I think that is the key, to preserve oneself from viewing the consequences of the damage they inflicted. The notion that they don't tell their victim to "protect" them is a very weak rationalization that falls apart very quickly upon examination. That is like saying it wasn't "my intention" to hurt my BS when I had my affair. That is a weak rationalization. I wouldn't go so far as to justify the rationalization only because the person was foggy. I think human nature is to rationalize away things that hurt us, and I don't think this is any different.

What counts most is REALITY, not feelings, though. And the reality is that while the truth of the affair is hurtful, it is a therapeutic pain, no matter how a WS rationalizes that.

MEDC, I have NO idea what point you are making.

You obviously don't like me. I'm not used to hostility although I've had my fair share on this board (never IRL) and I don't quite know how to respond.

Kiwi and Mel,

I am wondering if Jen, is really rattling around strategies for approaching WS's about the need for honesty. I don't think the need for honesty can be debated, I don't think it can be debated that honesty is the healing balm although often very painful, for a marriage.

What I wonder is if Jen is really suggesting that as posters we need to factor in that the WS not only is trying to protect themselves, but also trying to protect their marriage and their spouse with the withholding of painful details. If this is the case then the issue is one of awareness when talking to a WS and trying to convince them to be honest and open with the BS.

It is often true if one understands where someone is really coming from it is often easier to reach them and convey important information to them.

Is this where this is going Jen? What do you think Mel?

God Bless,

JL

JL, regretting starting this now as I knew I would.

I only wanted to point out that BS's misunderstand the reason for withholding and from the replies I've had refuse to see it any other way.

Anyway, I'm facing hostility once again from MEDC now and don't really want to continue.

The most painful twisting of the knife - is the continuation of lies. The lies are as painful as the other part.

It may not be the case for you, KJ, but I know for a fact that my XW holds back the truth not for my sake, but for her own.

-AD

MEDC,

I am a little lost in this discussion. What was the above quote in response to?

Jen,

Don't regret saying something you feel to be true. There seems to be a lot of hostility on this site lately and I am seriously considering leaving it. It serves no purpose it seems to be coming from people who have NOT bothered to read the articles or information on this site, and it seems to be very mean spirited.

There is enough pain on this site without this going on. But, I would urge you to continue to post because I think you have the germs of a very interesting bit of insight with regard to helping people here.

I am interested in hearing Mel's thoughts on what I said about your thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

I think you are both right

Kiwi is telling the thoughts of a fws

Mel is telling the thoughts of a bs

both are valid

a fws should see it as a bs sees it -should see what withholding seems like to the bs

maybe it helps a bs to see it as the fws sees it, but it is still going to seem like the truth is being kept from them.

maybe in time

Me too, JL. I mean about leaving. It's a different place from when you first replied to me nearly 3 years ago.

Reality Check, that's my point. A FWS just doesn't see it as a BS sees it. I'm only saying how a FWS sees it and maybe it will help in the huge communication gap.


I KNOW how a BS sees it. Most FWS's who come here, don't.

Hi Jen,

I like what JL said.

But I know for me, a FBS, when my x-H continued to withhold the truth regarding his affair and related info it caused me the most damage. I was making decisions based on half truths and omissions of truths, come to find out.

I look back and think if I was given all the information I would probably have made different choices and decisions. I feel he robbed me of that because he wasn't forthright with the truth.

I don't know what his motives or intentions were, he could have been trying to protect me from hurt, but he ended up doing me a worse disservice long term.

Love,
Jo

Exactly!

Every lie is a deeply disrespectful wound. And my XW has stately plainly that she "doesn't want me to beat her up for the rest of her life." So, I know it is self-preservation at work. But, I have no interest in doing that. My interest is only to see that the truth is available to me whenever I ask for it. The details really don't matter. What matters is that the secret life is left open to examination. When it is, little examination is neccesary.

My XW has said that she want reconcilation, but I will only join in if she is going to open all the closed doors and allow me to share her wholeness.

-AD

Yes, I agree this is correct. I fully understand what Jen is saying here. And this viewpoint is supported and encouraged in so many quarters! How many "counselors" actually tell their clients to NOT tell, lest they "hurt them?" yikes!

So, I think often, just as you pointed out, that the WS is simply NOT AWARE that the real "twisting" of the knife comes from the continued lies and withholding of the truth. My gosh, that is almost MORE PAINFUL than the news of the affair itself. It is that awareness, I think, that really needs to be imparted to WS who comes here.

Good to see ya, JL. I sure hope you don't ever leave, you are a national treasure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I agree it has been very hostile around here lately. I hope it blows over soon. I may have to get a stronger asbestos suit! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL, Mel, Texans don't need asbestos suits. They'll just need bigger guns.

If JL leaves, the world as I know it will have ended.

lol! I almost said that very thing! You could be right! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jen,

I hope you will reconsider and not leave. I will be the first to admit that when I initially read your thread in which you revealed new contact with OM, I projected your sitch onto mine and it depressed me.

A big part of the reason for that is that you were and are held in such high regard by MB members. It would be a huge loss to this community if you left.

I hope you will choose to stay.

And JL, you need to stick around as well...

Todd, I know my renewed contact triggered a lot of people and I regret that daily. I regret the pain I caused my H most of all. I know I became foggy again and it horrified me as much as anyone else. I LOVE my H.

I'm also sorry about the way the board has been lately. All people who've posted here a while say that. I remember when I first joined and there was a mass exodus (not because of me LOL) of people saying it "wasn't like the good old days" and they were off to join another board. It's probably still going.

If JL sticks around, I'll definitely stick around. As I said, I'm not used to hostility IRL, but I've learned such a lot on MB about dealing with all sorts of different personality types. I hope I can even be of help to someone. I know I have been in the past.

Jen,

It was not my intent to emphasize the quoted portion; that was merely an intro. In truth, your story gives me hope. I would have given anything if my wife had been remorseful and wanted to R. Your sitch reminds me that yes, while we are all human, there is hope and redemption.

There's not one bit of hostility in my posts here. I am being kind and trying to be helpful. What was hostile?

Well, MEDC, you posted an excerpt from a post on Pio's thread. You didn't say why or what it meant. I assumed it was meant to show up my shortcomings in some way.