit them.

That and it really really bugs her when she knows the littlest thing is going on where her family is.. IE: if her sister were to call her and tell her that the family is getting together for a little BBQ this saturday, it would really bug my wife. She would be upset at the fact that she can't just get up and go to that BBQ because we live 6hrs away.

If I were to say "let's have a BBQ here since you can't go there" she would prolly get extremely upset.

Lang,

Yes I do. I thought the same thing.

Let me ask you this question. Do you feel appreciated for what you do?

I got to a point not wanting to stoop or teach her a lesson but to just stop trying to make her happy.

I like you was told my M was miserable. I like you could give 100's of examples of things I have done in an attempt to make her happy. Only to be told she was miserable or not happy.

I looked at it and said that it seems like no matter what I do or how much energy I put into it she is not going to either see it or be happy with it.

So why keep doing things that don't make her happy? If you come home and listen to her about her day every day and she says that didn't make her happy why do that? It takes time and energy to do that. Right? But it isn't making her happy so I will spend my time and energy trying to do things that will make her happy. She was not happy when I let her go out and spend money on herself. So why sacrafice for her to do that when it is not going to make her happy.

You see I got to the point where I tried to make her happy by changing myself but low and behold she still wasn't happy. Well basically you are saying I do these things and they don't make you happy. Well I just won't do that anymore.

It really doesn't make sense doing something that you think makes your W happy if she is telling you it doesn't.

I will focus my time and energy into doing things that make her happy. If those werent' them why focus on them.

After not focusing on them during the 180 she finally came to realize that she should have realized how important those things were. SHE TOOK ALL OF THOSE FOR GRANTED as though she was ENTITLED TO THEM.

Once they were gone she missed them and wanted them back. Now that she is getting them back she actually appreciates them and doesn't take them for granted.

My FWW lost her job today. I was as understanding as I could be and let her know it would be ok. She actually thanked me for my help and understanding because she seems to understand that is what a GOOD H does.

She also told me for a change, her actions probably led to what happened. She is already looking for another job, she is going to file for unemployment and she actually was appreciative of the fact that I am here for her.


A selfish person doesn't care if it is hurting the M they only care if it is hurting them. So far it is not hurting her enough to change.

I don`t know but something is not adding up...maybe it`s just me but I cannot understand why this would be such a big issue for your W. Did she never sever the apron strings or what?

My family lives a distance away too but there are ways around that. You plan family get togethers far in advance and make a mini vaction out of it and stay a few days, or meet halfway so no one has too a long drive.

Nope.



Ok, here is where are situation differs just a little bit.

The main reason for me posting this thread is that I couldn't notice a difference in her with all the changes that I've made. However, unlike your situation, my wife does claim to appreciate what I've done, and does claim to be happy.

But at the same time, if I say "ok, ive made changes to make you happy and you say its good, now its your turn" ..
she'll say she wont change.

In other words, "honey, will you do what I did for you/us?"
her answer - No.

My FWW was a taker, still is. I was a giver, still am. What a great dynamic in a M.

My FWW was in full taker mode for quite some time. Your W sounds like she is happy with the changes you made but refuses to change.

IMVHO the moving thing, which is no longer present in my M, is giving her the sense of entitlement she had before.

In other words, you should change to make me happy because I don't get to move. I shouldn't change because I don't get to move.

You should be the perfect H to offset the fact you won't move. She shouldn't have to because she is already sacraficing enough to make you happy.

She is giving you what she feels you are ENTITLED TO. She is giving you what she thinks you deserve.

She is taking what she feels she is ENTITLED TO. She is taking what she feels she deserves.

There seems to be a very big chasm in what she thinks you are entitled to and deserve and what you think you are entitled to and deserve.

I used to think of the old bugs bunny cartoons when my FWW did these things.

1 for you.
1 for me.

2 for you.
1,2 for me.

3 for you
1,2,3 for me.

Until finally I was left with nothing and she had a big pile in front of her. Now I will only tolerate

1 for you
1 for me

2 for you
2 for me.

Now there are many ways to go about this. The 180 was just a suggestion. You can keep telling her how this is effecting you and your M.

So if her answer is NO she won't change are you willing to change? Not be a jerk or anything. But just change your interactions with her?

I finally got to the point I realized she was not looking out for me or my happiness. Doing the 180 helped me look out for me and my own happiness.

Maybe just do what makes you happy for a while.

Exactly, and we do that, but its not enough.
Just this year she has spent plenty of time with her fam.
2 weeks in dominican republic with her family (i took 2 weeks off of work to stay home with the kids so she could go)
shes spent a total of about 3-4 weeks with her family at her moms house.
and theres been a total of about 3 weeks of time to which either her mom/sister or father were here visiting us.
thats more than 8 weeks since january.
She says she shouldnt have to plan a week vacation just so she can see her family lol

HL,
i think that's what I am going to do. Im going to put myself and the kids ahead of my wife from this point on. infact im not going to do a damn thing for her.


ps: even today, after this argument lastnight, she has phoned me 3 times to ask me the same question.
She wants me to pick up our 7 moth old and meet her and our other 2 kids at the fair after work just so I can see the kids go on a few rides.
I told her I would rather just pick up baby and tak her home.
she phoned again, and then again asking the same thing. the 3rd time she actually said "but i want you to come".

lol

Heres another HUGE problem, and this has been ongoing for years...
she does not discipline our kids, she forces me to do it while she stays the "good guy".

perfect example last night...
i get home from work...
wife is upset with the way kids have behaved all day..
she tells me and our oldest S that he cannot go to the parade because he is misbehaving.
30 minutes later she ask me if she should just take him anyway. I told her that she should know my answer. He misbehaved all day and is not listening to her whatsoever. so my answer would be No, i would not take him to the parade. I told her she should stick to what she said and not take him.

20 minutes later, they all left for the parade.LOL
1 hour and a half later, they get home,,, and what does my wife say to me???

"" Your son needs a talking to, he did this and that and was misbehaving..."

so i talk to my boy, sent him to bed early etc...

then, my boy is in his bed, upset at me cause i made him go to bed...
and who comes downstairs into his room and comforts him for 20 minutse???? yup, my wife.

that was all just before we started arguaing about her slefishness LOL

sheesh

Lang,

Do this enough and she won't like it. I will gaurantee you of that. It will bring about a change.

Problem is the change can be good or bad.

Good for you not running to the fair. If you did go do you think she would count that as part of being a good H? Probably not. Give it some time of not being at her beck and call and not doing every little thing she wants and she will notice.

It might bring her back to square one and that is appreciating what you do.

You handled it well but if you are going to do it you have to stick to it.

Just ask yourself one question before you do anything. Is this going to be appreciated as much as it inconvienences(sp) you. If the answer is no then don't do it.

If you do you will set yourself up to resent her. In your mind you will always be putting in more then you can take out. That is not an equal partnership.

I gave my FWW the opportunity to make this an equal partnership by putting in more. She like your W refused. I want an equal partnership so the only other way to come to that was for me to put in less.

Now she liked it more when I was putting in more but that requires her to do the same.

If I can't call her to do what she is asking me to do I politely decline just like you did.

soo...
when my wife comes home tonight,
finds me playing a game or whatever i decide to do to entertain myself tonight..
and asks "you wanted to stay home and play your game instead of going to the fair with your kids?"

what do I say to that?lol

No you don't have to play the game on line.

Just do what you have done. Act a little aloof and indifferent.

I would actually spend time playing with the kids. Maybe a board game or something.

I will tell you right now we have a nightly wiffle ball game going. I play every night with the kids.

It started when I was outside with YS practicing. Next thing two kids next thing 9 kids and me playing. I used to come home and try to spend time with FWW. She didn't appreciate it. Heck I would go online to play a game because she was on the phone with a friend. The minute she was off I was supposed to drop everything.

Well I don't do that anymore.

I am focusing my energy on the people in my life that appreciate it. Right now it is my kids.

She is starting to really miss what she had and it shows but I am not just giving it back.

Play with the kids is what you should do.

I always play with the kids. I got younger kids, so we play ball, hide and seek, i take them swimming etc...

I'm talking about later, after the kids are in bed...

Good for you.

After the kids are in bed do what you want to do.

I would avoid the online games though.

Just sit and make yourself available to her but if she goes out for a walk or coffee feel free to go online.

If she has a problem say "I only went online because you left".

Now I am in the middle of a game and I can't leave till it is over.

No emotion what so ever. Just state it as a fact.

Once the kids are in bed she can't say that you would rather do that then take the kids to the fair.

The point is to do the bare minimum and do things that you enjoy.

When she is distant and aloof that is fine you can be the same.

Everything is to protect what love you have for her left.

Enjoy yourself and do what you like. Hopefully she will want you to be happy with her.

What if she is at home, but not really doing anything that would involve myself?
IE: if she is talking on the phone, playing cards on her computer or whatever...

I mean if its 9pm, im bored, why should I avoid playing?

Why continue to base what I am going to do on her?

i may be misunderstanding this.

I am saying make yourself somewhat available.

Do not go out of your way to engage her but do not do something that will make you completely unavailable.

If she choses to talk on the phone, or play cards on the computer she has now made herself unavailable to you.

So you should not base what you are doing on her. You should give her an opportunity to spend time with you. That is what you want. If she does not take that opportunity then you can go play on line.

Why not try something new though like poker or soduku. They are shorter games that you can leave anytime you want.

In other words if she tries to make it an issue you are not tied up for hours.

When my FWW choses to get on the phone I go in and start playing poker, or sudoku. She wants to now talk etc. I say I am in the middle of the game we can talk when I am done. But that is not an hour or two later. It is usually 15 minutes or so.

She even said one time it bothered her and I asked her if I was just supposed to sit around until she is done with what she is doing? I mean sometimes you pick up the phone and are on for an hour. You enjoy talking on the phone, I enjoy playing poker. So when you get on the phone I play poker. That way I have something to do while you are talking.

To be quite honest, I don't think I want to spend time with her.
Remember the other night, the argument I had with her about selfishness...
we came to a understanding that she is far too selfish, and that her selfishness is killing our marriage..
she admits that,
she also says she won't change.
not "can't", but "won't".

Because of that, I really am not interested in spending time with her, or making myself available.

"No I won't change" ???
that leaves me with absolutely no incentive or hope, so why would/should I make my self available?

Lan,

do you have children? If so what ages?

If no children, then I would tell her what I am going to do to better myself to become a better partner and mate and then I would do it. I would also tell her that you are committed to doing this because you love her and because your M is important to you.

But, I would also tell her that if in 6 months she has shown no willingness to change, become less selfish, more giving, in the relationship that you intend to move on with someone who can and will and that will appreciate the person you have become.