Hey... new to the site.

On July 17, my wife called me at work crying saying she wasn't happy and wanted to leave.

I knew she wasn't ecstatic in the marriage, but thought that me being a good father, good husband in general, hard worker, etc. would keep us together.

She said she "loves me but is not in love with me" and that she doesn't feel like she thinks she should feel toward her husband.

We just bought a second home last year to enjoy, we have a beautiful home, two healthy fantastic kids... the dream life other than the fact that she says she's not attracted to me and doesn't love me like a husband.

She used to complain alot about my appearance. I've improved it over the last couple years, but she's harped on the things that I can't do much about like losing my hair slowly. She says that she's totally annoyed by me. My wife's VERY beautiful and VERY vane.

We went to counseling and the counselor said that Julie really needs the therapy and that we're not even close to marriage counseling. She brings up ALOT from the past that doessn't even happen anymore.

We had a child at a very young age and ended up getting married when our daughter was 4 years old. We had our differences, but have evolved (I thought) to a point where we had alot of common interests. We do things together, we both love the kids.

She's going to therapy later this month. She doesn't want to do anything with me. When she's nice, I feel like there's hope... when she's cold, I feel like there's none. She says she feels the same as when she told me. I know I'm smothering her a little with conversations and questions, but what am I supposed to do? She's the one I've been living my life for and making ALL my life decisions with and for. Now she's gonna walk? I don't think she's thinking of the consequences (which is actually pretty common for her). She likes nice things and doing things... we'll be financially devastated. We're now mortgaged to the hilt, we took a risk on this second home as an investment and now she wants to leave.

But she hasn't yet... how do i get through the day and give here the space I know she needs?

Your thoughts are appreciated. I never thought this would happen to us. We made it through the tough times and we're at a point where we can really enjoy ourselves and she's going to throw it all away because she "doesn't get that feeling"? Life's not a romance novel... marriage is a committment. I'm frustrated, angry, and sad all at the same time and have no clue how to handle it.

Thanks for reading...

Who's the other guy she's seeing?

Very likely there is.

This is spoken by 99.9% of spouses in an affair. The other 0.1% can't speak.

I agree with Worthatry. The chances are great that she is involved in an affair. What she is saying and threatening to do is classic of someone in an affair. Since you have been trying counseling but she will not go; I would strongly suggest that you contact an attorney immediately to protect yourself and your children financially and to understand your legal obligations. Do not be surprised if she with help from her affair partner has already contacted an attorney herself. Be prepared.

I agree....
Start your snooping now b4 she gets smart enough to hide it

Please make sure you get hard evidence don't leave it to your memory.

sounds like you're in the right place

Walt
Have to agree with the others here, Very very classic signs ..just look at the right hand link with the time bomb on it and see if any of thosse statements match those said by your W. Most times it means an affair of one kind or another.

Do as suggested so you know your options just in case and then read the info on this site and ask questions, you'll get lots of help, but remember no one here can replace a pro marriage
counsellor .... sadly too many are not pro M and think its ok to just give up.

Once you find out what is going on you can then begin to look at what you wish to do.

Protect yourself & kids, research the worse case scenario, read whats here on the site, and start digging nto her behaviour. Thats the begining.

All the best

Wow, that was quick. Well, I did snooping immediately and she was talking with someone from work extensively on the phone for several days before she dropped the bomb. I confronted her about it and she finally admitted she was attracted to this guy. She doesn't see the guy all the time at work, just every now and then and she said she told him that she was going to try and work out our marriage and that talking to him wouldn't help. I believe her. I've carefully watched phone and text activity and it just died after she agreed to not talk with him.

Today I told her about the books I saw on the site and asked her if she would consider reading a book or two to get us started in hopes of a recovery.

She knows that it would be almost impossible financially to move out on her own. She keeps saying that she just wants to be away from me.

Any thoughts on the first book to introduce her to? We're going away with our two kids and her parents to our place in New England that we bought last year. Hopefully, it'll make her a little nestalgic...

Also, she didn't refuse to go to counseling... in fact, she couldn't get there quick enough. We went once, and the COUNSELOR suggested she get individual counseling before we do any more marriage counseling. She aggressively scheduled the quickest available appointment. She admits its her problem to work out. I told her it's ours, but she realizes that she's the instigator of the idea of divorce.

My gut tells me there's hope. We both have strong family support and the idea of financial ruin helps to keep her from pulling the trigger.

Any thoughts?

Keep watching. And watch other communication methods as well.

She may have been sincere when she ceased communication - unless she wasn't. She may have simply switched mediums.

And she may have REALLY been sincere - for that moment.

Books to get - Survivng An Affair, His Needs/Her Needs - both by Harley and available from the bookstore on this site or from just about any on-line book seller.

For YOU - Read up on Plan A on this site and in SAA. Even IF you two have arrested the affair, the environment that precipitated it was likely due in some part to your behavior. In Plan A you identify your faults and fix them.

Read the links in my sig line below.

Friend,

Reading your post reminds me so much of what I went through.

You are holding out hope, which isn't bad, but allow me to give you some tips on things that I wish I had done.

1. Immediately implement the 180. Do a search for it here. It works.

2. Take steps to protect yourself financially and legally.
Trust me on this one. Consult a lawyer and prepare for the worst case scenario. I didn't do this and it bit me in the bu*t. You're not going to act on anything, but it should be in your back pocket if you need to resort to it.

3. Financially, create a separate account with your bank. Have it ready in case things go south and you need to protect your assets. Do this!

4. Do not, in any way shape or form, move out of your house. It can bite you later if it comes to a custody dispute. She's the one ending things, she's the one that should go. This is one of the areas a lawyer can protect you with.

5. Spy, spy, spy. Do not trust a thing she says. I was told that her myspace page was simply a means for her to make friends and nothing more. Once I got into her account by using a spy program, I found out she cheated on me several times. It is very true that you shouldn't believe anything she says.

Put a key logger on the computer. You can get her passwords this way for her e-mail and you can see any messages she's sending out.

If you do find out she's cheating, don't tip your hand off right away. Gather evidence first. This is going to be EXTREMELY hard to do because you will be very emotional.

Go into her accounts when she's gone and won't be back for a few hours or a few days. This will give you the time you need to do the spying properly.

If you do find e-mails, print them out and hide them somewhere safe.

6. Accept that you're not dealing with your wife. This is not the woman you fell in love with and have learned to trust for so many years. She's been kidnapped by aliens and has had her brain scrambled. She's going to be this way for a while.

This is the hardest thing you will have to do because you love her very much. Understand you don't love who she is now but who she was. This love will cloud your judgement on the steps you need to take to protect yourself and your kids. You will be desperate to see any signs of hope from her and will respond to the littlest things.

7. Be cool. Be super cool and stoic. Use Mr Spock for inspiration. It will be very hard to do this because inside you'll be screaming, crying, and beat. Don't show weakness in front of her. This isn't macho BS. It's so that you don't present yourself as a desperate man which is very unattractive.

8. Stay on this forum and follow the advice. I wish I had and I didn't precisely because I felt that my ww was different. I was holding out that she was going to come around and I was desperate to see signs of it.

9. Don't believe her when she tells you that she wants a divorce in order to get her space and have time to heal. This may or may not come, but if it does, you heard it here first. This is her way of saying she wants you out and minimize the damage to you. It won't minimize the damage to you. It will prolong your pain.

Divorce is final, and you shouldn't see it any other way.

Good luck. This is a horrible time.

That's "north" my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

WaltW,

I would add one point to the great post by Papa, do NOT assume that the possibility of "financial disaster" is working for you. WS's are very poor decision makers and the "romantic" adulterer will actually be drawn toward that option as a sign that he/she is willing to give up all for that " I am in love" feeling.

My suggestion is that you proceed as if what she said was written in stone. Start with making her aware of the realities of her decisions. When she says she wants to leave, ask her to contact the realtors to put your second home and primary residence up for sale. Make sure SHE is aware that is HER responsibilty.

Get a copy of Dr Pittman's book PRIVATE LIES and go here


Hope for Couples


for a different perspective on what you need to do to save yourself.

And MOST importantly, find out who her fantasy man is and EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE!

Look up reverse babble on this forum. Great way to deal with WS.

Can someone post the 180 here for him?

All these acronyms are confusing to me. Is there a legend anywhere?

Scary to see the concensus that she is cheating...

What's a 180?

The way I understand it, the "180" is simply a complete turnaround of damaging behavior you may have been conducting. Google Michelle Weiner Davis' Divorce Busters website for more info.

IMHO, Plan A is essentially the same thing.

Identify and stop doing bad things to your marriage that YOU have control over - no matter how small.

The logic of this is that affairs are merely symptoms of marriage disease. The fever of the virus. But even if no affair is under way, your wife is disillusioned with your marriage - it has marriage disease. An affair is likely if it isn't already in progress. Either way, Plan A makes sense.

JMHO

WAT

Here is the 180. It works! Trust me. It isn't easy to do, though, because you can be so emotional.

WS-wayward spouse
ww-wayward wife
bs-you, betrayed spouse
EN-emotional needs
lb-love busters

Plan A and Plan B are in the forums or in the articles. Plan D is divorce.

Here is the 180 as promised:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes



This is hard to do, but trust me, it works. It will get a response. Pull back from your ww. You'll notice a reaction in a short while.

With a few minor differences; your story is EXACTLY like mine. Since you have said that your wife is 'pretty and likes nice things', I would assume that she is always presentable and that men make advances towards her. I agree weth all of the other posts, she is having an affair. I believe that it has already passed the EA stage and is in the PA stage.

I don't believe "she is attracted to him" excuse. I believe that there is more going on. This is what my WW said about her OM. At the time she said that it was only attraction (when I first found out about my WW affair) my WW's affair had already become physical. Again, this is exactly what my WW said about the OM that she is with. She can't admit the PA to you yet because she has very conflicted feelings (she probably will not admit it to her counselor either). This is one of the times that you have to listen to your instincts.



Classic ... she wants to be away from you so that she can be with the OM with less interruptions. I have been exactly where you are, the difference is, my wife COULD move out on her own. The first day she moved out for "time and space" to think, the OM was over at her house.

Right now this OM is a real threat to your M. He has a one-way mirror into your relationship. He knows personal things about you and personal things about your family. You know nothing about him. You must follow the MB principals and EXPOSE.

It is easy for them to stop all communications .. he sees you W at work .... don't trust that the communication has stopped... now that you know, they have even MORE to talk about.

Take our advice, SNOOP SNOOP SNOOP.

Trust NONE of what you hear without verification, and only 50% of what you see.

How old is your wife ?

My wife is 32.

I like the 180 idea. It starts this second.

So Walt - what personal improvements can you make?

What do you know about this "guy" she's been communicating with? Do you know him? Is he married?

WAT

Well, I've already made leaps and bounds with my appearance which was initially a big issue. I was very overweight. I've lost 30 pounds in about a month (yes, a month) and about 40 over the two years before that. I'm thinner than I was when we met! I just had my teeth whitened today as well. I love the gym and exercise twice a day to burn calories. I'm on a food plan which I'm following maticulously. She likes when the lawn looks good and when the driveway is blown off to give a clean appearance. I've been maintaining this for the last several weeks. I cleaned the garage as well. These are big things to her. She's actually a little frustrated that I'm doing all these things NOW when she's says "it may be too little too late". I'm still going to do them.

This guy is divorced about 8 months ago and said that "his wife felt the same way about him". I think he's feeding her lines to get her in the sack. Although some may not agree, I don't think it's ever been physical. I hope I'm right, but if I'm wrong, I can't change anything. He has kids and they talked "everything" and "have alot in common" according to my wife. Knowing my wife, I think she would have already told me if it were physical, but like someone else said, I could be thinking about the wife I once knew. She's not that electronically skilled really, and we have a dialup connection. I still check her phone and the bill will be posted tomorrow to see her activity over the past month.

I don't know the guy though...

How do you know this?

Guess what I'll say if your answer is, "My wife told me."?

Your response should then be: "You're right that it took me too long to realize I needed to make these changes. You've given me a HUGE wake up call and I hear you loud and clear. These changes are permanent in me because I do not want to lose you."

Understand?

WAT

Yes, that's generally been my response to her, but she then goes into this crap about not loving me for a long time, should have never got married, etc.

I only know this guy by what my wife told me when I asked her who's phone number was this appearing on the bill so many times? I don't know him personally at all. When I saw the number so many times, I called it and hear a man's voice answer, then immediately confronted my wife.

I also bought ALOT of new clothes... had to... none of my other ones fit! I know I look alot better... people I haven't seen in a while don't even recognize me for a second. It feels great. I hope it helps, but even if it doesn't, it still feels great.