I feel more than ever these days the LOVE that my FWH has for me. It's a very sacred, tender, protective kind of love..more special than I've ever realized. I can't even put it into words. As Pep said to me one day, I feel that he would "die" for me. He said many years ago that he actually loved me this strongly..enough to "die" for me...but felt that I "loved" the children more than I loved him.. and that I did not appreciate the intensity of his love for me.. Thank God, he feel this depth of love for me again..

I say this in resonse to your post, JL, because I've come to realize that regardless of all the BAD STUFF that my H did during his A, I don't think I ever believed that he stopped loving me. I think he tried to convince himself that he did because he was soooo ADDICTED, CRAZED, caught up into the OW..but he could not stay away from me. I could sense it. I could see it in his eyes. I thought I was just fooling myself at times when I would lay there in my bed all alone but I COULD STILL SENSE HIS LOVE for me in there deep inside of him somewhere. That kept me MOTIVATED to work the MB PLANS. Plus, Steve H. assured me of this as well along the way...

So thank you for helping to validate this for me.

Regarding Oklahoma, I've thought the legal process of obtaining a divorce is too swift in her state...just one factor...

Jen

My husband loved OW

he told her
and he told me

LowOrbit says he loved OW
is he a liar?

~love hurts~

and ~hurt the one you love~
I guess is the theme of all this

I am tired
Pep

And my H LOVED the OW, too...

I accept and know that....

But it is NOT the SAME TYPE of LOVE that WE HAVE.....

Steve explained some of this difference to me...

This RECOVERED MARITAL LOVE has a PAST, PRESENT, AND A FUTURE....

Theirs is/was from my understanding MOSTLY IN THE PRESENT....

In order to RECOVER, the WS has to BELIEVE that there can be a FUTURE with the BS...

Pep, I was conflicted the whole time during the A. It nearly killed me, with alcohol and depression because it went against my core of ethics. It was an obsession, it wasn't love. He didn't care for my well being and happiness, I didn't care for his. I had no idea what his everyday trials and tribulations were, he didn't know what mine were and I doubt he'd have cared if he did. It was the reflection of myself that was so appealing. I looked good. I made him look good.

OM encouraged me to restart my degree. Told me how smart I was. Rob, who knows what I'm like under extreme stress, knows it would be more than I can handle right now. He knows me, OM thought he knew me.

It wouldn't have stood up to day to day life. Not like the 32 years I've been married to Rob that have stood up to everything that life has thrown at us.

I hoped JL's post wouldn't give false hope. Some WS's will carry on their path no matter what. They WILL see and it will probably be too late.

so

am I to understand

the point being underlined here is

no matter how much you hurt your spouse

consistently over a period of years sometimes

the proof that you love them is that you do not file for divorce

is this it?

Well apparently this is not true !

They can come to MB boards and get the help they need in order to recover their affair marriage just fine & dandy

so now what?

Pep

Pep, do you see happiness there? I don't.

then what is the purpose of MBers helping her if it is not to show her methods to create a happier marriage?

.... she'll be just as happily married as you some day

JL - weave in the part about the alien abduction and you'll then have it all covered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

JL

This is such a great post...one that seems to speak directly to my heart.

I find myself on a fence of my own these days...sometimes I am still and serene...filled with inner peace and a sense of being in the midst of God's plan for me.

Other times, I torture myself with trying to analyze and figure out the whats, whys, and hows of my WH and what I could or should DO about this.

Thanks for helping me to get back on the serenity side of things.

BTW, CEG_UK, this is so true:

"I think the mechanics are relatively simple, the emotions are horrendous."

Regarding Pep's comments:

... some WS's... some PEOPLE... are simply FLAWED... and UNABLE to LOVE ANYONE... for myriad reasons.

Deeply disturbed and/or emotionally ill people often look like, act like and seem like everyone else. Often, *they* don't even realize how ill they are. They are ever-looking for *something* and never seem to be satisfied with what they find.

While I believe that JL's post has tons and tons of merit... there are some WS's that simply do not fit the mold - never have, never will.

Are Hurting and eav's H's these kinds of people? I don't know...

For whatever reason, they are he11-bent on staying the course... of their choices... and I would almost guarantee that one day, down the road, they will crack wide open... because nobody can live with having caused the kind of pain they have and NOT.

I said ILY to the OM and that makes me want to hurl. I believed it at the time, and it *felt* real. It wasn't. I saw the notes my ex-H wrote to the OW's... often with ILY's... and yet, he says he didn't love them.

Sometimes we say things more for ourselves than the other people involved, to make it valid. For a thoughtful person, (and by this I mean someone who "thinks" not someone who's "nice") there is no peace in looking back at the destruction... *unless* it is for a *reason* (love). Am I making sense?

I agree with JL that VERY OFTEN the WS is still in love with the BS. I was still in love with my (then)H the entire time I was with OM... but make no mistake... I wanted him to NOTICE me, and I found the best way to be noticed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Hanging around here (MB) can at times be very tiring, very hurtful and very deeply disturbing... I am constantly reminded of my prior selfishness... and am embarrassed by the similiarities of the WS experience.

It all sux sometimes.

New:

Folks like this, though, tend to have a pattern of instability throughout their lives. Eav and Hurting describe MANY years of their husbands being WONDERFUL and LOVING so this doesn't seem to explain what happened in their situations...

I recall trying to convince Steve that my H had some mental illness to explain his actions..his response: NO... AN ADDICTION TO THE OP...

If you view LOVE as a VERB, there is LOVE between the infidels since they are filling each others' LOVE BANKS...

I think what NBII describes is called "bottomless people".
Dunno if it's the same term in English.
It means you can pour all the love & care & understanding into them you want.. they do not change.
Not without years of therapy - and even then.
You could say they were "abducted by the mother ship" at so young an age that the damage is almost permanent, and that it will spread to others, because that's the only way they know how - they cannot accept that anyone really loves them.
But such persons are the exception, not the rule.

Most abductions are non-permanent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
It seems the "ransom" is the love & patience of the BS can muster until the WS gets in touch with his/her loving & caring side again.

Because having your love bank filled at the expense of others hardly is "being in touch with your loving & caring side".

That is a remarkable message, Just Learning.

Your insight is amazing since you have never
been a BH or a WH.

IWRA

Consider this:

How many times you've heard the shocked neighbor of a mass murderer say: "He/She was such a quiet, nice person" or "I never thought something like that would happen at THEIR house"...

I understand that sometimes we can tell fairly easily... but sometimes, "bottomless people" (I like that description) really DO seem just like everyone else UNTIL THEY DON'T.

Sometimes these types of personalities have fooled many, many, MANY people for YEARS.

Some of the most notorious killers were charming, social and seemed very nice.

Scary, scary stuff.

PS: Lest someone think I'm comparing WS's to murderers... well, actually, it is yet another truth that I have to accept about myself, too... I am. WS's are killers of marriages and spirits. We FWS's have to accept the consequences, and unfortunately, this is one of them. The reality of how damaging affairs are to the ones we love (including ourselves).

Pep...

a couple of thoughts...

Not everything happens in the time we want it to. The situations you have described does not make JL's comments false. He says the love is sometimes hidden for awhile. In these situations, possibly the WS just doesn't have the motivation or ability to find it again. We keep telling BS's that the A is about the WS... about weaknesses, issues within them, but your thoughts on here describe the BS feeling unloveable because the WS doesn't rekindle the love. This contradicts what the message is. I realize you are talking about the BS's feelings... but we need to keep that same message. The WS sometimes doesn't return because of something inside them.

Second, regarding MM and others helping JJ. What I've read of MM's thread, he is looking to help JJ get to a better place in her life. That does not rule out going back and repairing the damage done years ago... similarly to how we help any other WS on here. MM is looking to what God wants to do in this situation (or for the non-Christians... what will make JJ a better person), not just helping fix her current "marriage". He wants her to be "fixed".

I hope you will find strength and peace this weekend. It has been a tough ride lately, and sometimes all the help you give to others takes a toll on yourself. Be well.

Shaden

New screen name, IWRA?

eav,

My H was in love with an OW on and off for 4 years. We had a couple of separations and false recoveries. He ended it with that one only to have another A (for 8 months) with another OW 4 yrs after the last one ended. At first I thought it was the other OW...I was shocked that is was a new one. We did the MB weekend a few months after the last A ended.

My H wasn't cruel to me when we were separated. He still had some sympathy for me and was good about financial support during our separations (guilt?). He made no move toward DV. The OW, in that case, divorced and made out quite well. My H moved in with her and her 3 kids for a couple of months after her DV. Then reality set in...the bubble burst.

Sometimes WS's (or BS's) pride kicks in and they keep having to go in one direction...as if to prove something.

and I worry
about how someone in her position
precarious
still bleeding from her wounds

will feel somehow less lovely because her WH did not love her in the way that Kiwi's H loved his WW

Or worse...that she will think that SHE did something wrong in applying the MB principles.

If people are telling her that her situation is EXACTLY like theirs...
that her H still loves her...
that her marriage will be restored....

And it doesn't happen..

she will certainly think/feel that SHE is the one that prevented it from happening.

I wish so much emphasis wouldn't be placed on the mindset of the WS.

I wish concentration was placed on the BS and the place they are at in regards to the relationship.

There is a possibility that the WS does NOT love the BS...and do they want to be with someone that does not love them? Why would you cling to someone that does not love you? What underlying reason is there for that?

I happen to think that even though this is called "Marriagebuilders" that the BS needs to take personal inventory before reacting to anything that their WS might or might not feel.

Stop analyzing the WS so much...

concentrate on personal growth...

realize that the end of a marriage isn't the end of YOU.

JMHO
committed