Hi there FNM,

That sounds like an explosive MC session. I'm sorry for your pain.

Her anger seems to be simply the aggressive part of the P/A coming to light... its nothing new, it was there all the time. MC is all about bringing out hidden emotions, and that is exactly what has happened.

She seems to confuse her feelings with facts. Ie if she feels angry, therefore 'you are an idiot'. This is probably the reason why last week she told MC that you are her best friend, and this week she told MC that she hated you...she has mixed feelings at different times (as we all do in all relationships) including tenderness and anger.
That must be confusing and distressing to live with. It does mean that you can't rely on her words to mean very much at the moment.

You say
On the other hand, most of your last posts are devoted to her, and the things she has said or done or not done. I guess you know your posts about her are full of DJs. I am not saying this to chastise - the sense I get from your posts is that you are still angry with her, using sarcasm etc. With some reason. FNM, IMO anger is completely normal and understandable. I guess the issue is that its hard to see things clearly through anger. It tends to cloud judgement.

Would you consider taking some time off to care for you, and you alone? Doing some fun or relaxing or just centring things and taking all the time you want to decide whats best for you and your kids? That way you can decide without anger.

I understand if you feel like filing to protect yourself from verbal abuse and EN neglect. If thats the case, would you consider centering yourself until you can tell her in a very honest, open, non-DJing way ? Including only your own feelings, sticking to 'I' statements ('I think that you...' does not count! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). If you are serious about the changes and growth that you have made, this is an important challenge to put the skills to good use.

It sounds like you have accumulated resentment over such a long period of time through not enforcing your boundaries. She may have come to believe that you have no 'real' boundaries.

Silent,

Yes it is tiring. It gets to the point where by the time everything is said and done I feel like the energy I am putting and have been putting into this M are just draining me.

Smur,

The resentment about the boundries is not for a lack of effort on my part. I guess the only regret I have now is not leaving a while ago. When it became apparent she wasn't going to respect my boundries I should have done more to protect myself but I didn't. I regret that.

I think she doesn't believe I have any boundries.

I think in this forum I have to opportunity to say what I want to say to her.

I mean at this point I am done with the waffling.

I have made a commitment to myself I will not DJ or LB with her. I am done being the bad guy for getting angry or upset that she is not meeting my needs.

It is what it is at this point. Either she realizes in a short period of time her waffling is killing this M. She either picks a TRUTH and sticks too it or I leave.

I have accumlated too much resentment over these things and she keeps acting in a way that can cause more.

I am now just focusing on me and my needs. I am good at I statements the problem is this. I say I am hurt when you speak to me that way. She starts the waffling. She deosn't talk about the topic.

For instance I said "I felt really hurt and it bothered me you called me and idiot and said you hated me." Her response was "see I can't even be honest in the MC. What good does it do that I feel like I can't be honest." I can't see how that addressed her calling me those things. So I said well you know we have been talking about these fights and how you were so innocent and I just blew up and here you are continuing what got us there. So I will say again "I really felt hurt and it bothered me when you said those things and if that is you being honest I don't know what to say.

Then we have a revision of history that she refuses to let go in light of so many facts that say she is wrong.

I had her arrested for domestic abuse. The focus the arrest and not the abuse. Here is what happened after the arrest. I went down and bailed her out of jail. I went with her to court to help her out. I helped her get a lawyer. I did not abide by the restraining order against her. The DA had a slam dunk case because she verified to the police she hit me, it was in the police report. Her lawyer told her if I lied on the stand and said I made it up this would all go away. I had to testify or I would be held in contempt of court. So I checked with a lawyer and he said if I lied on the stand I could kiss custody of my children good bye. If I was honest and she was convicted she could kiss custody of our children good bye.

I talked to the DA as I was ordered to do. He said he had to proceed with the case. It is not me against her it is the state against her. The state would not drop a slam dunk case especially against a woman because it would seem like favortism. There is a zero tolerance policy. So he asked if I would be ok with a plea deal. I said yes. They pled it out so she didn't do jail time, it didn't go on her record as a felony and she got anger mangement for half of what it would have been. Again if I said no and told them to go forward she would have been convicted.

Her version. I had her arrested and did the best I could to get her convicted. I met with the DA to screw her. I left her in jail. Sorry you got released as soon as possible.

I have told her this 20 times and she still goes back to her truth.

Not only that but then she keeps skirting the fact she hit me like it was no big deal. The big deal is that I had her arrested.

I do not allow violence in my home. I have never raised a hand to her or my children.

Now what am I to believe here? I said to her I had two choices have you hit me until I left or have you removed. I chose not to be beaten out of my home.

I said you had already emasculated me by having your A and now you chose to try to emasculate me even more. I could have put you through a wall. She said even the cops were saying bad things about you. I said I know and I almost sued the police department for that.

So I have given her the facts and she refuses to even consider anything that contradicts her statements.

To be honest I wish I would have left her in jail and pressed forward now since that is what she thinks I did anyway.

So she wants me to let go of her stuff(the honest account) and she refuses to let go of my stuff, by having her own skewed view of the events. Duh that doesn't sound like a good equal partnership.

I honestly think at this point we have talked about me having her arrested more then we have talked about her A.

How can that be.

Whoa! I see what you mean. She seems to turn the focus off of the subject quite well, and does not empathize well, as you describe it here. How can one raise their hand against another and not expect the consequences. Hmmm, that's a little off balance.

I asked, through my intermediary, to have WH change his address (so I no longer receive his mail) and get the LSA together. He's very cut and dry on his response, but I wonder how he curses my existence by 'making' him do all of these things. I wonder if, in his mind, I'm taking his life away, his home. I can see the strategy working in his head; turn focus away from the real subject at hand. I'm speculating, of course, but I can see how frustrating dealing with the behavior can be.

Ok so chew on this then. LOL. My FWW was staying with MY aunt on her trip. My Aunt figured out she was having an A. My FWW was getting ready to go out on a date with OM and my Aunt told her she wasn't going to watch our kids for her. Her kids were her responsibility. My FWW got into my Aunts face and it turned into a fistfight. Between the time of that fight and my FWW hitting me she maintained my Aunt started it and she should never have raised a hand to my FWW. Meanwile the OM lieved in my Aunts basement apartment. Now chew that for a minute and think to yourself. I would have slapped the taste right out of my FWW's mouth if I were my Aunt. For any or all of these things. Carrying on an Affair in her house with her family around. I mean in her house. Her son had a room next to OM. Her girls and my boys were upstairs. Her family was babysitting my kids so she could carry on with OM.

My Aunt actually had to chase them down one night because my Son had a 103 degree temperature. Finally called the restaruant they were at.

So her side on that is my aunt should have never raised a hand to her but it was ok for her to do it to me.

I haven't even tried to rationalize that. LOL.

I just sent her an email regarding all of this. The friends hating me, her version of the past, the arrest and her telling me she has been honest. So we will see. I don't care if it upsets her or whatever. I really don't care. I am tired of her manipulating everything.

If this doesn't open her eyes nothing will and I can honestly say I have tried.

I remember reading about this incident a while back. I can't imagine making my kids a part of my A (if I ever had one). That's sort of makes my skin crawl. I certainly wouldn't want my family or anyone else's aiding and abetting me in my betrayal. I would feel disgusted with myself. I guess I can understand that the alternative to owning your mistakes and dealing with the pain you have caused your ENTIRE family, is to use excuses and flimsy explanations to put the 'blame' on someone else. I'm sure that taking it all on yourself is painful as H3LL. I'm certainly not excusing your wife's behavior, but maybe she's afraid to face her mistakes. It's not right, and not fair, but it may be her defense mechanism (as many other WS's have said - can't we just forget about the past?) My answer--UH, NOPE!

The kids part was bad. It was not her family aiding her it was my family. MY Aunt not hers.

The point though is when my aunt supposedly attacked her my aunt was wrong. My aunt knew you were betraying her dead brothers son. UM if that doesn't cause some type of hostile reaction then I don't know what will. LOL.

It is a defense mechanism for her. I know that but sooner or later you have to realize your defense mechanism is causing more harm.

She has blamed my cousin for asking her to go out the night she slept with OM. Cousin and OM were friends. She knew OM was going out with them and she chose to go. She blamed me for her A. She blamed my Aunt for the fight. She blamed her alcholism for a lot of it. She blamed me for all of the problems pre A. She has actually taken ownership that she didn't have to have an A. But says our M was over anyway. News to me. LOL.

Her problem IMVHO is her attitude that she isn't disgusted with her actions. That might cause action on her part to try to fix some stuff. She holds onto I am a good person that made a bad decesion. UMMM.

So can I foget about the past. NOPE. I am willing to move forward under the premise that My M will be better then it was before the A. If I can have that I will be happy.

Heck I forgot to mention my FWW has actually uttered these words at least a dozen times since the A. Just because I did it for the OM doesn't mean I am going to do it for you. Once she actually said I didn't do it because I knew you only asked because I did it for him. Meanwhile she has maintained he meant nothing to her and she could do much better then him. UMM if he meant nothing and you could do better then him what does that mean about me. I mean less then nothing. LOL.

So she has my email. I explained the domestic abuse, her friends hating me, her idea she has gone over the A a million times and how bad our M was pre A. I am not going to discuss it with her for at least a few days. I am not going to set myself up for her hostility.

I am going to say what I said in the email is how I feel. I am not judging you on your past I am trying to give you my version of the past. You don't need to agree or disagree with it. I have never been able to say it without interuption or without having a fight. It is evident you keep sticking to your side and I just want you to know mine. If you would like to move forward just consider what I have said.

If you try to pick it a part and call it untrue I am willing to take a lie detector test as long as you will to. You can pick all the things you think I am being untruthful about and I will do the same. I am tired of having a false history held against me. Especially when you are claiming memory loss as a reason for you dishonesty. LOL.

Hi FNM,

I dont see the point in sledge-hammering her with that email.

You are mad. Dont react right now. OK?

More later - Dru

frog - please get hold of yourself. You are doing exactly what your P/A wife wants you to do, which is lose your mind and have your head explode so she can be the victim once again.

From what you have posted here all this time, your wife has very serious emotional problems that you are not going to be able to help her with. She is P/A to the core and is too emotionally immature to be able to stop this without intensive therapy.

Calling my H on his P/A behaviour when I saw it made a real difference, but that does not seem to be having an effect on your wife except to make her all-out aggressive instead of just passive/aggressive.

But in any case - please stop letting her destroy you. You will NEVER talk her out of this and your pain will NEVER be enough of a reason for her to stop. You can send thousands of emails and talk for thousands of hours, but you will never get through to her. The only one who can get through to her is her.

Please back off and detach from her. If you can find a way to go to Plan B, then do so. She is destroying you and destroying your family. The only way to stop this is for the rest of you to remove yourselves from her toxic influence, and hope that the loss of her family is enough for her to seek serious help on her own for her P/A behaviour.

And if it's not enough, then you've already done the only sane thing you could do.
Mulan

Dru,

Too late. This is what I wrote. I am not angry. I am thinking clearly and I am going to finally express my feelings in a safe way. I feel safe this way. I can't talk to her without her name calling so at least I can get it off of my chest. Other then the part about or lives pre A I think I was very good. The part of how she treated me is unfortunately the truth. I know it sounds harsh but what can I do.

I just want to let you know what is bothering me. I know you don't
like it when I write but I feel this is the safest way for me to
express myself.

You keep saying that I won't let go of the past and yet we keep coming
back to when I had you arrested. I feel very hurt that you have heard
my version of what transpired after I had you arrested and still hold
on to your version.

The facts of the matter which I can always go back and have verified
if you need me to. First let me say I do regret that decesion and I
have appologized and taken ownership of it more then you have about
hitting me in the first place. I also want to say that the events
that led to you hitting me have been replayed on your side without me
hitting you. I don't think this makes me any better or worse then
you. I just want you to realize that every excuse you make means
nothing because you should have never raised a hand to me. To be
quite honest you have done worse to me then I did to you that night
and I have not hit you. If I did I would beg your forgiveness and
understand if you walked out the door. I truly believe that you
should never hit anyone especially your spouse. I also would accept
the consequences of my actions for doing that.

Now the facts after I had you arrested.
You called me and begged me to bail you out. I agreed. I got on the
phone with a bail bondsman. He told me what it would cost to get you
out. I asked him if I posted the bail when you would be realeased.
He said first thing in the morning. He pulled up your case and said
if I didn't post you would spend the next day and night in jail. I
knocked on the neighbors door and she came and watched the kids. I went to
the bail bonds man and posted bail. He said you could be realesed any
time after 6am. I was there at 5:45. I waited and then drove home
and picked up the boys and dropped them off at school and came back to
wait some more. I did not leave you there, I actually got you out a
lot sooner then you would have and as soon as I could.

I went to court with you the first time before you had the lawyer. If
you remember I was there trying to get them to drop the charge. They
said no and gave you a restraining order one that said you couldn't
stay with me. I did not enforce that restraining order. You stayed
with me and the kids. I was also the one that told the judge I
didn't need a restraining order and asked for it to be lifted. I could
have really stuck it to you if I wanted to. Which is what you believe
now I did.

We saw the lawyer together. You said you wanted to put this behind
you and were just going to pleed guilty. Then your lawyer told you
about the consequences of that and you decided to fight it. Your
lawyers only concern was getting you off, he had no concern for me or
any consequences I might face. As you know because I was honest about
it I saw a lawyer. He told me if I didn't show up or I lied on the
stand I could kiss custody of our boys good bye. I told you this but
you kept asking me to lie anyway. I am sorry but that didn't seem
like an option to me.

So I was subpeoned and went to see the DA as I had to do to protect
myself. Just like you were trying to protect your custody rights by
fighting it. He asked me what I wanted to do. I said I would like to
drop the whole thing. He informed me the only one that could drop the
case was the State of Ca and that wasn't going to happen. CA is a
zero tolerance state and not prosecuting a woman could lead to
probelms because it would seem like a double standard. He asked if I
would be ok if they pled you down. I said yes. I don't know what your
lawyer was saying but that is the truth.

Then a few days later you were in court and the DA came over to me and
said this is what we can do and it is a great deal for her. Will you
agree to it. I said yes and thanked him for helping me. I said if
you would have pressed forward we probably would have gotten a
divorce.

And by the way no matter what your lawyer told you about my actions
prior they were irrelevant to the case. If you remember you admitted
to the police you hit me. That is all they needed to convict you.

So yes I had you arrested. I didn't leave you in jail I did the best
I could to get you out as soon as possible. I did not demand the DA
prosecute you. I did the opposite. I did not make you stay out of the
house. I had the restraining order lifted as soon as possible.

In light of a decesion that I truly regret I did the best I could to
help you through this and now you not only hold the arrest over my
head but now you are rewriting what happened after the fact.

I did what I did. I can't change that but what I won't do is listen
to you change what happened after that.

If you don't believe any or all of this I will go get the proof. You
can ask neighbor about the day I went to bail you out. I will call a
lawyer and ask them if the state could have pled you out without my
consent. Whatever you need to see that my version is not a revesion
of history.

Now you want to say that is what happened fine. Hold on to that.

The other thing is how you keep saying we have been over this a
million times and you are tired of it.

FWW I only wanted to hear the whole truth more then once without
any new details popping up. So far I am at a count of one time. So
the last time new details came up.

I don't know what you want or expect from me. I guess I should have
just accepted the first version you told me and left it at that. Is
that really what you would do? I don't believe so. You said in one
conversation that you wouldn't even be with me until you knew the
truth.

I want to make it clear. I do not want to do this unless we are at
the marriage counselor.

I don't want to hear anything.

So you are tired of talking about it and I am tired of talking about
it too. I am tired of not hearing the truth and then have it thrown
in my face that I have to keep asking for it. I feel that has damaged
my heart more then you can know.

Then you said your friends hated me before you left to NY.

Well FWW I assume you are talking about this person and that person. The people
we knew here thought I was great. Heck you even told me so.

So if those two hated me I have to wonder why? I mean they
didn't know me, they didn't talk to me, they didn't see any of our
interactions. What information did they have to hate me and where did
they get it. From you. Your friends hated me based on what you were
telling them about me. That hurts knowing you would look me in the
eye and tell me I am your best friend only to find out you were saying
things about me to people that actually made them hate me.

Then you said again our Marriage was not good before your trip it was
horrible and I have this fairy tale vision of what it was like. Well
FWW I would gladly trade places with you before your trip.

You told the marriage counselor you made amends to me. You did in
words. You said you know you weren't a good wife because of your
alcoholism. So can you even imagine for a minute that maybe you had as
much to do with the deterioration of our marriage before your trip. Is
it possible you had more to do with the deterioration of it then
before the trip. It doesn't seem as though that is even a thought in
your mind. It was bad and that is all there is too it.

You know what it was bad, it was really bad for me. I worked my tail
off. I came home every night with OS not having his homework done.
Then when that finally got done one of us laid down with YS every
night. By the time we were settled down you were already on your 2nd
to fourth glass of wine. If I had the happy FWW I was lucky. If I
had the unhappy FWW watch out and tip toe around. My weekends were
sometimes consumed by watching the kids while you slept it off. Then
boom right back to it that night. I watched two kids and had to take
care of you. But I guess I should have some how treated you better.

Do you know how many nights you fell asleep when you were in with
YS. Do you know how many nights I wanted to pull you close and
you had that look of hate in your eyes for me?

I told you I wanted to spend time with you and you said we couldn't
because of the kids.

So your life. Take the kids to school, go to the gym, have lunch with
your friends, run errands for neighbor, get your nails and hair done.
Talk to your friends in NY about how horrible I am.

So there. If you want to know how I feel there you are. You can keep
rewriting history FWW if you would like. I am tired of saying
these things over and over and over.

They are all truths' that you refute. Why?

If it was that bad for you before your trip I see we have no where to
go. Maybe take a look through all of this and ask yourself what could
I have done differently?

I am tired of being your biggest mistake which is what you said again.

I'm with Mulan, you're wife isnt at a point she can deal with this logically. No one knows if she can get to that point, but we know she's not there, yet.

Vent to us, go see MC privately, ask for suggestions. Your W is a Work in Progress. If you've explained your version of those events to her before, I dont know WHY you would think she'd suddenly agree with you. That just doesnt make sense.

You ARE re-acting out of hurt right now. It's two months till the new years, you've got to pace yourself. Please consider some IC... you have been traumatized. You really have.

Consider that you HAVE lived with this woman, accepting so very little love for so long now. This didnt happen overnight, and you've accepted way less. It's just not going to be solved quickly. Dont give in to these emotional outbursts, for lack of a better term. It's like talking to a wall at this point. It doesnt change her mind and only fuels the fire. Hang loose - Dru

Mulan

Yes she has and I finally have had enough. I am not going to have an emotional outburst. I am tired of the record being skewed by her emotionally unbalanced version of the past.

I am a good person that has tolerated way to much at this point and for her to continue down this road is toxic and I am tired.

I am no longer angry at her. The anger you are seeing is directed inward and I am tired of directing my anger back on myself. I am tired of her attitude that if she says it it is the truth. Now she has gone over the arrest now in every MC session and when I have tried to tell my side she interupts so I put it down in words for her to read and digest. I am tired of hearing I was a bad husband. I wasn't. Heck considering the environment she created I was a gosh darn prince.

Her friends hated me. heck you figure that one out. I was living with the enemy.

I am not giving her what she wants anymore. I will not even disucss this with her past the fact that is my version of the past. If we both have such different views then we will not learn from our past. I have learned from mine.

Yes I have lived with her and accepted so very little love for so long now. But you know what before the A she was more loving. It was bad because of what I said but she did show me love. Her PA behavior at that point wasn't about me being the enemy like it is now. It was about getting what she wanted, when she wanted and how she wanted. Most of the time I did get something in return. Back then it was mostly passive because she could hold not being near her family over my head so the aggression never came out.

Now she doesn't have that to shut me up anymore so she gets aggressive now. There was no reason to before.

I am not looking to change her mind and I am not looking to add fuel to the fire. I am getting my side out there one more time. My Truth. I am tired of being beaten about the head with her truth which is not true.

So if now she wants a fight I will tell her what I used to tell the bullies in school. If you are looking for a fight lets go outside. You can go now if I don't show up in five minutes start with out me.

I know I have been traumatized.

I know why I accepted this for so long.

I was a codependant, enabler with conflict avoidence issues. I have a hard time separting the codependant part out sometimes but I am doing better. I am no longer enabling her pa behavior. I certainly still avoid conflict only because if I don't she is the victim.

If she doesn't like what I said I am fine with that.

She has had 3 years to start doing her part to trying to fix this M. Now she is backsliding to the justifications she used three years ago. I can no longer sit there and let her tell her truth and not let me speak mine.

I have now spoken my truth. It could hit the wall and she can still refute it. I am just tired of hearing hers all the time and when I try to speak mine I end up getting attacked. So this was safe and it is now done. She can do with it what she likes. I am giving her the opportunity to see my truth. I owe it to her and myself to speak it so she knows how I feel. If it is like speaking to a wall so be it at least the wall knows what I think.

I am going to start IC as well.

She can have her truth and at the end of the day it is going to end us up in D court.

I need to get to the point I can forgive myself for staying and at this point she is making that very difficult.

FNM,

You sound like you have been in a lot of pain for a long time. You have suffered EN neglect and verbal and physical abuse.
((((FNM))))))

I agree with Mulan and Dru about your W's emotional immaturity. It sounds as though she is not capable at this time of the empathy or self-control to save her M with you.Telling her your side of events will have no effect on her, but it will cause you to live in your resentment and anger. She is not capable of taking it in right now.

What can you do to take your focus off her and back on to you and your needs?
You sound as though you are desperately in need of a drink somewhere with some good listening friends or maybe a even a weekend away with the kids or better still a holiday. What do you do just for yourself? Can you do it? Are there people you can call and talk? Please, look after yourself.

Hi FNM,

Look, I'm with you here. The point of MC was to try and make the marriage work. If she's just going to scream and abuse you, then she's not working towards the same goal! MC is a TOOL, for both of you. You are using it to get the truth about your W and marriage, so you can evaluate your decision to stay M or D. I'd say the blinders are off, eh?

PLEASE dont concern yourself about your drunken W's friends who 'hate' you. That's nothing! Your W exaggerates; what she told them and what they actually said back were both blown out of proportion. Heck, I dont know your W, but from what you've said, I cant profess any kindness towards her. Really, this is small potatoes.

Your W is screaming that she hates you. That's the issue. It's one thing to worry about the M and recovery for three years, but to have her finally VERYIFY that she really doesnt care about you is devestating! All hope is dashed. That's alot. She's thinks you're upset because she SAID it, you're realy upset because she MEANT it. She's unreal.

Please think about this now from a FNM recovery point of view. How about speaking with the MC alone? Definitely find an IC, this IS damaging but you dont want to be long-term damaged by it. Please take care - Dru

Good Morning, Frog!!!

Sweetie, I'm so sorry that you are feeling so low...I hear you hurting also...

I was going to suggest the same thing that Drucilla said about speaking to the MC alone. Be O&H, and just explain where you are. I've asked before and I see that smur asked also "What ARE YOU doing for yourself?"

I'm very concerned about you right now and I want to let you know that I/WE are here for you! Do what you must to regain your sanity! FOR YOU!

How about an update on you? What you are feeling?

YOU have done so many great things...do you believe in you right now...please act and not react...

What about a meeting? Is that an option for you? I know what you said before...I Do!

Hey FNM,

I am in the UK, and still followed your thread. Just remembered what my log in is so I can post now.

Hey I have been where you are. Total stand still until they move in a good direction. It it time for Plan B my friedn and fellow supporter.

Something has to get through to her if the M is to be saved and YOU need a BREAK. Plan B is for this time when your love is almost exhausted. It is to protect it from totally eroding. It is also a wake up call to the WS.

Don't you also have a time issue to consider with this M?

Regards and hugs,

Linda

It sounds like you may be ready for Plan B. Are you ready for that next step? Please be sure to get financials straight and child-related issues settled prior to doing anything. Plan B would be time to heal. You sound pretty angry right now, and may need the time to separate yourself from this situation, physically and mentally.

Boom,

Well I feel great today. I am pretty sure I am getting a D at this point. She has refused to take ownership of her part in this point and I do not believe she will.

Talking about the abuse she actually said that she thinks it was wrong for me to have her arrested. Why because I am a man and a man should accept the abuse and not call the police. A woman has a right to call the police but a man shouldn't. She said she would have had me arrested but I shouldn't have had her arrested.

She read the email. And of course disagreed with some and not some. Not specifically but in general.

This morning she called and it wasn't pleasent. Oh well. I needed to speak my truth and I did.

She doesn't want this and nor do I.

In closing she decided she is not going to be radically honest with me. The MC said it was necessary to move forward and she has decided she won't. She maintains at this point that she has been over it to many times. She refuses to say that only once has she gone over the latest version of the truth. In her mind going over it 8 times with one truth, 12 times with another truth, 7 times with a different truth and one time with the latest truth is ok.

Yesterday she said she would have either moved on or gotten a D from me if I had an A. I asked her if she would be able to move on if I wasn't honest with her. She restated she would have moved on or gotten a D. I reminded her she said she wouldn't have been able to move on without the truth. She restated she would have moved on or gotten a D. So what she is telling me is she would have gotten a D.

I have called my mom and she has agreed to let the boys and I move in with her until I can get on my feet. She is going to help me with the care of them as well.

She also said she keeps bringing up me having her arrested because I keep bringing up the A. She keeps bringing up my past because I bring up hers. Well the big difference is she manipulates the past.

I finally told her about the domestic abuse that she didn't go to trial because I ok'd the plea deal. No matter what she says that is an irrefutable fact. She then said yes but inbetween the arrest and then you said you were going to. I said but in the end I didn't. She said fine but inbetween you did. I asked her if she knew why. She didn't care. I said because inbetween more and more details about your A kept coming out. Was I supposed to help someone who was hurting me on a daily basis. Her response was see you are the victim. LOL.

Well I appreciate all of the help but I can't see how this is worth any more energy on my part.

It is going to take too much time and energy just to get the truth out and once it does come out she doesn't want to talk about it. I talked about how she wanted to discuss how bad I was for not asking about her day for a year and a half but once I told her I was no longer going to take her calls or call her on the way home she changed her tune. Then after she changed the tune that I did ask her about her day she never wanted to talk about it again.

That is how was, how it has been and how it is today. Wish me luck guys I am going to need it. I don't want to get a D until after the holidays but I don't know if I can be around her that long.

Well if not for all of you I would be a basket case but instead I am pretty centered because I got what I expected from her.

Can you move out right now, and then wait on the D a bit longer; try to do a Plan B until you are truly ready for the process of D'ing. One thing I remember from my last break up, there is no real good time to end things, no perfect moment. If the holidays will be ruined for your sons, then i understand the wait. Are they happy living in their current environment? Would things be better for them if the two of you lived separately right now?

If you don't have a waiting period for divorce (it's one year of separation in my MD), then maybe just separate, consult a lawyer about your legal side of things, be prepared for divorce, even draw up papers if you like, but wait a while before filing. It will give you time to truly separate from the situation and find a little peace before moving so quickly into the next step. Think about it; Plan B really does mimick divorce in the sense of not talking to each other, not cohabitating, just one day at a time.

I have had some rough days, but the resentment I had is slowly melting away. I don't think of the person that has left as my spouse, my husband; the person who left is
[censored]. He's not the man that would cry for me, that would protect me; nope, he's gone right now.
He doesn't care for me. I don't care for him. I have time to myself, too. To do what I please with. Maybe just give it a try first before jumping straight to D. It won't punish anyone, it will just end things. Plan B will give you more time to get those little duckies lined up.

Silent,

Unfortunately for our M there can be no plan B. She will not move out. So that leaves me. If I were to leave and not have a custody agreement in place it would hurt me in the custody hearing. In my state my leaving them is validation I think them staying with her is ok. None of her past actions will mean squat if I do that. What I am saying in the here and now is she is a good enough parent to leave them with. If I think otherwise I am not a good parent for leaving them in an unstable environment. Kinda stinks but what are you going to do.

There is a six month waiting period where I live. I have avoided this at all costs because I cannot play nice in the custody hearing. Her alcoholism, domestic abuse, the fight she had with my aunt, the time the police showed up because she pushed a neighbor and her infidelity in front of the children(including them in it as well) will all be brought to light. I cannot imagine that is something she will forgive. LOL. She is a pretty unforgiving person as it is.

I feel the same about the FWW. She is not the person I married. She is so far off and refuses to step back and see her part. Her apologies are a joke. OK I am sorry ok I said it. That sounds remorseful to me.

She brought up the picture today. Her side. I asked her how many times she apologized for that. She said once how many times do you want me to.

So my ducks are in a row. I have the police reports. I don't need anything as far as her alcoholism other then this is her third time in AA. First was almost 4 years ago and she is sober for 9 months. Which is good but she realized the problem 4 years ago and kept drinking.

So here I sit today without regret for it coming to this. I have tried. I have given it everything I have then waited to recharge and gave it some more. I am tired of sleeping with a person that looks at me like the enemy.

I am tired of her getting angry at my hurt. I am tired of the name calling.(she still does) I am tired of hearing she hates me, I am an idiot, she can't stand me. I am tired of every wrong doing starting and ending with me. One day she may wake up and regret it but today she doesn't.

I think the final straw this morning was when she said I was trying to F#%^ her by having her thrown in jail because she F%&*ed another man. But she doesn't want to talk about the A. Wow.

Thank you. You are a great help.

Well, Frog...

I'm wishing you the best! I know that you and the boys will be fine...

I don't have much else to say...outside of support you just like you supported me...

Just do me a favor and stick around here please...I was concerned about you yesterday...I know that you disappear...LOL...from time to time...

I have faith in you and the boys...keep your head!