OK there is nothing wrong with restating something.

This maybe a little retribution for the 180. It may be her testing you. Who cares. It needs to be uninstalled.

If I were you. I would uninstall it. If I came home the next day and it was there I would uninstall it again. Restate your objection until she just stops doing it.

One of the things with boundries is the incremental enforcement of them. You must be diligent in enforcing them. Someone else said a boundry is the way you teach someone to treat you and to act around you. Nothing wrong with doing that.


Didn't figure she would.LOL. My FWW didn't much like it either. I am not in 180 anymore I am about at a 101. LOL.

We have MC tonight so we will see how it goes.

During the 180 I told my fww I am only putting in what I can take out. So far you have shown what I can take out so I am not going to keep putting to much into it.

I will not go back to the way it was because that was not fair to me. If you are asking for you not to treat me fairly and for me to agree to that you have unrealistic expectations.

Then I asked her if she would agree to that if the roles were reversed. I think if anyone should be putting in more it would be you considering what has happened.

Then I said please don't tell me you think you are better then me. Because that is what it sounds like. LOL.

Whats yours is yours and whats mine is yours doesn't work for old HL.

I see your point, but I am almost positive that she will deny installing it (she'll say she thought she did, but it must not have uninstalled completely or some crap like that)

she wont just say ok , ill uninstall it again

i think the only thing i can do is uninstall it myself and wait for her to confont me, as im sure she will.

Exactly. Uninstall it. If she says something act stupid. I noticed it and know you have had a hard time uninstalling it so I did.

If you want to go the extra mile block it from being downloaded. LOL.

Might even go as far as telling her you are about ready to call or email yahoo to ask them how it is that it keeps reapperaing after you know you have deleted it.

Either way do not slip on enforcing your boundries.

Good luck

well it was aug 22nd when she downloaded yahoo messenger.
She opens it up once in a while, I can only assume to check if OM is online, and he seems to never be, or he just has it set to look that way to her.

yesterday (30th) she finally did it. She sent him a message saying "Hi how are you" and got no response.

She then began to write an email to him, but must have gotten distracted and didn't end up sending an email.

So, as I expected, my kids started school yesterday and today, so I expect her to keep trying to get in touch with him now that shes home alone with the baby all day.

I can't seem to "call her on it" or uninstall yahoo, and I think its because of how things have happened in the past.

What I mean is, if I were to approach her on it now, she would get very angry and ask me how I know she sent a message, am I spying on her again? to which I would say yes, and thats not the point.

she will then say its nothing and she had no intentions of anything bla bla bla


I think I am reluctant to confront her on it until I have something solid (proof) to show her that I know she has bad intentions. Why I have no idea.

so i can either confront her on it, argue, restate the boundry and really not get anywhere, at best Id make her angry.

My other concern is that if I confront her and tell her i know she sent a message to him yesterday, this will be the 4th time the boundry has been broken, and I am afraid that she will find another way to contact him.

I dunno what to do other than to sit here and watch it start all over again, then tell her Ive had enough and I want her to leave.

but, then i lose my kids,

sux.

I keep replaying how I imagine it to happen over and over again in my head, and it always seems to go like this...

she keeps contacting him, things start to get inappropriate again, but this time when I confront her I show her print outs of her messages to him, then tell her that the marriage is over and its time to discuss wether we are going to live together as parents or whatever....

Lang,

Yes it sucks.

You have two choices being proactive and being reactive.

I can't see how letting the FWW progress until it gets worse for you making the situation better.

After an A one of the most important things for the FWS to commit to is transparency. She needs to open up everything to you, phone bills, IM sessions etc.

There would be no need for your spying or snooping if this was happening.

If D is the answer if she starts the inapporpiate behavior again then let her know that now.

No matter what the discussion is like you should not internalize it.

Tell her it is not open for discussion. NC means NC. If she decides to go into contact again then you can decide on the 180, Plan A, Plan B, or D.

I think I told you this before but a few months ago I finally had had enough. We had another discussion like the one you describe. The next day came the obligatory appology from her. I said nothing.

She asked what I was thinking. I said it is either MC or a D. She said then we need to go to MC. I said I hadn't decided yet if I want to go to MC.

Finally my point came across to her that I can only tolerate so much and I might be there already.

Boy for someone that was not to interested in MC she got interested real quick. The thing was it wasn't a threat. I was being honest. I couldn't do it anymore.

You HAVE TO HAVE a next step. If she continues what is your next step? Clearly explain that next step. If it means a separation you must do that.

Do not state something you will not do.

Here's the thing.

Tell her honestly that you don't trust her anymore. Tell her that what she did destroyed that trust you felt for her before, and that the only way she can rebuild that trust is by showing her that she's being trustworthy. That means that she has the responsibility to become trustworthy, and you have the responsibility to give her the chance to show it, and to VERIFY THAT SHE HAS BECOME TRUSTWORTHY.

So if she asks you if you're still "spying", tell her yes you are...to rebuild that trust that you had in her.

And tell her point blank that re-installling the IM she used to communicate with OM clearly indicates that she's NOT trustworthy at this time. The fact that she not only installed it, but then has attempted to contact him shows you that she is NOT abiding by NC...which means that you are now forced with enforcing your boundary of NC.

Either she agree to NC, and work with you to develop a plan for her to communicate with you when she's tempted to violate it, along with measures to safegaurd your marriage against this happening again, or you take whatever other actions you feel are needed. (Plan B, 180, plan D, etc...)

If you do nothing, nothing will change. She 'gets away with it'...which will give her permission to do it again. And she will.

It wasn't until I caught my wife emailing OM again, and confronted her with my knowledge and made it CLEAR to her that NO relationship with OM would be tolerated if we were to have one that our situation REALLY improved.

If you let this go, she'll continue.

Now...expect her to fight every single step of this. She'll scream at you for spying, she'll tell you she WAS going to work on things, but now she can't trust you...calmly let her have her say, quietly correct her once she's done speaking, but do NOT change your mind.

And...sit down now and have a PLAN for how you're going to deal with future breaches in trust. You don't have to tell her what it is...but YOU need to know what your course of action will be.

I think I want her to just leave.

I feel as though I've gone beyond what it takes to save a marriage, and the only thing I havent done is ended it.

What is it about a person that makes them risk a marriage over and over again just to get a little attention from someone half way around the world?

Remember, I've done everything she claims would make her happy, and still she contacts him.

I truly feel it is unfixable now. I feel like I want to tell her that she can live her life and stay out of mine. Which means we either live together with the kids, or she leaves and takes my kids with her.

Deep down, I hate her. How can she do this. I would do anything to have her feel the way I have for a while.

Lang,

I saw this quote this weekend and used it on other posts. It is from Andre Agassi.

The value of something is not measured only by what you gain but what you might lose.

Right now your W is cake eating. She may really think there is nothing to lose.

If you really feel like you are done with it let her know. HOWEVER do not close the door. You can simply state I am done with this M as it exists right now.

From there you can do a lot of things up to and including a D.

That is your choice. Even harley says that the BS has the right to a D anytime they chose.

I would suggest an MC. I know she doesn't want to go but it may help.

update...

I have not told her that I know she attempted to contact OM.

Also, I've set up Marriage counselling starting Monday 11th.

I will be going to 2 sessions by myself, then I'' ask my wife if she wants to go to a cpl sessions alone or if she wants to go together.

The counsellor told me on the phone it would be best that I go in alone first, so that I can "vent" before we go together. He felt it would be beneficial if I vented alone with the counsellor first, so that I dont do it when we go together.

thoughts?

Lang,

Sounds like a good idea. The MC can probably hear how charged up you are over this. The last thing you want to do is go in there and cause more damage.

I can say this. I would separate the IC from the MC. I found my firs MC could not keep what we talked about in our IC separate from the MC. I felt like I could not open up to him because it would get brought up in our MC sessions.

Regarding telling her about the attempted contact what did she say?

by IC I assume you mean the counselling with just me alone..?

if thats what you mean, then yes, the counsellor has already told me there will be a confidentiality agreement in that anything I say to him cannot be brought up in the MC unless I bring it up.

as far as telling her about attempting to contact the OM, i think you misread. I said that I havent told her...

Im thinking i should before counselling...

Lang,

Yes IC is independant C.

I would not recommend going to the same person for both MC and Independant. Even if there is a confidentiality agreement.

Our course now is MC together and IC alone two different IC's.

Our first MC either forgot we talked about stuff in MC or crossed the line. IMHO it is not productive for you to see the same person for IC and MC.

Our first MC and I talked one time. My FWW had started drinking again. I was upset about it and I said I don't understand why she would start again. At the very least she should be thinking about a D and child custody. Her drinking would kill her in a custody hearing. Two days later my FWW came home from her IC session. She asked me if I was going to use her drinking against her in a D. I said no. She asked if I talked to the MC about it. I said yes. In order to keep the peace I had to tell her what I said and how I said it. I never went back and I wanted to make a complaint against him.

The other reason I would say get separate ones is that you or her may not open up to the counsellor knowing it could change the advice. It is hard to explain but that is my two cents.

On the contact. I wouldn't wait a week to discuss it. What if she makes contact in that time? More damage. Don't give her enough rope to hang herself. Let her know you know and work from there.

I am sorry for the road you are going down but you do need to protect yourself.

wait,
your MC gives advice to you ?

The counsellor I talked with said that he doesn't give advice or say who or what is right or wrong...

he said he mediates and thats about it.

I asked him specifically to clarify that, and he did. He does not give advice, he only mediates and when needed he may challenge something we say.


that sound right?
I hope so, i dont have many other options for counselling..

OK bad word advice.

I am on my third MC.

First one was big on the "what do you feel" crud. LOL.

He said things that quite frankly this MC whinced at. He said to me one time "have you ever thought you want this M more then her?" boy did that send me into a tail spin. I told this MC and the look on his face said everything.

The second MC I barely saw because after talking to my FWW and I she only wanted to see the FWW for IC.

This MC listens to both sides and then asks if we noticed this or that. For instance he kept saying to my FWW the way I acted in this or that situation was understandable.

In our second session we went through our childhood's. At the end he asked if we could see how our childhoods may determine the way we deal with conflict. I knew it caused me to be a conflict avoider and said yes. I don't think she understands what he was getting at. Her attitude that she has to take care of herself because no one else will.

Him challenging what you or your FWW is saying is in essence giving advice. In other words you feel one way she feels the other about a sitch. She says something that is off base. he will stop and challenge what she says. In turn maybe she will see she owns it.

Without giving advice he should guide her or you to think differently.

Don't know if that makes sense.