Forgive me if this sounds like a stupid question....but

WHY?

Why do the BS not want to put an ugly face on their spouse? What is the pay-off for the BS?

Forgive me

OK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I forgive you

if this sounds like a stupid question....

yes, it sort-of does

but

>>> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <<<

WHY?

Why do the BS not want to put an ugly face on their spouse?

because (speaking for myself) I love him !

What is the pay-off for the BS?

What is the payoff for not being suspicious and/or paranoid (pre-d-day) .... happiness, serenity, a sense of wellness

Pep

Then, the serenity, sense of wellness, etc....could it be said then that they are "selfish" reason? Now before you clobber me, let me say, everyone deserves to live in peace and serenity....and even if they are selfish reasons, they certainly are pure and noble ones. But the motivating force, though, is still "self-serving", is it not?
I guess what I'm getting at is, isn't "falling in love" really a selfish act? Even though when you are in the midst of falling, you BELIEVE it is for the other person?

And when the BS wants to put their marriage back together after an affair, are you sure, that in ALL cases, they aren't doing that for purely selfish reasons, and not because they think it's what is best for their WS?

NOW

NOW ... you're losing me.... ????

"and even if they are selfish reasons, they certainly are pure and noble ones"

Lady Clueless said:



I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Jen:

Don't you think it's DISRESPECTFUL for the FWS to presume to understand a FBS' needs and feelings?

At that time, I didn't think that my FWH could possibly understand what information I needed and why..

If he understood, why did he continue to betray me? He had not won my TRUST yet.

Plus, I didn't fully UNDERSTAND why I needed the information..how much information..or what information...

WHAT A DIFFICULT, DIFFICULT TIME!!!

I can not speak for "ALL cases"

do you have a point?

I'm getting lost >>> HELP ME <<<

Pep

Pep, I am assuming that you want serenity and sense of wellness for yourself, and maybe even for your spouse....if so, then the reasons aren't completely selfish, but still at least partly so. And, wanting serenity and peace for youself is helpful to others, not harmful. Does that make sense?

I do think, though, that most human behaviors are self-serving. Even those of the BS. And that most of us don't know what LOVE REALLY means.

Mimi, if I may try to answer this....

YES, it is disrespectful for a FWS to presume to understand a FBS needs and feelings. The problem is, most WS do not KNOW any better at first. Some never learn that, either. We work with what we have at the time. You know, years ago cholesterol wasn't a bad thing. Then all of a sudden, it was. Should we call the medical profession selfish and self-serving for what they did not know at the time? We can stand here and say "You should have known better!", shaking our fists at them and calling them names. Is that fair?

Pep, I am assuming that you want serenity and sense of wellness for yourself, and maybe even for your spouse....if so, then the reasons aren't completely selfish, but still at least partly so. And, wanting serenity and peace for youself is helpful to others, not harmful. Does that make sense?

OK

I do think, though, that most human behaviors are self-serving.

MOST = yes

Even those of the BS.

BWHAAAAAAAAAAA ... you are so silly ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And that most of us don't know what LOVE REALLY means.

I know what LOVE means, so may I assume you are speaking for yourself?

Pep

Hmmm...I will admit it, I don't truly understand the meaning of LOVE. Or maybe it is more a matter of not knowing how to carry it out, or failing at it more often than I succeed. And I see in the actions of so many people, that they also are struggling with love in action.

Early after D-day, I THOUGHT I was doing loving things for RH, and was told no, you are being selfish. That was not my INTENTION. I just did not know how to be loving in the "right" way. AND I didn't know that I didn't know- what love really is!

When i say the BS is selfish, well....RH told me after D-day that he didn't want to lose me. I assumed that his reasons were selfish....not ALL the reasons...of course not. Staying with a FWS is probably the most unselfish act there is. But can you tell me that ALL reasons the BS stays are not selfish?

I would like to hear what you believe the meaning of love is. Do you think it is a learned behavior? And can we even learn it without first finding out, the hard way, through experience, what it is NOT?

NOW

I don't wish to critique you as an individual, but discuss overall principles that work in most cases

For myself, I learned how to love because I was loved by both parents ... human love is not perfect ... but it is wonderful

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

NOW:

Well, I think it's such an inaccurate assumption to think that the DETAILS HURT. Why a WS would think this in the first place is beyond me...

My FANTASIES about the DETAILS of the A were MUCH WORSE than the REALITY. Plus, just the fact that my H had an AFFAIR was what was HURTFUL..not the DETAILS of it.

The DETAILS were so important for RECOVERY for both of us and for the MARRIAGE...Helped us know what we need to guard against..what we need to continue to work on...in order to prevent another TRAGEDY such as this...OK..like working on how to prevent heart disease...by determining significant cholesterol levels...

Medical research in prevention and treatment is continuous..using your analogy...can't be effective without the DETAILS...

I also did not like the ASSUMPTION that most, if not ALL, FWSes are not focused on self-preservation...

My H was open in saying that IT HURT HIM too much to give details. I knew that the DETAILs helped ME. We worked on a BALANCING ACT..sort of POJA..in which we were sensitive to each other..I continued to ask...he answered until he needed to stop..somedays he could not answer any questions at all..he told me that I was going "overboard"..as I said before, a difficult, difficult time for us...

My H was also open in saying that there were DETAILS that I did not need to know or else he was afraid that I would not be able to "love" him anymore. I've believed him on this and have not asked for this information...but you know what?... one day, as we continue to grow in our intimacy and trust levels, he's going to tell me...I'm willing to wait...and I need to know....

SPEAKING OF LOVE,WE LOVE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH..more than ever!!!!..I also know what it is....

Bragging..I got a big bunch of RED "I LOVE YOU" VALENTINE'S DAY BALLOONS YESTERDAY..and last time I checked, it's August...

if you had not said "all" I'd be able to respond !

this almost reads like a double-negative question >>. "all are not"

sorry

can't answer

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm actually more interested in discussing what works vs what is less likely to work... KWIM?

Lunchtime musing:

Mimi~~ your imaginaton is worse than the reality? I have a great imagination but seriously, when my (then)H told me about his first affair, I mean the REAL details, I felt utterly sick to my stomach.

I don't want to offend anyone, so I'll be gentle when I say this... I knew there was flirting (BIG TIME) and note-writing, and mushy lovey-dovies, but I had NO IDEA he'd gone under her desk (she was a teacher) and... performed... stuff.

THAT WAS THE REALITY.

Blech.

That said, I'd still want the details, but I really didn't appreciate hearing the details 13 years after the fact, ya know?

I got so p'd off all over again. In fact, I honestly feel the slightest twinge of disguist right now (even though we haven't been married for six years and he isn't the same person he was then - our relationship has healed a LOT since the divorce).

Still, just yuk.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Now you've lost ME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I wasn't asking for a critique of me, individually. I was giving an example to try to convey what I mean. I fear I am not communicating very well today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Telling me you know what love is because you were loved by both parents, does not answer my question. I'm happy for you though.

You are oh so right....human love is not perfect. That is my whole point.

New:

You give the perfect example of why folks should not assume that all situations are the same.

Turns out that actually our Sex life was more spicy than theirs...for whatever reason..FOW in my case wanted to PLAY "WIFEY" which bothers me as much as the under the desk stuff bothers you...She really tried to replace ME...YUCK...

Mimi, you are right, absolutely right. But remember, the WS was never in your position as a BS (well, some here were, but not most). It takes a FWS a lot longer to realize they are doing more harm than good by not being completely honest about the details, simply because they have never been in your position. At least not on such a grand scale.

Pep, what I am saying here is that not ALL of the reasons a FWS has for not divulging information to the BS are selfish ones, and I thought this thread was about that.... the FWS' self-preservation, self-serving reason being the ONLY reason. I wholehartedly agree that is ONE reason. And probably the underlying one. But again, I am trying to say that in the fog, we DO NOT think we are being selfish! It is not our conscious intention to hurt the BS by withholding information! And the problem I have with this forum sometimes is that BS make an assumption that the FWS are PURPOSELY and CONSCIOUSLY putting self first, all the while knowing FULL WELL what they are doing.
That simply is not true. We do not realize what we are doing. It takes time, and learning, and it feels like an insult when someone says "YOU SHOULD KNOW!"

Ugh.

NOW

NOW:

Good point. I see what you are saying now. I agree.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm another in the "Details Not As Bad As Imagination" category.

Turns out I am the spicier one - she was just a Spice Wannabe.

NB, I can see why you feel the way you do, and I agree that the reality was far worse for you, but I still think that for most of us, our imaginations were worse. It would make an interesting poll.