nc007...

DO NOT pay attention to techie...He is a NEWBIE choosing NOT to follow the MB NARROW PATH...He needs to focus on HIS problems right now instead of posting to others in crisis...

Mrs. W

k

appreciate all input

is plan A still in effect?

Yes nc007, and remember, Plan A includes EXPOSURE...How we doing on that? Do you know where OM and his girlfriend live?

Mrs. W

i told her that she should bear with me because i was use to affection for 10 years and to suddenly stop is hard.

her reply was i cant expect 1 month to erase 10 years of "neglect"


she told our friends how despicable i was and how she is in love with her friend.

i know that i shouldnt take all what she said seriously. but it hurt like ******.

no no idea where they live.

dont laugh. but i feel like a total failure. total.

emotions are hard to get a hold of sometimes.

nc007....

you will make many little mistakes along the way. Other times you will think you made a mistake only later to find out you were dead on. It's a game really and your WW won't tell you when you are, in fact, winning. Your WW is addicted to a drug. In this case, OM is the drug. She will continue to act insane until OM is out of her life. Addicts don't appreciate their addictions being broadcast to others. That's why exposure works. But other than that you only control you. She can say what she wants and do what she chooses but that shouldn't change who you are, what you do and what you say. Your WW is NOT your guage to determine whether or not you are making progress. Discontinue internalizing her foggy statments. You only control you. As my wife said earlier, man up...be strong, confident and self-assured that no matter what happens you are going to be ok. You really are.

Get ready for your test. Stop obsessing about WW and worry about you, your son and right now...that test. Concentrate on being the best individual, Father and husband you can be. After the test lets talk about exposure cause the only BIG mistake you actually can make is to do nothing to bust up this affair addiction.

Mr. Wondering

I would NEVER laugh at someone in your situation nc007...I know that her words and actions right now are tearing out your heart...Your family is the most valuable thing to you, your feelings are very valid and understandable...

Understand that she is going to lash out at you in every way possible to try and rationalize and justify her behavior...Also, because there is a part of her that is afraid to trust any changes that you are making...You just continue making yourself into the kind of husband that you always aspired to be...You ACT, don't REACT...You just become a broken record with her, that you believe that your marriage can be better than it ever was before and that you will do everything in your power to make it so...Try to control the lovebusters, that is very important in Plan A...Come here to vent...

Ok, did you check out the websites that I provided for you in my earlier post? If those don't include Jamaica in their territories, try doing a google search to find some that do...THAT exposure is MANDATORY...IT MUST BE DONE...It could quite possibly kill this affair instantly, saving you all a lot of heartache...REALLY...Looking back at my own affair, IF Mr. W had have exposed to only OM's parents, my affair would have been stopped dead in it's tracks and have spared us much grief...NO KIDDING...EXPOSURE is the MOST powerful weapon that a BS has in their arsenal...YOU MUST FIND OUT HOW TO CONTACT OM's GIRLFRIEND!!!

Mrs. W

You are NOT a failure

You did the best you could and ANY marital problems you guys had were 50/50 her fault/your fault. However, she is 100% at fault for her decision to have an affair. You are not resposible for that choice.

Because it's all her fault and she internally KNOWS it, her brain necessarily must rationalize and justify such abusive behaviors by her. She must do this to you and others to convince herself that it's not her fault. The history rewrite is a famous method to achieve that. It's fog babble and though you may question it in the end you need to KNOW it's not true. You can NOT accept any responsibility for her destructive and abusive decisions. She FAILED you and it's NOT your fault.

Mr. Wondering

nc:

Once your WW sought her EN's from the OM, she shut you out. Until her A ends, no amount of reminding her of what you do for her, how you care for her, will change her perspective.

That is NOT 2 say don't be loving or caring or even reminding her (in moderation) that you do. It is 2 say that your own emotional well-being pretty much requires that you not put ANY stock in her reactions 2 the things you do during plan A. At some point, your efforts will likely have an effect, but she'll only change her perspective and stop rewriting your his2ry 2gether when she wants 2.

You are not a failure. I know others have already said this, but it can't be overstated in this kind of "crisis mode" stage you are at right now.

We all make mistakes, some bigger than others. Try 2 keep them in perspective, though. Most importanly, learn from them so that you become less likely 2 repeat them in fu2re. Equally important, I think, is 2 not equate 'mistakes' (a perception, really) with 'failure'. They're not the same thing. Think of them more as a trial and error process on the road 2 wisdom.

Because, I guarantee you, that at the end of this whole process, you will be a much wiser man for your experiences.

Remember 2 stand up for your family values, your integrity and morality. You will make it and you will make us proud.

-ol' 2long

There is no "one, true MB narrow path".
There are the general "Plan A/Plan B" descriptions that are here on the forums. However, they are not always 100% right for everyone, all the time


If they were, people would just say, "ok, read the guidelines and go do them". But rather, the value of seeking individualized counseling (ie: with the Harleys) is recognized, over and above just blindly sticking to the plan A/B stuff on the forums.

(and heck, I've seen plan A writeups from some folks that dont 100% agree with plan A writeups from other folks here. so even that isnt consistent here)

I've talked to Steve Harley multiple times. What he has told me, for my specific situation, directly contradicts what some people on the forums have been telling me to do, and contradicts the generalized plan A stuff.

[ironically, though, I think everything that I suggested, IS covered in various peoples' posts on "what to do in plan A". so I dont see what you're complaining about, MrsW.]


nc: If you're not going to try for your own MB counselling session, then try to take input from where you get it, and weigh it in terms of your unique situation.

I was in no way saying that it is "all over" for you. not at all. I was just saying, "stop pushing her so hard" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You probably wont be able to slow yourself down in that reguard for a while. I was in that position two months ago. I couldnt get myself to slow down, so wasted a few weeks "knocking on her door", so to speak.

I've stopped doing that. after a while, things have started slowly improving.

2long said a shorter, maybe more easily digestible version of what I was trying to say: it's no good telling how much you love her, etc, etc, because (for right now), she's shut you out. So, you have to wait for a better time for that sort of thing.

Ok Techie, and had your post contained any of these pearls of wisdom I wouldn't have said what I did...However, it really didn't matter what your post said after you said this...


Because my guess is that that is the message that was mainly heard by nc007, LOUD and CLEAR!!! Actually, that was quite well demonstrated in his response to you asking you if all was lost...Further, if you believe that it isn't a narrow path, then how could you think that he had "majorly blown it"? How would you have felt if that was one of the things said to you when you arrived here? I did not feel that it was at all productive and I feel certain that Dr. Harley did NOT say that to you in any of your calls with him, right? I have no problem with you techie, and am sure that you have many things of value to offer others, but let's stay away from the presumption that all is lost if someone makes a mistake here, because that is patently absurd, wouldn't you agree? So, in short techie, no worries, but if I were you, I wouldn't volunteer at a suicide hotline anytime soon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. Techie...Advice to you after reading your thread the other day...If I were you, I would NOT have any sort of formal invitation printed up to give to your WW for your anniversary dinner...That will NOT be well received by a WW...THAT is a great idea in recovery, however, and I sincerely hope that you are able to execute it one day...

nc007...

How are you today? How did your test go? Give us an update, k?

Mrs. W

well "mini-mom" i failed (funny huh?) missed it by 4 questions...........(insert more failing here) anyway i am going to reseat in 2 weeks time.

yesterday i had a major calm discussion with her.


she said she regretted telling me about her SF that happened once with this guy. and how it messed her up emotionally. she said that she felt trapped in our marriage and that she needed to be free.

i asked if i owned her. she said no.

being abused as a child by her father then in 5-6 relationship before me. abused by brother and felt trapped in a family company business. she wanted out from everyone.

this old "flame" is a good(?) friend of hers.

She cannot have anymore children. she said he is getting married.

STILL CANT FIND ANYTHING ON HOME MATERIAL OF THIS GUY.
STILL TRYING>

i told her that i will not agree with her to leave but i "understand" her.

I said (quoting 2long) Love is not a mushy feeling it is a commitment. a choice. and i choose to be your husband and friend. even if she leaves.

she actually hugged me. and held my hands for the first time in 3 months! (i DONT UNDERSTAND)

she said that she appreciated that if she goes(look like she is looking foward to this) that she feels good having a "friend" that she can run to.(so now i am her friend?)

the OM is clearly having a field day. and i am starting to feel ia little stronger. His "waterloo" is coming.

she has to be on "female medication now" (maybe its a good thing nothing happened in the SF department)

she said this morning that she remembered the first time we made love(WHAT THE HEL*).

i repeated that i understand she wanting to go but dont expect me to be happy with her decision.

she replied that we (we?) were fighting in the past few months and maybe this is best. She is trying to find hapiness. (who said the kid counted?)

we played "tag" a little (WW and myself) in the car before i left. she actually looked happier.

asked when was she planning to go? She doesnt know yet.

So resoutely i am still putting Plan A into effect.

at least i have changed from a slobbering fool to a bit more solid person.

Who knows maybe i can reattach my "bobitted" manhood back in time.

i am still praying that she stays and feel the difference that my son is experiencing in me.

she thinks i put my son up to it. she cant believe that a 5 Y.O. could say somthing like that W/O prompting. (****** I cant believe he said that either.)

told her i will always be faithful to my vows. she said she knows. i dont have to prove it she believes me.

wont call her today. I feel that it may be a bit too pushy.

I have my son to look after.

she said that she got married to me because she saw it would make me happy (and you stuck around for 10 years?)

must tell you thiugh that even though i put up a brave front i am very much afraid if that day comes when she walks.

praying to God that never happens.

pray for me.

This is good (If it's true...it may just be a form a manipulation to keep you off-balance, available and/or to keep you from exposing as surely you wouldn't want to stop OM from getting married and/or hurt OM' fiance) Remember, WW's lie...this may not be true at all.

That being said...you must still expose to OM's GF as he will likely abandon your WW very quickly to fix his relationship with his GF and soon to be fiance. Get the goods on OM and expose...the sooner the better. Be sure to mention, offhandedly, the tidbit your wife can't have children as OM may not be aware of this. If OM wants kids it's unlikely your WW has informed him of her disability.


The upside to this is by reestablishing a "friendship" you will be able to communicate with your WW for awhile. You can listen, listen and listen some more to her fog talk and calmly ask probing questions. You will be meeting her emotional need for communication and making deposits in her love bank. You MUST mind the LB's and refrain from acting desparate and needy. Review the do's and don'ts list oftne. This communication will make leaving you that much harder; and, if and when she does leave, makes missing YOU more likely and an eventual Plan B more effective.

The downside. WW's have a fantasy that they can just walk out on their marriage and everything and everyone will just get along. "We'll all be friends and my betrayed husband is OK with me leaving". "He understands this is the way things have to be. No worries." At some point in your "friendly" communications with her she needs to be disabused of the notion that you will forever be there for her as her friend if she abandons and divorces you. You are there for her NOW as her friend and husband and though you understand her leaving because she is not your prisoner (i.e.- the cage door of the marriage IS open)...you are not obligated to ACCEPT it. Eventually, if she walks out on you, you will likely find it healthier to be around friends and family that don't abandon you, live up to their commitments to you and don't abuse you with lies, manipulation, hurt and misinformation. It's important to do this calmly, in conversation and without LB's. Try to speculate and indicate only on what "friendship" means to you and not judge her friendship as she is still your wife and friend today. It's a delicate conversation that you may have to charge forward, retrench, delay and then charge forward again. You are not to TEACH WW...but let her perceive the likely realities involved in the decisions she is contemplating. Leaving you will not be as easy and "friendly" as she thinks.


This is good too. As long as things are going more smoothly at home. You guys are communicating and friendly then hopefully she'll never actually decide to leave. That doesn't mean you accept crumbs...you must still do the "Stick" of Plan A, however, the longer you can restablish you relationship at home the less likely she will leave ever. Keeping her home is important. It becomes very hard to work on a relationship while separated. But exposure will always be necessary because it is impossible to recover while an affair continues...home or not.

Mr. Wondering