love the 180 list.

printing it now.

If he were actually married, this makes a whole lot of sense. but I'm thinking that there is somewhat of a different dynamic with a "girlfriend", or even a "fiancee", than a spouse. from both sides of that pair.

from the OM side: what he did to nc's marriage is reprehensible. but in terms of his own relationship... he's not married to his GF. he hasnt sworn a lifelong vow to be faithful to her. ("yet").
In some ways, from his perspective, this could be a "fling" before getting married. almost acceptible, in some circles, if his fling wasnt married already. He could be potentially prepared to move on at this point.

and from his GF's side: she has "prepared" herself to be comitted to the OM. but she hasnt actually stepped in front of the altar with him. I would think that revealing what a schmuck he is, would have a significant risk for her dumping his sorry behind completely.
Which would then "Free up" the OM to wreak more damage.



I'm not against exposure all the time. I think in many cases, it's a very useful tool. But if exposure is a hammer, than not everything is a nail. There is some small chance that since this is merely a girlfriend situation, that exposure could make things worse.

OMG

Techie...you could not be more wrong.

The fact they are not married does not make it exposure any less necessary or effective. OM's GF still has a right to kwow about the truth in her life regardless of marital status AND she is still most likely going to fight for her man. Even if she dumps OM's butt it still brings reality to the affair and delivers consequences to OM. OM becomes a dumped, lying, cheatin' man regardless of the outcome of his relationship with GF.

Way to really target a fear of NC007 but this sad argument has been disproven time and time again here. Regardless of the outcome....exposing to OM's GF is superior to doing nothing and allowing the affair to continue and thrive in secrecy. It's easily the right and moral thing to do. Trust me, cockroach's scramble when the lights are turned on everytime. It's the "LIGHT" that has the desired effect not the resulting outcome that matters.

As far as your Question to me NC007. I felt much as you did for a few weeks after D-day. Like you, I was fortunate to find MB, develope a plan and get my feet back under me. Once I internalized that regardless of the outcome I was going to be OK, I was able to turn the outcome over to God. I was able to have faith again that His will would be done. I prayed for the ability to affect the changes I was capable of making and the power to accept those things I was incapable of changing. It was difficult but it was my life and I was determined to experience the bad times with dignity and integrity KNOWING that by doing so the good times in life would be that much easier to recognize and appreciate.

Good luck

Mr. Wondering

i am tired.

did as was told in plan A thinking that i would be OK last night. couldnt be more wrong.

an olsd friend of mine called from Canada.

she was amused and WW wondered if it was"Gods will" that she called.

i told her that ship sailed along time ago.

snooped around on the phone. no new #. but he called her over a dozen times yesterday alone. (hurt).

i was still composed until she asked about our son and him going with her.

OMG.

didnt know that you could have intense argument like what we did last night.

she accused me of being a neglected father. how i abused him.
(discipline him yes, abused him definite no no)

the n talked about the daily arguments in the car.dont remember half of them.

then she finally said to me. We are going to court.

i looked at my son and buckled. he was there. asking for a dance from us and turning up the radio.

i cant let him see us like that.

she said i implanted those words into him that he said saturday. (dont want to be with you i want to be with daddy)

up to now she cant believe it.

No love units left.

Eventually we calmed down and i told her why i am fighting so hard to save my marriage.

she asked what marriage.

as we continued. she explained that all her life she use to chase love and fell in love with the wrong people. He was her last true love and he looked out for her. She then became a christian and broke off the relationship.

as time passed we met and i fell in love with her as we talked and played. Now she said that she loved me as a friend not "in love" with me, but she tried.

the arguments in the last few months had taken their toll and she decided enough was enough. She told me that she found him 3 months ago. and rekindled the relationship.

i am devastated. all she said that we have would be friendship.

cant tell if its fog talk or real (seems real though.)

i said all right the cage is open fly free, but remember i will be here. go find your happiness.

then we started to talk about alot of things we havent spoken about. then unexpectidely MADE LOVE. she said despite whatever happens i am the best she ever had (cant tell now can i ?)

she asked to go again : i declined.

spoke some more. then she said there were times when she actually felt "in love" but the protection and security she needed was not in coming. All she tried to help me.

Now she said she sees progress. Who knows what the future holds?(cant take any more fog talk)

i am really tired to try fight for something that may have not been there from the beginning. Was my marriage false? did i fall head first into drunken love and bashed my brains out?

I told her last night that the reason i want to keep our son is that i dont want him around the OM. even if he just pass by. I want him to be stable.

she thought that i was laying down rules on her and trying to trap her using my son (can she be soooo blind?)

this is what started the argument.

dont want to harm her going thru court. cant let my son suffer like that.

It hurts to know that at age 35 i dont have someone who is "in love" with me.

It stunned me. So why fight to save some one who was never in love with me.

i told her if she wants to go its fine. still asking if i want to honor the college loan. Told her yes.

she said k

told her to persue her happiness and whenever she finds it let me know. my door is always open.

she wondered why i didnt call her yesterday.

funny.

i am not sad anymore nor anxious.

just feel empty and alone.

not crying but quiet.

Still plan "Aing" in hope and prayer.

Till she is gone.

this guy is going to hurt her.



this morning she hugged me tight. and kissed me on the jaw.

techie:

I see what you're trying 2 say, but the simple fact is that the best thing for nc 2 do in this case is 2 expose, and sooner than now.

Whenever in doubt, the truth is the best path 2 follow.

-ol' 2long

hang in there nc. you're better off than some. she still cares for you at the concious level, and even shows you affection spontaneously.

It's a terrible trial to just keep putting good stuff in, without seeing the positives you want. but on the brighter side.. you ARE seeing positives. she talks to you. she shows you some degree of affection. So, your marriage isnt a smoking hole now, even though it feels like it.
Dont think about what she is saying about your marriage; think about why YOU married HER. If those reasons still sound good to you, then hang on to them to keep you strong.

Just dont step over good boundaries to keep that affection coming from her. You stuck to one the other night, by not coming out to the car and "approving" her relationship with the other guy. good for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Aproving that in any way, is a definate no-no.

nc007...

Please stop buying her fog talk...I'm glad you "heard" her, but just don't "listen" to it all if you get what I mean...acknowledge and ignore...develop a duck's back...the stuff that she is telling you about never being in love with you is a history rewrite that she is using to rationalize and justify her behavior in her own mind...Please believe me...I DID THAT...My affair was with my old high school/college boyfriend...I promise you that I know what I'm talking about here...

If you want things to change you MUST expose...Have one of the ladies in your office call OM's house today and ask to speak to the lady of the house...When she comes to the phone you get on the phone and EXPOSE...I'm telling you that is the WAY to go...Please trust me on that...

If techie has cast any doubt for you in that direction because of the OM/GF situation go look up B0bPure's story...The OM in his situation had a girlfriend-NOT a wife...He exposed to her...The affair came crumbling down...Bob is in a recovered marriage today...

You are certainly free to take the advice of anyone here that you choose nc007...If it were me seeking advice here, this would be my criteria...I would seek out those people that had what I wanted ie a recovered marriage, and see what they had to say...Take that for whatever it's worth...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> KWIM?

Anyway, nc007, I don't have much time today, as it is our 9th wedding anniversary, I have to go and get ready...You take care of you...Again, you WILL be OKAY...Take heart...When Mr. W and I read your two posts of today before I wrote this one, our words were "He's gonna get his wife back more than likely"...No kidding...She sounds a lot like I did...Now, of course, we don't have a crystal ball, it's just that she doesn't sound any worse than any other WW here ever has...Pretty standard fare actually-she's just reading from the WW handbook-no kidding...You can do this...COURAGE IS IN THE DOING...Have you exposed to her parents and yours yet? Let's get moving!!!

Prayers for you, my friend...

Mrs. W

HAPPY 9th ANNIVERSARY WOOOOOOOOOPPPPPIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Wonderings.


go have a great time.

isnt it funny? she called me 6 times today. dont know why. said something about how was i doing. i dont have any strength today. maybe tomorrow. thanks 2long, techie. W's

Just feeling really tired. that "never really loved you" speech did quite a number on me.

i will recover. just going to take time. My son is my life now.

sorta hard to believe that 10 yrs is a lie.

nc:

It's REVISIONIST HIS2RY!

It is NOT TRUE, though your W thinks it is at this point in time.

My W said stuff like that for FOUR YEARS after d-day. I learned that it meant nothing about 3 years ago, and so for most of that time it didn't bother me 2 hear her say that.

-ol' 2long

she called me again today now the 7th. time. is she on a guilt trip?

does she thinks i am dying.?

Why the checkup all of a sudden.

i did tell her last night that if the OM had a choice he would drop her and run.

that brought out the venom in her.

i am so confused about how it got to the point of making love and sharing secrets?

really didnt want to think today.

just tired.

here is my hiding place, my little refuge.

feel safe talking here.

later.

Hang in there nc007.
Your WW will probably have more mood swings.
Take care of yourself as best as you can..
Try to do something physical like walking or working out.
It will take some of the stress out of your system and it will help you sleep.

Wow, that's more than my FWW called me during the first months after d-day. She may be on a guilt trip, she may not be. Doesn't matter, really.


Maybe. My W once told Rat Meat that she thought she might have 2 have me committed. Except that it pissed me off that she was talking 2 him about me, I have never heard anything funnier before or since! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Again, though. It doesn't really matter. So, instead of speculating 2 no end what she's thinking or doing, get her 2 speculate what's going on in YOUR head, and let her keep guessing. If you enjoy talking 2 her that many times in a day, then go ahead and answer the phone. If you don't, simply don't asnwer it. I did that a bunch of times with my W - just refused 2 answer the phone - and it was pretty effective.


Distract yourself from needing 2 know the answer 2 this question.


Try 2 remember 2 tell her only things beginning with "I feel" statements. But it is okay 2 remind her that you don't support adultery, and will do anything and everything you legally and morally can 2 stop it from disrupting your family.


Which usually means you did something RIGHT.


My W and I had great "makeup sex" several times after heated arguments for a couple years after d-day. It's okay 2 have sex with your wife, she's your wife! But many people refuse until their WS has been tested for STDs and proven clean. Of course, the A has 2 also be over for that 2 mean anything. You may want 2 wear protection, if you think she's in a PA.


Then I have the perfect read for you: "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. It's really a personal spiri2al growth book, doesn't deal with infidelity at all, really. But it was the single most helpful book I read after d-day. You can find an excerpt here, if you're interested:

http://iloveulove.com/spirituality/pon/ponch1.htm


We understand, and you are welcome.

-ol' 2long

called me again and asked how i sounded like this. told her i had a cold. (true).

deep in my heart i want her gone.

i cant take this pain anymore.

can a woman be so vicious as to destroy her friend (me ) for a former lover?.

do they usually realize what they are doing?

i am wiser for all that has happened.

Try 2 remember that nothing worthwhile is easy. Saving your marriage will be hard work, but you will be glad you did, or that you at least gave it all you could.


Yes, anybody can. Not just your wife.


Usually, most do. But it will take a while.


But you're not finished yet. You're a work in progress. Have you gotten an anti-D prescription yet?

-ol' 2long

no not yet

should i still kiss her cheek when we say goodbye?

feel like i dont want to.

Sounds like excellent plan A behavior, even if you don't feel much like it.

-ol' 2long