Star fish...
in my opinion... and know you are speaking to ML, so forgive me for jumping in, the big picture is a concern on THESE boards regarding a number of posters and their potential impact on new comers to this board.
I know that I am so very happy that I did not encounter someone like CS when I first arrived here. Running into those that I did was a blessing. I have seen drastic change in the board these past few months and it is my belief that there are several people here whose only goal is to disrupt the purpose of this board.
I would have been happy to run into you when I arrived. You seem thoughtful and even if we don't agree on everything, your advice is appreciated.

starfish, it is clear to me you are looking for scapegoats when you say: "I'm trying to understand the big picture and if this fits into all the discontent at all." There is no other reason for you to ask than that so your intent is clear to me.

So I will just assure you that you are barking up the wrong tree. The main instigators in the drama here are not even ON my board. In fact, I would say that the majority of them are either ignoring the situation entirely or are doing an excellent job of playing peacemaker.

So, you will just have to take my word for it that my board is NOT the culprit here and look for other causes.

scapegoat: a person, group, or inanimate object upon which the blame for the crimes or misfortunes of others is projected. The original scapegoat was Biblical, a real goat which metaphorically carried sins into the desert.

If Star is looking for how MelodyLane's board -actually- fits into the bigger picture, then it is, by definition, not a scapegoat.

That's different from whether it's actually involved in anything or not, of course. Since I've never posted or read there, I have no idea. I'll take ML's word for it. (Unless she's actually CinnamonSugar, in which case, well, I'll wait and assume everything will be revealed tomorrow, April 2.)

ML:


Melody, you should read your signature sometime. It's very good.

mk,

You are always welcome to respond to my posts...whether they are addressed to you or not. I value your opinion and I understand your purpose/intent....even if I'm a bit unsure about your goal or "solutions" in terms of this particular thread.

But if there is indeed another board where people from this board are "discussed" then I do think that's probably feeding into the <general> discord on this board too....that's just logical. The subject matter would be volatile if no other board existed....the other board didn't create the volatility....the question I'm asking is if it has the ability to escalate it...feed it...fuel it. Is that part of the picture....I really don't know. As I said....I didn't even know there was another board.

We have a big problem here on MB....it's a problem of consistency in our message. How do we rectify the disparity and mixed messages between helping people overcome the devastation of infidelity....and then turn around and help an affair marriage? That's a legitimate complaint....and most of us feel a FAR FAR greater responsibility to the orginal victims....rather than the predictable later victims created by more affairs and A marriages. It's our mission to decide how to protect our members while upholding the elements of TOS that we agreed to when signing up here. It's not an easy balance. I think you're hoping to raise soem consciousness about this issue....and encourage people NOT to respond to those folks. I don't know how practical...doable that is....because the board is ever changing and so it' can't be "pinned down". In the absence of a message to folks to "beware" or a "shunning" of those people....if they are going to responded to...I hope the most experienced members will give them the benefit of lots of experience here.

We need better solutions.....aside from perhaps a "list" of miscreants....kwim? I don't think that forming a grass roots movement to run some folks off MB is going to solve this....it just gives some people too much power....and opens the forum to all kinds of censorship.

Self regulation is about the only thing that makes alot of sense in any kind of practical way....both for the posters and postees.

The changes that might want.....might need to be accomplished at a higher level....and if we just have a list...then we'll have to put Steve Harley, Jennifer Chalmers....and so on....on that list too because they don't always follow the equation that affair marriages can't be counseled or that exposure to the OPS is always warranted. What do we do about that? It's a real quandary.

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

JustJ, I am very glad for your reassurance that she is not looking for a scapegoat. That does not change the fact that what happens on a private board is simply none of her business. sorry!

I am very glad you had to chance to read it yourself. Yes, it is very good, that is why I posted it. Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What about OUR privacy here???

Who's looking out for that?

I think these are real concerns, and I tend to think there is some issue of discord here as well.

????

Perhpas affair M's can be counseled... IMHO, just not here. It is a slap in the face to the BS on this board. I don't think that it is reasonable to expect a suppport group for victims of a pedophile to welcome into their ranks a recovered pedophile that happens to be married to one of his victims.

I will give you an example... that school teacher that raped her student years ago (Laturno I think her name is). She went to jail... got out early and raped him again. Pregnant both times. They recently got married and used the same vomit logic that all of the affair "soulmates" tend to use. Do you see that woman as any less of a predator because she now has "legitimized" her marriage in the eyes of the law??? She still needs to register as a sex offender where ever she lives. I see an A marriage the same way... it started as a result of an abomination and NOW we are supposed to suppport it. Sure.. and while we are at it... perhaps it would be okay to invite Laturno to a grade school dance.
I hope you can understand where I am coming from.

And what does this have to do with me?

ML....I am very happy and quite satisfied to take your word. I've known you for a long time, and do not know you to be a liar....I trust you to be honest to me. If you tell me that people/posts from this board are not being talked "about" bashed, on your board without their knowledge, then I'll will take you at your word. I haven't presented your board as a "culprit" so I accept your word on that as well.

Betrayed:

As Pepper illustrates with those funny questionmarks, there really is no "privacy" on these boards. Emails aren't exposed, but you should only post stuff here you'd be comfortable posting to your wife, family, friends, etc. Because occasionally "privacy" lapses do happen.

The only exception is that there is a private pregnancy forum.

I personally miss the old days of one single forum. It was easier to keep track of everything then...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well I said I was going but I just can't let this one go.



As a one time member of aforementioned board I can assure you that bashing and talking about members of MB does indeed happen. Concentrated efforts are made to remove posters from MB or make it impossible for them to post.

It was started, as Mel rightly said, for privacy for some BS's who needed safety which I agreed wholeheartedly with.

Starfish, and I would be satisfied if you understood and respected that you are not in a position TO ASK, because it is simply none of your business. That is what I will accept. I am not in a position where I have to answer for the content of my private board. Not because I have something to hide, but because it is simply none of your business and you have no right TO ask. You have no CAUSE to ask.

Just imagine that I had the audacity to grill you about the nature and content of private discussions in a private area of SYMC so I could DETERMINE if I thought they were contributing to the unrest on another board? Would I be correct in DEMANDING that you reveal that content in order to prove your innocence to me? I think that would be a little outrageous, don't you?

And I betcha you would be screaming "witchunt" til the cows came home if I did that. You would be right if I did that.

So, surely you can see how offensive and out of bounds your questions are, star? You simply just have no right to ask. Sorry.

mkeverydaycnt:


While that might be your opinion, it's not the opinion of the Harley's (in a general sense). And as a betrayed spouse, I've counseled both wayward spouses and spouses in "affair" marriages---and never felt my face slapped. The allegory between this and pedophilia is distasteful and disingenuous at best.

That's not to say that there aren't "preditory" serial cheaters out there who deserved to be put off in solitary, but they are the rare exception, not the rule.

To MB veterans...

Is this debate (re: affair marriages) an ongoing debate which cycles in and out throughout the years? Or is this a new dilemma? Have you had the opportunity in the past to sort through this topic of debate and realize your own beliefs and stance on the topic?

Is this an ongoing issue that is fueled every so often by new people coming in? Can it be resolved?

I find myself no closer to making my own stand than I did a couple of days ago. Every time I start to lean to jump off the fence, something, someone, or some idea pulls me right back on.

I have always been blessed/cursed with an unussually strong ability to view opposing sides of a subject and see merit in both...(some call it wishy-washy, I call it extremely objective) this has helped and hurt me over the years... and I don't see it changing in this situation any time soon. (Mrs. W... the reason why I have not answered your taking sides question yet... it is turning into a much bigger question than I anticipated for me).

Shaden

Laturno was not a predator... she fixated on one person only... never had another case or claim against her... so the example is relevant to this situation... IMHO. And I can say that has someone that has been the victim of a pedophile and a WS. So, if that is disingenuine to you or distasteful, deal with it.

I never said that it did, MelodyLane. There is, of course, a difference between privacy and secrecy. You're certainly right that you can't break an agreed-upon privacy. Since I don't know what your terms of service are, I have no idea if there is a way to resolve the problem or not.

I've seen something similar elsewhere, and one thing that seemed to help was when actual members of the private board posted to say, "I haven't talked about [issue] on that private board." Since I don't know your ToS, I don't know if your members are even allowed to say that much, or to reveal who they are. (I'm assuming they can't reveal anything about anyone -else- on your board, otherwise it wouldn't be private.)

Jersey, MB is a completely open forum. There is no privacy here. God and everybody can see your underpants if you reveal them on GQII. (Try doing a Google search on your username and site:http://www.marriagebuilders.com to see what I mean.)

ML....you are the queen of audacity!! It's your audacity that is one of your best qualities. JMO. Frankly....it takes audacity to be a real advocate for anything. I won't criticize yours if you won't criticize mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Maybe you haven't noticed....but I haven't been over on symc for a very long time....so I would honestly tell you that I don't know what's going on in any private forums there....but generally speaking from a historical perspective...no, when I was there...I didn't see much bashing at all...even behind the scenes. A little...but usually that was met with resistance and a call for compassion and understanding.