ML - Because I "see through" this "game" of yours...

And ML, you don't know what ACTION I or my H would take given the exact same scenerio as KM's. However, I think I know my H better than you and I KNOW he would take ACTION. And to the same effect...you don't know what action Katie Mae would take if she were in my exact same scenerio.

Katie Mae...if I have offended you, please let me know. I am truly happy for you and how things are going for you.

So, it is a "game" to praise Katie Mae? WOW! What kind of "game" is it exactly?

Well, yes we do know what you would do. NOTHING. And yes, we do know what Katie Mae would do: expose to her victim. She DID THAT. You are both in the same situations NOW and that is what you both did. This is not about your H, he did not commit the affair, it is about YOU.

And what you did in this SAME SITUATION was nothing except make up endless self serving rationalizations.

ML - Not a "game" to praise Katie Mae...no not that. It's the comparison you all are doing and using that as your "tool". I can't buy the comparison of an OM stalking Katie Mae vs. an affair that is long over and there is no threat to my marriage.

Katie Mae did well!

Well, ML...you don't know that because I wasn't stalked by the OM. So you can't say that. There is no comparison. Thank you for your opinion though.

The only one I see playing a "game" here is you, 2BNormal. And it is very unfair and selfish to Katie Mae.

There is no difference at all and the stalking is irrelevant. They are both affairs and both should be exposed to their victims. One doesn't expose only because they are being "stalked," but because it is the right thing to do for one's victim.

You are quite welcome. But rest assured that an affair is an affair. "Stalking" is irrelevant. So, we do know exactly what you would do. NOTHING.

Obviously, we have a difference of opinion and I will leave it at that. Thank you.

Obviously, we have a difference of opinion on what would happen. Thank you for your thoughts though.

2BNormal, do you believe that a victim of an affair should only be told if her spouse is "stalking" the OP?

ML - I am trying to get off the computer here to get some things done in the house. But, I didn't want to ignore your question. NO, I do not think that a victim of an affair should only be told if her spouse is "stalking" the OP.

What would be the REASONS for exposure to one's victim, in your opinion?

Hi Mel,

I appreciate your thoughts, kudos and input. You really helped me when I was at a very desperate point in my life. Thank you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would like to take a stab at your question, if I may. Exposing to OMW did three things (for me) in particular:

1. It further protected my M.

2. It made me accountable not only to H, but to OMW as well.

3. It gave power back to OMW, who unknowingly suffered because of ME and MY BEHAVIOR. Now she knows and has choices in her life. I took from her, and by exposing I was able to give her something back. I wish I never took to begin with, but this helps me rebuild my character and my life.

2B,

I'm not offended... I'm here to help if you need me.

Thanks to everyone for the support... it means much more than I can put into words! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Katie

[color:"red"]OK

I think I've embarrased KM long enough [/color]

[color:"purple"] time to change my tag line [/color]

Pep

What I don't get about 2B's situation is that the OM ***DID*** in fact contact her again recently and apart from uttering threats her Husband did NOTHING.

Katie, I want to talk to you about something off-topic and personal if you don’t mind:

A while ago I’ve noticed that you and your H are the same age than me and my H (33 and 34 respectively). We are married for almost the same period than you (it will be our 10th anniversary next month) and I also noticed you and your H don’t have any children yet (just like me and my H). So I was wondering… Do you and your H have infertility problems or did you have a joint decision to wait with children until later in your marriage? Did you and your H ever gone for check ups just to make sure everything is okay as far as fertility of both of you is concerned? Are you concerned about your “biological clock” which is ticking and do you and your H miss/looking forward having a child of your own? Do you ever feel a “void” in your life because you don’t have a child yet?

Me and my H always wanted to have our first child before I’ve reached the age of 30, but a couple of years ago we have discovered a major infertility problem on my H’s side. The problem is so severe that the only way we can possibly conceive a child of our own is through a very expensive infertility treatment called ISCI (this process is almost the same than in-vitro fertilization - just more advanced). This treatment will give us a 30% chance to conceive. The doctors have also said it will be best and ideal if we can start with the treatment before I reach the age of 35, because after the age of 35 the 30% chance to conceive with this treatment reduce to a lower percentage. We will only go through with the treatment after my H gets employed again and as soon as his Unfair Dismissal court case is over.

I was just wondering how you feel about children and if you and your H probably also have infertility problems. This infertility issue had a big effect on me and my H’s lives and on us emotionally. When we’ve first discovered this a few year ago, it was difficult for both of us to accept and made peace with the fact that we might never have children of our own. We are now in a place where we have indeed made peace with this - we don’t obsess about it - but I do think the fact that we have this problem in our life has raised our longing for a child and also raised our concerns about my “biological clock” etc…things which probably wouldn’t bother us if it wasn’t for the infertility.

Hi Suzet,

Of course I don't mind...

I'm so sorry for your situation... infertility runs in my family, and although H and I haven't tried to have a baby yet, this is my worst fear... I can't imagine how you and your H must feel.

My biological clock is also ticking... I've wanted children for a long time, but H does not... this has been an issue in our M since the very beginning. When we first got together, H didn't want kids... I was okay with this, because he was so young, and I figured he would grow out of it... my mistake.

This was one of the issues I used to justify my A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

H had an abusive childhood and his father had poor boundaries when it came to raising my H (he would often tell H how having children "ruined his dreams". This has stuck with H like glue... H has big dreams, and now doesn't think he can accomplish them with children because this is what his father taught him.)

I grew up in a loving home... both of my parents were teachers, and wanted children very badly... family is highly valued.

H and I come from opposite sides of the tracks, so to speak.

This is something we are working through in our recovery. Obviously, children would be a BAD idea at this point... we have to get through recovery first. We are actually starting MC again this week.

Suzet, when is your H's court case going to be over? It seems like he has been unemployed for quite a long time. How are you both coping with this? I would think it would be quite stressful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This, in addition to infertility problems, must be hard on you both. Is your H unable to work while his case is still open? Are you okay with him not working?

I don't necessarily feel a void in my life without children because I work with kids... I get my "kid fix" everyday. I also have hope that one day H and I will be able to work through our issues and have children. I'm fairly certain I would feel this void, however, if H and I couldn't have children after trying.

Have you and your H thought about adoption? Not now, but in the future? Maybe that's your calling...

Katie, thanks for your response.

Katie, this is why I was wondering if you and your H have ever gone for infertility check ups just to make sure…just for in case…before you get “too old”. You know, so many people these days want to wait until they are deep in their 30’s before they start with a family and when it comes to this, they discover infertility problems and then their “biological clock” is against them. Therefore I think it will be a good thing if EVERY married couple can make sure about this and go for such check ups on fertility early on in a marriage…

I’m sorry about this. I can imagine the strain this has put onto your M and that it’s still a concern for you. I agree however that you and your H have to work through your recovery first.

We hope my H’s court case will get finished this year. We are waiting for a court date currently. We are supposed to receive the court date within this week...I hope we will. My H was unfairly dismissed during January ’04 so yes, he is out of permanent work for more than 2,5 years now. My H received contract work now and then and has started his own small computer company in the meantime. My H is really doing his best under the circumstances to help provide for us financially where he can (with the small business and contract work now and then) and for that I’m very grateful. Yes, this whole issue was and still is very stressful to us but with God’s grace we have adapted to the circumstances and we are still surviving. I know the circumstances are just temporary and that things will get “back to normal” one or other time…so I'm okay.

Regarding the infertility - just before my H was dismissed we were in the process of starting with the infertility treatment. We had to put that on hold when my H was dismissed in Jan ’04 due to stress and financial factors. Me and my H have discussed things and decided that – as soon he will get reinstated in his old job – we will take a “rest” for at least 6 moths before we will start with the infertility treatment. We first need to get financially back on our feet again before we can carry on with the treatment (which will be very expensive too).

One thing that was very difficult and hard on me last year was when my young brother of 25 years and his GF of 21 years (now his wife) have gotten pregnant “out of wedlock”. The pregnancy was unplanned and the circumstance in which this baby is raised is not good. And although my brother is married for only a few months now, their marriage is very fragile and unhappy.

I understand… Thanks for explaining this. I do hope things will work out for you and your H and that you will have a baby some day.

Yes, we have thought about it, but at this stage we feel strong to have our own biological child…to see ourselves unified together in a child...to have that experience to see yourself and your spouse unified in one child… Maybe if we go for infertility treatment and it is not successful, we might consider adoption again in future.

Katie, I'm "knocking off" from work now, so I will speak again with you tommorrow. Thanks for the discussion so far, it's good to speak to you about all this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suzet,

It sounds like you and your H have a solid plan... that's great.

I know what you mean about "getting old"... it really does scare me. I know the statistics after age 35. If it had been up to me we would have had children by now, but at the same time... given where our relationship landed... I'm very thankful that we didn't. I certainly had a lot of growing up to do, and I'm still working on it.

It was nice talking to you about this as well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KM

Katie, yesterday after I’ve spoken to you, my H informed me about very discouraging news he received from the attorneys yesterday. The labor courts are fully booked for this year and my H will only get a court date for NEXT year. We couldn’t believe it...it was such a disappointment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> We will hear about the date on Thursday though... There’s already a “waiting list” at the courts for next year, so we hope my H is not too far down on this list. My H’s name is also on a “waiting short list” in case of a cancellation at one of the courts this year, so we hope & pray this will happen.