Dru,

Yes and guess what she called me before I could call her.

I told her I am very proud of the way she has handled the whole job sitch.

Then I told her how good it makes me feel she is now thanking me and noticing the things I do.

I also told her I noticed the way she didn't focus on the negative with the blanket thing. She laughed that I noticed she was about ready to go down that road. She said it wasn't your fault. I said but in the past, she iterupted me and said I know I would have focused on it even though you really didn't do anything wrong.

I said well I noticed it and I really appreciate it.

She said she wanted to cry.

Then she said I "hope" it continues that way. I said nope. She said what. I said take the word hope out of that statement and change it to it will continue this way. She said it will continue this way. LOL.

Hi HL,

I hope you two had a good weekend together.
I'm also glad to hear some of the things we talked about were useful for you...I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is a real turning point for you both!

As for me...no worries, I'm fine. Occassionally I need to take a step back from the boards so I don't get too involved in stuff that puts me in a bad headspace. H thinks I spend too much time here, so I need to be considerate of that as well.

We're hanging in there, and trying to put some of the suggestions from my other thread into practice...don't worry, I'll keep you posted.

Take care!
B.

Well kinda a difficult weekend. Friday we got a letter from a creditor. She was in a bad mood(undersandably) but the financial slide was because of her A.
So I try to have the attitude that we will work to get out of it. I left early from work to hang out. OH Well.

Usually she will go to a meeting so I suggested it because she didn't go on her Thursday meeting because of the job interviews she had.

So she woke up at 5:15am on saturday to go to a meeting. I have asked several times that she not go to morning meetings because it blows out the day for her. She comes home lays down then gets grumpy about 6pm. No different this time.

Last night she asked if she could go to a womans retreat. It is closed but her sponsor could write a letter as to why she should go. She asks me at 10:30pm. I said I would think about it. Didn't go well. I asked when she talked to her sponsor about it. She talked about it to her on Tuesday but waits until Sunday night at 10:30 to discuss it.

She started with the whole I am not her father thing and how she doesn't want a M like this. I didn't get upset with her.

She actually asked me if it would bother me if she wasn't supportive. I said no it wouldn't.

Now here is what bothered me is that she said she doesn't want to be in an M like this. Now I have talked about the Love Bank or as our first MC discussed the point system.

She is adamately opposed to those concepts. All I can take from that is she is not being honest. Every one weighs the negatives and the positives in some way. She says she doesn't. So my take away is that if I do something really nice she expects it.

I am going to wait for the MC to discuss the fact that now my new reality is that I really won't put into this M something I can't immediately take out or that hasn't already been put in.

Seems like she still feels entitled to a lot. In the past when I said to her I felt like she should put in more under the circumstances she has said "I am doing everything I can". Well then don't ask me or expect me to put in more then you are capable of putting in.

I will live within that reality because that is what it is right now.

No DJ but you shouldn't expect from someone what you can't give back.

She actually said that it would "ONLY BE" Friday, Saturday, and Sunday that I would have the kids by myself.

BTW my YS would have a soccor game on saturday and a baseball game on sunday. LOL.

The ONLY part is what gets me. REALLY. So you get a nice weekend in Santa Barbara and I ONLY have to take care of two kids by myself. Now in our whole M 9 years now, other then business trips, I have never been able to do that. LOL.

So I will see what her attitude is.

Oh and now because she found out on Tuesday I am a little skeptical of her motives for being so nice. Seems like we get to a point where she thinks she has done enough to ask for it.

Oh well other then that it is great.

But the good thing is I expected what I got so it isn't so bothersome.

Guardedly optomistic.

I am glad the other thread might be helping.

Hi HL,

Recovery is like that... good one day, bad the next. Dont put too much stock into the good OR bad coversations. This is going to take time, I agree to wait for MC to discuss.

I just read this on EN, by KAM:



With the kids, I'd say let her go and embrace your weekend with them (if all other factors are favorable for her trip).

You said you'd want full custody if you D's, sounds like you need some real-world experience - sports practices and all. Many mothers here on MB do it all... I know you can, too. Dont let that psyche you out, ok? Hang in there - Dru

Dru,

Oh it is not because of the kids. I do it all with them as well.

I actually get an attitude with both son's and now all of the kids in the complex if I do not play wiffle ball or football with them. LMAO.

It is hilarious they come to the door to see if both son's can play. Then when I try to send them out they say well you need to play too.

I think what got me most is the fact that I have felt throughout this whole M she has minimized my positive input. When she said IT IS ONLY it hit a bad cord with me. So here we go again. LOL. What I am asking you to do is no big deal, or I am entitled to it, or you should just do it. Do not expect anything in return either.

So I don't expect anything in return but now before I commit to something I have to work under that assumption until I SEE differently.

I know this sounds VERY VERY selfish. However there comes a point where you keep doing those things and get resentful or you stop doing them so there isn't that resentment.

I have no problem changing that in the future when I see a consistent pattern of behaviour and actions that prove to me that I am not being taken for granted.

BTW if I did get full custody it would be easier then this. I would only have 2 people with unrealistic expectations of me. LOL.

The FWW is very demanding and her mood has to be taken into consideration.

When it is just the boys and me it goes very smoothly because they know their boundries with me. They shift greatly when FWW is around.

I am trying to be understanding and giving but that only takes an M so far when it is one person putting in more then the other.

I would feel fine with this whole thing if she actually believed in the LB and would consider this a deposit. But since she has stated over and over again that she doesn't then I have to believe her.

The days of me doing things without a reasonable expectation of her doing things for me too is pretty much over.

The way I look at it is: Can I reasonably expect for her to do it for me?

If yes then I will say yes.
If no then I will say no.

Like I said before she has told me she has done all she is capable of doing and if that is not good enough maybe I should find somene else. My thought is that if that is all you are capable of doing then don't ask or expect me to do anymore then that.

I know this is tough. I am not concerned about it right now. All I can say is that maybe she will finally understand (as kid rock said) "you get what you put in and people get what they deserve. I aint seen mine, no I ain't seen mine."

HL- What can I say seems like you have your act togethre.

Dru- Thanks for sharing that...I also shared it with AmI. It added a little peace of mind!

Dru,

I agree with your statment and that is why I have said that I want to see a consistent pattern of behavior that I can see to make things better.

I am looking for an M that is much different.

The little things she seems to be able to do but the things that IMVHO have caused harm continue.

For instance she almost refuses to talk to me about issues in what I would consider an adult manner. Waits unti 10:30 at night to ask if she can take a 3 day mini vacation. Well she has said she needs her sleep.

So one of my biggest issues is how she enlists the aid of her allies to break a dead lock. IE she wants to go and I may not be a 100% on her going. So yesterday she called me on the way home from her meeting to tell me she really wants to go but will give me time to think about it. But she really wants to go. She already talked to her sponsor who now will baby sit one of the days so she can go.

That is not the issue. The issue is this is her taker coming out and then minimizing my contributions to make this possible. Do I think it is the biggest thing in the world? NO but I want to be a taker too.

So now she rallies the troops. Is this punishment for her A? No and I can honestly say no to that. What it is, is me wanting to know that what I put in I can take out.

At this point in our M I do not feel that way. Quite frankly if someone were to take a 3 day retreat to clear their mind it should be me.

The real funny thing about this whole sitch is that I had dozed off on the couch when she asked me. So my head was kinda fuzzy. Before I could process the info she started on her diatribe about me not being her parent, it being only..., and she didn't want to be in an M like that. Followed by how my sister, her sister and plenty of other people in M's do these things. Well in my M it hasn't happened on my side.

Had she just asked and let me think I would have probably said go ahead and try.

So now she gave me a one week deadline to agree to do it. LOL. Not to say no.

So I feel just like I did before in this M. Not taking into consideration what MY part would be in this.

I almost feel like saying no because of the way she has handled it.

Reminds me of how she ended up going on that fatefull trip back to NY where she had her affair. Wants something. Enlists the aid of others. Minimizes the impact of her going. Then just does what she wants regardless of what I think. HMMM.

Now she doesn't want me to act like a parent. However she had no problem asking daddy for help with her resume, typing it up, watching the kids, making tough financial decesions, and doing the paperwork for her unemployment, and finally calling me up 10 minutes after I walked out the door to ask me for directions. All of this because she doesn't know how to do it or I am much better at doing it then her.

How much do I have to stop doing so she starts doing?

Well, she was starting to turn the corner, did you two book MC? When do you go? Do you have a copy of HN/HN? Exposed her to the concepts of POJA and PORH?

I'd think this might be a good opportunity to discuss POJA. What WOULD it take for you to be enthusiastic about her going? Much like moving to NY, dont agree to this is you think it would be bad for the family.

It's an AA retreat? How about you agree if she agrees to a Marriage Recovery retreat - that gets booked and paid for before she leaves? Or you go fishing for a weekend with the guys?

I keep thinking that she's barely in AA, JUST stopped drinking, MB is hard to apply at this time. You've got a long road ahead of you, her handling this badly doesnt surprise me, nor should it you. You're JUST starting to see some good from her, dont let this throw you off.

I'd keep to the 'I' statements. You're not 'not letting her go', you're telling her that 1) it hurts you, 2) you cant handle it now, 3) you cant afford it 4) x is more important... whatever. You cannot stop her, you can explain your truth to her. Keep this clear so she cant pull the parent-issue with you. Just my thoughts.. hang in there - Dru

Dru,

Thank you. I understand all of the issues I guess knowing there is a problem is the first step.

My FWW does not agree with POJA or almost any of the concepts discussed here.

That is why sometimes I feel futile in my efforts.

Her handling it badly does not suprise me either. I am trying to at a very minimum instill a cause and effect type of thinking in this M.

Every action has an equal or opposite reaction. I don't usually get equal. LOL.

But as a percentage it is getting higher because I have pulled myself out of a lot of the things I used to do that were her responsibility.

She is telling me, which I am finding hard to believe, that the weekend is free. It is usually $300 to go but it has been full for quite some time. Since april I think. Each chapter can I guess nominate people that are new to the program that didn't have a chance to book. Now she is saying these people get to go free. I don't know if I buy that. I could understand them leaving space open and the person paying to go. Something doesn't sound right to me.

Oh and I forgot she has been interviewing at this company. there are less hours. I suggested she ask what the pay was so we could determine if it is a good fit financially. Three interviews and lots of emails and phone calls and she still doesn't know what it pays. Geez so if this isn't a good fit financially then she did get some interviewing experiance but all job search stuff is on hold.

I dont' think my fww will ever work within POJA or POHR. That is something that bothers me. I wouldn't mind if she accepted what the reality of the sitch is based on not living within those concepts. Less trust and less willingness on my part to pick up the slack.

She has a concept of how she should be treated that is independant of how she treats others. In other words the world should treat her well even when she is not treating others well.

So MC is this week sometime. No appt. yet until we can figure out babysitting. Today I will make the calls to get a steady babysitter on the days we need one.

Oh see another thing. Working hard to get to the retreat but no work on getting a sitter for MC etc.

I don't want to sound negative. I am just trying to be realistic but she doesn't want to live in the reality that she has created. Frustrating but hopefully with work she will get it.

I am sorry. This will take time. Are you doing anything nice for yourself? Be sure to recharge your batteries, when you get a chance. This stuff is HARD. Hang in there - Dru

Dru got a point...please don't negate the positive stuff she's been doing because she hasn't learned to ask for things in an adult way. She's trying an that's the difference than before. Did you ask her why she wants to go? Why is it important to her?

Also, I would consider taking a little vacation myself given the situation! When the last time that the two of you have been away from each other for that long? A? It might be a good idea to spend some time away from each other. Also, can you see that she may not be rallying the troops but trying to be concerned about you and that's why she has a babysitter for one day?

Past experiences aside, could she be trying to make it easier on you should you let her go? Just asking. WHat if you gave her the benefit of the doubt just this once? Honey, thank you for trying to make it easier on me with the kids but I can handle they. I appreciate the thought! Would that be different from the past? If you changed your reaction?

How beneficial do you think this weekend would be for her? Do you think if could have a positive impact on your M, particular, if you changed your reaction to the way she asked to go?

Maybe just this one thing will change a lifetime...

just my thoughts...

Rin,


I will never negate the positives. As a matter of fact sometimes I think I have held on to the positives and given them more weight then they really deserve. To be frank I think that is the one of the contributing factors to the fact that we are still married.

Remember she started discussing this with her sponsor on Tuesday and didn't bring it up until Sunday night. During that time is when I started to see some positives. Now this can cause a person to think maybe she was acting that way to get something she wanted. There is a clear pattern of that in our M. I am not saying that is why it happened. Heck I don't care why it happened. LOL.



It could very well be but it is not really an option you see my YS is playing fall baseball and fall soccer. Soccer on saturday and baseball on sunday. We don't have the schedules yet but he will probably have games those days.

Do I think it will have a positive impact. I don't know and that is why I would be hesitent to agree.

You see so far she has not explained her concept of how things should work. My concept is simple when I do something like this it should be put in the positive column. Depending on how much it means to her and how much extra I do for it to be possible I think I should get some credit.

However she doesn't seem to think that way. Seems like a sense of entitlement.

Now the only breaks we get are when I have to go away on business or when she takes a trip for herself.

Somewhere in that statement lies a problem. I mean in the last month she has wanted to move to NC, she asked to go on a trip to NY, and now the retreat.

Not one time saying you know HL you deserve some time off from this. Why don't you go.....

Not to mention the lack of appreciation I get for watching the kids when she goes to meetings. It has become an expectation that I do these things.

Really what it all boils down too is I feel like the efforts I put in are minimized and my faults have always been maximized.

Right now she gets 2 nights a week, at least to go to meetings. So I get home and she leaves. I cook both boys dinner, clean the kitchen, get them showers, get them ready for bed etc.

That is over 100 days a year if you look at it long term. Then add the other stuff in and we are looking at 1/3 of my years nights doing that. I think that is very nice and giving. I mean I could leave the place a mess. I could wait for her to get home to help with the kids but I don't.

Now I can't even expect to get that in return.

Look when I told her what I wanted after the A she kept saying I am doing the best I can. I am doing the most that I can. If that isn't good enough maybe you should leave. Well OK now I believe you that you are doing the best you can and the most you can. If that is the case this is just another instance of her getting more then she puts in.

I am pretty much done being the absolute giver because I can do more.

It is my belief this is a partnership. So far I am a 50% partner doing a lot more then 50%.

I am not trying to be a jerk or mean but there comes a point that you want a return on investment. She has assured me that isn't going to happen.

I should be happy with an occasional card and some sweets when she goes to the store. That is fine in a normal relationship.

Heck sometimes at the end of the week I am exhausted from these things. Now she wants to go recharge.

Hello there are two people here. What about the other one.

Suggesting any thing that costs money at this time is out of the question as well.

So really no guys weekend fishing trip or golfing trip. Wish it could happen but I have this sense that you try to get out of a financial hole.

So here I sit in almost the same exact sitch before.

I kinda snapped at her a little this morning so she is having YS call me.

So she can add this to the list of things that I have done that she says don't mean anything if we get into a fight.

So far nothing I have done matters because I actually got upset with her later.

I almost want to say that until MC is over and we have a good Idea where we are heading I don't want to do these things.

Because when and if we get into a disagreement you tell me it didn't mean anything because I got upset with you later.

Hi HL,

Slow down hon...you're getting into that circular argument habit of yours;-)

To make sure I've got it right...the bottom line is that you're not happy with the way the idea of the retreat was presented right? You'd like to see more consideration and appreciation for the things you do. Fair enough.

Ok, rewind a bit and stop the 'he said, she said' or the 'she does, I do' stuff. You're engaging in her stuff again...don't forget to detatch.

Hmmm, isn't that interesting!
Well, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way.
Wow!, How do you plan to handle that?

Negate the chats for the last little while and just talk about the real issue - you're feeling a lack of consideration in the way she presented the idea of the retreat. Yes, it would have been better if she let you know as soon as it came up instead of waiting for days - she owns that one...there's no need to play into it any more.

As far as the timing goes, try to remember that she doesn't think like us 'normies'. It didn't occur to her that 10:30 at night was too late for such a major topic of conversation. It popped into her head, and she just blurted it out. Nope, not the way we would do it, but it's the way an alcoholic's head works. Speak first, think later. Tough to take I know, but it's a by-product of the disease. It will improve in time, but first she has to learn about empathy...and that comes after steps 4 - 7.

I know it's too little too late - and that you question her motivation, but she did make an effort to help out babysitting. I know you don't really need a sitter - but she DID make an effort - it's just that she doesn't understand your needs. You don't need help with the kids, just appreciation for what you do with the kids. I think she's misinterpreted that one. Any chance of having a conversation in that regard?

On the topic of the retreat...these are pretty intense program and personal development functions. It's not all R&R. Most of them are quite structured and require a fair bit of pen and paper work. She'll be asked to dig inside herself and share what she found. Then it will be discussed with the group. Something like that may help give her some insite into who she is as a person and how she lives her life.

It is true that groups can 'sponsor' members who can't afford the cost to attend. Most groups have a budget set aside for that type of thing. As an example, my H and I recently attended a 3 day AA function. Tickets did need to be purchased in advance, however our group bought more tickets than were needed and handed them out to those who expressed a need or desire to attend, but couldn't manage the cost.

I know this is a tough one for you under the circumstances, but it could be a good chance for her to move forward with her program. At the very least she'd come away with some personal and/or spiritual development.

It might help to narrow things down a bit. Just deal with the issues at hand instead of the on-going habit of how these things tend to happen. It isn't about the multitude of mistakes in the past - it's about this one issue. I know it's tough, but try to have the 'just for today' mentality.

I don't know if that helps any...but if nothing else try not to let the growth of the mountain get out of hand ok?

I'm sorry it's been yet another tough go HL...just remember that you have the tools to deal with it. It may not get better as fast as you'd like it to...but it will get different if you keep applying the things you've learned over the last while.

I hope you guys can work it out, especially considering the progress you were making a few days ago.

Take care,
B.

Banyak,

I hear you, thanks.


The thing is that she has said over and over when I want to talk about M issues etc that I shouldn't start a conversation that late. I know she is not a normie however during a whole bunch of our discussions she fixated on the time and how late it was. After hearing for 3 years that I was the bad guy for starting a topic after 9:30 I did it too late. I kept saying to her that when she wanted to talk it didn't matter what time it was. She said she never starts conversations that late. That just irks me a little.


So it is the way I would do it. Popped into my head blurted it out only to be chastised for starting a conversation that late. It is very difficult to hear how wrong it is to do that only for her to do it to me.


In there lies the problem. Over the last 6 years or 3 years or 1 year she has focused on how I have done things. IE the conversation and basically told me I was wrong. I need to take ownership of it. Now she is doing the same things she has told me got her angry or made her upset. This is not the only time or issue this has occured.

So imagine waiting for the kids to go to sleep and you say to your S ..... only for her to always take issue with that.

As a matter of fact it happened two weeks ago. Then to do it yourself. It really ticks me off.

I think honestly now that I think about it that is really what is bothering me soooo much about this.

So the past is affecting today. Her words, deeds, and actions about how wrong I was for doing that then her doing it.

So what do you say. Hey there are a few things that bothered me about it the biggest is the time you started this conversation. You have told me time and time again I shouldn't start conversations that late but then you do it. Are you saying it is ok when you want to but when i want to it is not ok. Heck I pointed out the fact that she did that about moving back to NY. Never did a light bulb go on that she would do the SAME EXACT THING AND HAS AND WILL IN THE FUTURE. That let her be the victim always gave her an out.

So I want to move forward. But I have learned a lot of lessons from the past.

We have MC tonight so maybe we can discuss this issue.

I hate to say it but this is really just typical. She does something it is OK, I then do it and it is not OK, She does it again and it is OK. That is not an equal M.

I think at this point I am going to just say yes and let her go.

I have seen progress. I am going to tell her though that it isn't as easy as she makes it sound. The effort I have to put into her going.

I hear you HL...and I know it can be maddening.
My H has a similar habit with the double standards - it drives me nuts.

Sometimes when I talk with him about it we can make some headway, and other times it's like talking to a brick wall.

I tend to have more success when I generalize first. I let him know that the double standards in our relationship are frustrating for me, and that they cause me to have feelings of resentment towards him - that seems to be a term he understands. (maybe because it's a 'program' term?)

He doesn't like to be resented so he'll ask me to give specific examples about things that made me feel that way. Since he's the one asking for specifics he tends to be more open to hearing what I have to say. At that point I can bring up the issue that upset me and he'll make an effort to understand where I'm coming from. Sometimes we'll even get to the point where he'll say he can understand why I feel the way I do.

Then he'll make an effort not to repeat the behavior for a while, but eventually it'll happen again and we'll need to go through the same process.

The good news is that the time between these conversations has been getting longer and longer, but I know what you mean about how frustrating it is that they need to happen at all.

I hope MC tonite went well, and that your W starts to see things a little more from your perspective in terms of the work involved on your end to make things happen for her.

Hang in there HL...there's another upswing on the roller coaster just around the corner!

Hi HL,

I hope you don't mind me dropping in here. I think you're generally doing really well under really difficult circumstances.

I had a few thoughts about your last post.


HL, this is what you said. So I am a bit confused as to why you are surprised and annoyed when she started a conversation late. You told her that it was ok by you.
The question is, is it, or isn't it, ok with you to talk about serious issues after, say 9:30 at night?

Forget for a moment what is ok for her. Its irrelevant.

You are two different people and different things will be important for each of you. Thats normal.

If its ok with you, then accept the differences. If its not ok, its dishonest to ever say that it is!



These were HER feelings at the time. It sounds as though she stated them as DJs, instead of taking ownership of them (ie did she use you, you instead of I, I?) BUT, my point is, do those same things bother you or not? It really doesn't matter what bothers her. Its irrelevant.

Example: My H is very bothered by noise. I am a heavy sleeper and came from a noisy family, and it really doesn't matter to me what he does at night. I am very quiet around him at night. BUT, I like things (clothes, rooms etc) to be clean and uncluttered. Out of sensitivity to me, H does more cleaning than he would normally think is necessary.

This did not come naturally!! It can so easily turn into tit for tat.... you don't clean so why should I care about being quiet? etc... this happens when the LB is empty and resentment is high. It sounds to me like your resentment is sky high. Maybe you can work with your MC to find ways to reduce your resentment levels.

Smur,

Thanks for the perspective. I guess you are right.

One of my biggest concerns in our M is my FWW not living within her own boundries. Someone wrote that boundries teach people how to treat you and how to act around you.

No it doesn't bother me that she talks to me at 10:30 at night with a caveat. That is she is actually willing to discuss the issue. To this day I think we need more discussion on issues like this.

It just really bother me sometimes because I feel like it is a do as I say and not as I do relationship.


Yes they were HER feelings at the time. You see taking ownership when it matters is also a problem. If she does something that bothers me or vice versa. There is a pattern of her waiting to take ownership until it is really irrelevant.

It is part of being honest and open to me. If she does something and it upsets me the easiest way to difuse the situation is to make it seem like I am overreacting. I have said time and time again I don't care if it would bother you it bothers me and you should respect that. I agree there are differences we have. There should be a mutual respect like you and your H have.

If it wouldn't bother her just the acknoledgment that she respects the fact it bothers me and would try to change that is all I really want. But in the face of doing something that she knows would bother her keeps her from taking ownership.

For example she flirted a lot I didn't like it. We had discussions fights and conflict. She minimized it every time. One night we go out I flirt. She gets upset calls it a night. Mad at me like I was at her. Never accepted the incremental enforcement of my boundries. Then the very next week we go out and she flirts again. I get mad she says I am overreacting.

Now even if she was right and it wouldn't bother her she should still respect my boundry. But it makes it worse that she is crossing her own boundry.

I use this example a lot and it is not that I am fixating on it but it is the easiest example for this type of action. There are ton's more just like this.

I really want that part of the M to change. I believe that crossing your own boundry and denying it is there makes it hard to change that. IMVHO it is hard to make those consessions when it really wouldn't bother you because you may not be aware you are doing them. It would be easier to make that change if you thought wow that would really tick me off.

We went to MC last night and I think it will really help with this issue.

Well, looks like you are positive about MC...Good for you!

HL-I've often wondered the same thing as smur in regards to your resentment. I'm not bashing you...please don't get me wrong...but I see...FWW does thing = negative...FWW does thing = still negative...

Perhaps I've missed it...if I did I'm sorry...can you list good things about her, good things that she does...

I know I would like to hear more good things about her and what she does good...but frankly...I hear lazy, unkept, selfish, bad mother...that's what I hear...

Like I say if I've missed these things...please point them out to me and I'm sorry that I did...

You have always had a great perspective with my sitch and have helped me sooo much...I only hope that I can do that for you...

HL... if I missed it in this thread, I apologize.. but is this a retreat for women only or is it co-ed?

MK

It is a women only retreat.

Rin

My resentment is a product of many things.

My FWW is not lazy or unkempt. She is now a much better mother then when she was drinking.

The good things are she is a nice person. She is very attractive.

It just seems to me that she is having a very difficult time getting out of the taker mode.

I don't know how to articulate it as well as I would like.

I know I am not the greatest husband in the world.

I just at some point don't want to feel as though I have to put in more because I am capable of it.

I am not saying she is lazy or anything like that. Maybe she is right I am able to do more. But I would like to think that I can and will get something in return.

Maybe I have started shifting toward selfishness myself.

I will figure that out as MC goes. I am also going to start IC in a few weeks. He urged the FWW to definately go and said I might want to consider it too. Heck I want it. LOL.

I guess even if my FWW just valued my contributions that would be a good start. Or if she can't do as much as me maybe I get some grace when I screw up.

I don't know the answer. I want to find it.

She said last night she doesn't like the parent/child dynamic that the MC picked up right away. I don't either. I want to be a 50 50 partner.

What is scary is I don't even know what to ask from the FWW to make it that way.

So I guess I am on a big road to discovery and it just started.

Think I am rambling.