It's a really weird feeling right now. I've been working on myself, especially with my weight which has always been the albatross of my life.

I dropped 35 pounds since she dropped the bomb, in a VERY healthy manor. I'm actually starting to look good even to myself! I almost feel a sense of calm instead of the panic I've felt for a month. My daughter got very upset last night over this. I'm doing all I can for the marriage, but the family will be there even without the marriage, so I'm not going to let my daughter suffer for this.

I feel somewhat empowered with my actions and the information I've gained. If she leaves, I'm very well prepared for a future relationship.

Don't get me wrong, this marriage is very important to me, but it doesn't define me (any more). I'm a great dad, I'm getting in better shape (and consequently better looking) every day. I feel better about myself than I have for 15 years!

I told my wife she has first dibs on the "new" me... it's up to her to take advantage of it.

Thanks for everyone's help so far... I'll keep you posted.

Good job, Walt.

Do not "protect" your wife from your daughter. Do not cover for her. Do not deny your wife the consequences of her decisions.

WAT

I don't plan on it. My daughter is sharp... VERY sharp. She's no idiot. She desparately wants a relationship with her mother, but it's like my wife really doesn't care THAT MUCH. She says she does, but I think it's only because its the right thing to say. Anything else is looked down upon by others.

Feeling better every day. I get the feeling the wife is coming around a little, but it's just a feeling. Been disappointed before. It's up to her at this point... but don't read that as I've given up and not going to make changes. The changes are permanent... with or without her.

By the way, got the cell phone bill today and there were no more calls after she promised to not speak with the OM any more. Could be other ways of communicating, still vigilant, but good to see no calls.

One question. Is it appropriate to ask the wife to do something together at this point? Or should I wait for her to ask me to do something.

I'm beyond the nag mode, but is it ok to suggest we go out for a drink or round of golf?

I feel like I should wait for her to ask me.

Your thoughts are always appreciated.

Absolutely ask her!

Plan A is all about making love bank deposits.

Ask her to do something you KNOW she likes - not something YOU like and wishes she did.

But be light and upbeat and expect to be turned down.

Walt: Honey, how 'bout you make my putter flutter?

OK, not that one.

Walt: Honey, how 'bout we go whack some balls at the driving range?

Her: No, not today.

Walt: OK! Maybe some other time!

WAT

Ok, my wife just called me and we talked. She's got really two issues. She's not attracted to me and she feels like she's never had a chance to date, go out, etc. (We had a child very young and worked through it... at times, it was tough... VERY TOUGH!)

However, I pointed out that I'm doing everything I can to save the marriage. One of her needs is an attractive spouse. I'm doing what I can with what I've got. She said that she's not comfortable holding hands or touching or having sex. I said I wouldn't pressure her, but that to develop some feelings we need to spend some time with eachother. She can't run away whenever I get home. I asked her to consider what SHE could do to improve the situation (reminder: she's read "His Needs, Her Needs") She said she didn't know and asked me what do I think she could do.

My suggestion was to set aside one evening a week and time during each weekend to do something together. Just the two of us with no kids, friends, distractions, etc. I further suggested that once a month or so we go away for a weekend together. Just her and I. She said "I guess I have no choice". I said "yes, you do have a choice. You don't have to do anything, but doing nothing is not going to change anything. It's going to take some time." I

I further suggested that our evening out can be to go to get a bite to eat, then she can come with me to shop for a new shirt. One that SHE likes on me. I told her I'm enjoyin shopping because I can shop anywhere now after losing weight. I thought this was pure GENIUOUS on my part! Spending time together and fulfilling her need for an attractive spouse!

She still has reservations, but I think baby steps have been made.

Your thoughts?

Good job, Walt.

Look for an opp to bring up the EN questionaire.

Just mention it as a way for her to help YOU meet her needs.

I think it's a good time for you to set up an appt. with Steve H. for yourself. Please consider this. She seems receptive - based on your description - and if she would be willing to also have a conversation with Steve, he's good at planting the seeds. But don't push this. Ease into it. Keep Plan A'ing your butt off see if she'll follow you - you can't push her.

WAT

Walt,

Do not take a second hand account from your FWW about what the MC said.

My FWW are starting again tonight. Third MC afte a very long break.

When we went to the second MC she went first and explained why we were coming.

I went to the first couples session and I was mortified by what the MC was saying. We left the session and I asked my FWW what she told the MC as to why we were there.

Well she left out a lot of details that would have changed the advice the MC was giving.

My FWW was arrested for domestic abuse and she told me the MC told her she is surprised we are together after that. My FWW interpreted that as the MC giving her credit for staying with me. Well I go back to the MC and ask her why she would say that to my FWW. You reinforced her position that I was wrong for having her arrested. The MC told me she meant that my FWW was lucky I took her back. LOL.

So as you can see you may not have a bad MC the message might just be getting misinterpreted. For instance maybe your FWW said "I really want a seperation" the MC might have asked do you think he would consider that?

On to the other things. Look for better or worse till death do you part.

Right now my FWW had a few extra lbs. Not very toned. A little belly. Some grey hair. etc.

I am at my ideal body weight. I am in good shape. I have some greys but hey they make a man look distinguished.

I don't remember the caveat that if the person standing next to you doesn't age so gracefully you should leave them.

Now on to the dating. Sure why not. You should ask her. My suggestion though make it a place like the movies. Where you can spend time without talking. It gives you a chance to be together without the fear of M talk coming up. If you don't like going to movies go somewhere with a lot of noise and people around. Again hard to talk about serious stuff in that environment.

Woo her back. Treat it like your first date.

Do you mean Steve Harley? I guess by an appt. you mean phone appt. right? Just me at first? Then her? Then us?

I could use some more direction on this.

I suggested Sunday we do something. Maybe I'll bring it up then, or at our second outing.

By meeting her need for an attractive spouse (one of the ten needs discussed by Dr. Harley.) I'm also addressing my need to FEEL LIKE an attractive spouse. It's also important to me that I look good and that she thinks I look good.

Maybe a movie is a good idea. I was thinking of something a little more engaging than that, but not TOO engaging.

I'm not going to nag her on this, but I am going to suggest and pursue these activities.

For better or worse also doesn't mean I shouldn't be better if I don't want to be. She's got a huge issue with her attraction to me. Combine that with a history of not meeting her affection needs along with the fact that she's (somewhat ligitimately) feeling that she never even had a chance to meet anyone else.

I'm choosing to take the high road on this and leave nothing on the table. If getting in shape makes me feel better and her feel better about me, it's very much worth it to me.

My parents live close by. They've volunteered to help with babysitting for us to do these things. I know the wife said yes (half-heartedly), but she did say yes.

Now to execute the dates... might not be so easy. It's like she's 100 miles away sometimes, or just wants to be. I'm certainly not going to make a divorce easy.

I'm hoping the result is a loving, fun, passionate marriage, but as I've expressed to her, I don't expect it to happen overnight.

If it wasn't the "attraction" it would be something else.

She HAS to have SOME ISSUE with you - to justify her affair.

Take all her "issues" with you with a grain of salt. This doesn't mean they aren't real - just that it's typical for WSs to exaggerate them. The more exaggeration the more desperate they are for excuses.

Yes, or Jennifer Chalmers. (sp?)

Go to the Counseling Center link at the top of the page. Set up a phone appt. for just you. Let Steve or Jen guide you from there regarding getting you W to talk to them. This is not cheap, but could be priceless if it helps save your marriage.

But do your homework! Steve will quiz you to gauge your understanding of MB principles. Read Surviving An Affair first. Fill out the EN questionaire for you and how you think your wife would fill it out if she won't do it herself.

WAT

Hi Walt, I have been following your thread and feel compelled to write.

As WAT said, if it was not "attraction" it would be someone else.

Because you have so easily acknowldeged this to her she is thriving on it. Let me ask you a question? Do you feel unattractive? Are you unattractive? I have a sense that you're quite insecure about your looks. Has that always been the case? Or is it because you're acknowledging you did let yourself go?

The reason why I approach this is because you need to address this insecurity. Are you that different, really? From when she met and married you? Right now I hear fog crap that is hurtful and strikes a cord with me. That is all.

Walt, good luck...and keep working on you...everything else will fall into place,,,

Actually, I met my wife when I was on the way UP on the scale. I've ALWAYS been insecure about my weight... with the exception of a couple years where I was in tremendous shape. My wife is absolutely breathtaking to look at. Literally the most physically beautiful woman that I know.

I've always taken the attitude that you should love someone for who they are, not how they look. HOWEVER, I've come to realize that physical attraction is important, therefore, I've taken steps to feel better about myself which in itself is more attractive. My confidence has gone WAY up over the past month or so. I'm continuing to lose weight and get in better shape.

Anyway, I came home yesterday and I know I was looking GOOD. My daughter commented immediately when I walked in the door that I look really awesome. My wife looked at me and just went back to what she was doing, but I know she noticed.

So I got changed and went in the basement to play with our son. We've had a couple conversations during the day. Nothing heated, just talking. I keep re-iterating how I'm very happy with the changes I've made. I also told her that I'm much better prepared for a future relationship should she decide that she wants the divorce. I told her I'm sexier than ever, I feel sexy and attractive, I know I made some mistakes in the past but I've really learned alot going through this. I think that made her think a little bit.

So she comes downstairs and says "Hey, guys!" Somewhat upbeat. She sits down and says, "I feel alot better today." I just said, "That's good." Then she asked me to put the steaks on the grill if I want, otherwise, she'll do it. We sat down to dinner and she looked over the table and said, "I'm sorry for being so difficult lately." I said, "It's ok... I'm not going anywhere."

Before she left to go out with her friend she gave me a kiss good-bye.

Not saying that it's all better, but this, to me is a major breakthrough. I'll take alot of the credit for making this happen. I still have 24 pounds I want to lose.

She also committed to doing something together on Sunday. Not sure what yet, probably golf related and maybe dinner or a drink.

Oh, and then she mentioned going away with her parents for a weekend in New England and having my parents babysit the kids. This is HUGE since she hasn't wanted to plan anything together or do anything together.

Plan A and the 180 seems to be having an impact (on both of us!)

Still on guard, but enjoying this good feeling.

My plan is to not call my wife at all over the next several days unless necessary. I'll let her have some space and maybe even pursue my attention.

Is this ok?

Ok, just talked to the wife and seems like she's back to square one. She said she felt better this morning, then she talked to my mother and felt worse after re-hashing what she's so distressed about.

She's bringing up things from way in the past! Like waaaay past! She's having trouble seeing me in the here and now.

Seriously, I don't think there's an affair going on.

I'm continuing my 180 and Plan A, but I'm a bit frustrated at her roller coaster ride.

Ok, the wife talked with my mother. The beginning of the conversation she said that she's doing pretty good today (yesterday), then my mother said she hopes it works out, etc.

For some reason that set my wife off. She just started bashing me left and right to my own mother. All ancient stuff.

But then she calls me from work later last night just to check in. I totally leave her alone while she's at work. I don't call at all... I give her lots of space.

Is this roller coaster ride normal? Good? Bad? Any thoughts?

Walt,

Yes rehashing your past is part of the process at least in my M.

The FWS is still possibly in Justification mode.

Pointing out and holding onto your faults. Helps ease the guilt of an A. You know I used to get really mad about that. But now I know exactly what it is.

Yes the roller coaster ride is normal. Make sure with all the weight loss that you have your seat belt adjusted correctly and pull the lap bar down enough.

We went to MC the other night and it was a little funny to me that the FWW wants to sweep the A under the rug etc but has no problem talking about the time I .... 7 years ago or bringing up things from the past that I did or didn't do to hurt her.

Fine I will shoulder that now because I want to give her time to think about it.

The reason for my suggestion for a movie or a noisy place is it will be SAFE. There is anxiety on both sides I believe to going out and having a lot of time alone where it might be necessary to talk a lot. Remove that. It is nice to just sit and hold hands and be near without a word being said.

I hope things keep going well for you.

Thanks. I woke up today and said out loud... "so what's today going to bring". But I had a slight smile on my face. Sometimes I just shake my head and laugh. My wife's never been really easy to live with, but most of the time it's been funny to me, where I could have lost my mind many times. That's what's added to the character of our marriage (kind of).

I still feel ok, she doesn't realize it, but even to this day, 10 years into our marriage, when I see that there's a call coming in from her I get just a little bit excited. I'm a sap... but I like it.

I just got a call from my wife while posting this. Her grandmother died today. That sucks. She was old, sweet, caring, God-loving, and thoughtful. Lived a very simple life. I'm just going to be there for my wife through this. Not going to think about our situation if possible. Maybe seeing family during this time will make her realize what's important... maybe not. Either way, I'm just going to be there.

Any suggestions?

do as you said and give her space. i need to imitate that in you..........

yes she will justify alot. just walk it out.(in your mind)

one day she will look back on this and be amazed that you took all that crap.

rightnow you play "superman".