Ok 180+ coming up.

!. Do not do all it says on the list like a robot. To be effective you have to pick and choose. You are in MB, not divorcebusters.

2. the great part of this tactic is that it builds self esteem for you and respect in your WS eyes as a side effect.


3. This is the big one. We need to go over the list, choose those that fit, remove those that don't, reverse those that need be, and add those that are missing. This way we customise the technique to as close to MB principles as we can, or at least to do a little as possible that would counteract ground gained with MB in ourselves or our WS.

Loads of back and forth - ugh!!! I need new wrists..

Linda

Walt,

I'm not sure if you read this thread yet, but I thought you might benefit from seeing the relief a BS feels at FINALLY doing Plan B...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

silentlucidity said this after only having been doing it for a few days...



Sounds like you could use some relief too.


~ Marsh



PS: You look great!

Ya know Marsh is right - even doing the 180+ at home is like relief as it is all restricted to just looking after you and you are in your own little world ....


Linda

I'm so into Plan B right now and already feel better. Seeing the attorney tonight will be a pleasure. She's now really becoming worried about the consequences. TOO BAD!

The analogy about the bad job seems right on. It's weird because the butterflies seem to have died. I don't know if I'm entering Plan B by choice where it's alot of work, or by default because I've run out of patience and the wife has built up my wall of resentment and disgust.

Either way, I'm NOT going to the party tomorrow for our goddaughter, and we were supposed to go to Florida to visit her parents in November. Probably going to cancel that and go on the fishing trip that I usually go on.

I feel more relaxed today than I've felt since July 17 when she dropped the first D bomb on me. She's in counseling right now with the MC. I'm supposed to schedule one with the counselor for an individual session... maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'll think about it.

MM, thanks for the compliment!

Silverpool, I'll call you tomorrow. Thanks!

Walt,

Glad you are feeling better.

As the consequences grow and the reality starts to set in she may alter her course.

You should still go to the MC and IC sessions though. If not to work on your M but to work on yourself. You have a lot going on and talking to somebody about it will help.

Good luck and stay the course you are doing what is best for you and your family. Just know that to be true.

I may still do my IC with the guy. Not sure yet. Got alot of work going on right now and need to catch up on this stuff.

Freedom.

Plan B and MC at the same time doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Am I missing something with this?

my bad I meant IC not MC. Sometimes people go to the same person for both. They see the MC alone and then together.

For me the first MC we went to that is what we did. So it was kinda a mix of IC and MC at the same time but it didn't work.

Yeah, that's what our MC wants us to do. I'm going to call for an appointment for my IC first.

I'm really just done with it and don't want to bother with it at this point. I will go for my IC and give the counselor the harsh facts about life with my wife, the way I want to talk about it and the way I and my daughter know it.

The only person losing in this is her... Plan E for Enough.

Saw an attorney last night. I am definately in the cat bird seat!!!

I will have primary custody, collect child support, not have to pay alimoney, and stay in the house...

I had a brief discussion with my STBXW (I love that!) and she's freaking out! Crying, dropping LB's, begging for mercy... about time.

I know it's not very MB, but I'm somewhat calm and enjoying this. She's at a party with her relatives and the kids. I'm picking them up in a place between MY house and the party at 5:45.

I hope she sweats this one out for a loooong time. I don't think she's realizing what she's losing until now. She pulled out a budget and asked me to look at it. I told her that's not for me to figure out, that's for her to figure out.

She started asking me this morning about retirement assets... our only true liquid assets. I explained things to her, she said something that didn't make sense so I said "you have no idea what you're talking about", she said loudly, "I KNOW!". I stayed calm which p*ssed her off big time. I also recommended that she see a financial planner because if I explain it to her, she's going to think I'm trying to trick her into something. She's afraid that I'll "cook the books" somehow. There's nothing to cook!

This is actually too easy.

I'm so into Plan B it's rediculous.

Just wanted to fill you all in.

Is Plan B supposed to be this much fun?

Walt,

You are not in plan B. You are in contact with your W. You are talking to her, and interacting with her. You may be in a state of withdrawal, but not plan B.

AS for it being fun... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think you should step back just a second. I realize that a sense of revenge or of her simply getting what she asked for is a powerful and good feeling for you, but this event is the end of your family.

You don't want to be like her. You don't have to roll over on the divorce settlement. BUT, you can show her what she did not show you...compassion. You don't have to love her, or even like her, but you should show her some compassion.

I mentioned in my last post to you that I felt you would come out well from this, your kids would suffer from it, and your W will be the big loser. Well, it seems she will be. She will get what she asked for...away from you and out from under the daily constraints put on by having children. This is a good thing. You did not get what you asked for...you did not get your W back with love and compassion for you.

It may yet happen my friend but even if it does not be compassionate toward her, she lost more than she will realize for awhile and that is a man with a heart. Show her the heart Walt and let the anger go. You have improved yourself mightily in all of this, put the finishing touches on it with compassion.

Please think about this. You know the old saying "the best revenge is a life well lived." Show you KNOW how to live and show your children you know how to have compassion for someone who has done you very very wrong. It is a lesson they won't forget and neither will their mother.

God Bless,

JL

I see your point. She called last night from work very calm saying she wanted to do what's best for the kids, even if that means not seeing them as much. (What's best to me is working on the M and being a family, but whatever.) She asked how much I would be asking for CS. I told her I don't know, and I'd have to think about alot of things.

I guess I'm at a point where I just don't care about saving the M as much as I do protecting my kids and myself.

I will consider what you've said. I like that way of thinking. I'm not an angry person in general. I'm usually very happy and light-hearted, but when I see my family being hurt, I tend to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to protect them, or minimize the harm.

Thanks for the insightful point of view.

Walt:

I have read most of your posts and you seem to be more ready for a divorce than when this started. I want to say this to you. If your wife would quit seeing her other man and would refocus on you, she can fall back in love with you. The OM has got to go 100% or she won't be able to reconnect with you.

Secondly, how can you forgive the four unforgivable sexcapades? By simply making the choice to do so. It will take you two plus years to really move forward but it does happen. Betrayal is hard to forgive but it does prove that every human being will let someone down on something.

Your wife, I am sure, really needs help. Something is making it ok for her to cheat as many times as she has had. An affair building by accident is one thing, but 3 ways and repeated BJ's is another.

I found that the only way to get through an affair from your spouse is you must throw 100% of your pride away or you won't be able to forgive her. It is too early for her to feel remorse. Remorse happens after the reconnection of the spouses. Making her move out and going to Plan B is counter productive. If she leaves, she may be gone forever. Just my thoughts on your case.

TooSoon

Interesting. We can't do anything until our second home sells. I'm not hopeful at all for the wife's turnaround, and quite frankly don't know if I want it to turn around.

She's not seeing anyone right now to my knowledge and I've been keep tabs for months. If she is, she's doing an exquisite job of hiding it. I even blatantly asked her if there's someone in the wings. Also, I don't think she'd be so concerned about her living situation if there were someone like an OM there to break her fall... just my thoughts.

There are SO MANY changes that would need to be made by her, that I question if it could happen even with a person with the best of intentions.

Today is her birthday. We're getting take out and I got gifts for the kids to give her.

I really wish it could work out, but I think my ideas are more fantasy than possibility...

I do enjoy all your thoughts on the matter though...

Walt:

Stop doing what you are doing. You must either Plan A or B. There is no Plan A minus or Plan B Plus.

What you are doing is allowing her to suffer her consequences, but it is disorganized and as noted earlier, lacks compassion.

I thought you were so close, not so much as two weeks ago.

Think about what you are doing, ok?

Walt,

What you are doing is plan A and at the same time withdrawing. That is not bad. If there is no OM, then plan B is not really viable because one of the criterion for leaving plan B is NC with OM.

I think you are on the right track with regard to heading toward divorce right now. But, I don't think divorce is inevitable. Let me remind you of something.

You said
I would bet really good money she said the same thing about you and look what has happened. The REAL Walt has materialized out of the fat, and the emotional position you were in. The fact of the matter everyone here is proud of you because you had a huge task in front of you and you have tackled it and been overcoming it. You should be very very proud, and you will be even prouder if 10 years from now you have not reverted back to where you were.

My point???? Give your W the same opportunity to be a hero. That means you don't shut the door, but you do know what it is going to take for her to make the sort of turnaround you have. SHe may not, in which case she will lose you, and a lot of time with the kids. Your daughter doesn't think highly of her now, but remind your daughter that she should allow her mother to make the changes necessary to be someone you daughter can be proud of.

After all of this, the real issue is that your W has not given chance nor accepted the changes you have made. Do her one better, give her the chance and be willing to accept her changes IF she makes any.

I am not saying marriage at all costs. I am saying that right now neither of you are standing on firm footing, but as your changes become permenant and she does or does not see the need to change herself, the picture will clear up considerably.

The reality is that your W is in your life one way or another until you both die. You share children, you will share weddings, grandchildren, life via your kids. Boundaries are good, but well tended boundaries are better because they tend to recognize change when it happens.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Walt,

How are you doing?

How did the B-day with WW & kids go?

Let us know when you get a chance.


Stay Strong!

Moving toward divorce. I know that's not the typical answer here, but after alot of thinking, I'm very happy with the decision to get a D.

The wife isn't a good mom. She's very needy and has always had the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. She still doesn't show any real remorse, and continues to justify what she's done.

I've been beaten down by her for a long time and never realized it until now. My biggest emotional moments came from feelings of "failure" more than anything else.

Although we live in the same house, I'm really very disconnected from her. We're "living" together, but that's about it. It's actually a very civil, calm environment because now I TRULY do NOT have any expectations. I was supposed to go away with the kids to our second home this weekend to check on the place. Well, I won tickets to a football game that I'm bringing my daughter to. I told her i'm not going and it turns out she had plans with her best friend to go out on Friday night, stay over her house so she didn't have to drive (and can get drunk), and is going straight to work. She arranged for the dog to be in the kennel and everything.

She said she didn't tell me about it because she thought I'd get upset. I'm not upset though! I told her "we're getting a divorce. I don't care what you do, just leave the dog home so we can save the money."

The fact is I REALLY DON'T CARE!!! Actually, I'm looking forward to a peaceful weekend without her around.

Will she have second thoughts about the D? Maybe... not my problem anymore. I'm staying in the house with the kids. She'll visit during the time we agree to and that's the story. There will be some financial stuff to talk about, but that's it in a nutshell.

The only thing slowing things down is the sale of the second home. After that, I suggested we live together for another couple months to save up some money so we don't both walk away with nothing in our pockets. What's a couple months anyway? No different than right now except we'll be putting money away as a cushion.

Once I finally let go, it was really a relief. There are so many things that I learned to tolerate over the years and she became very complacent with it. Now I realize all the CR&P I won't have to deal with anymore and it's VERY LIBERATING!!!

Getting my daughter into a loving environment is a very big plus in my book. The house is just so darn peaceful when she's not in it...

The future is so freakin' bright!

Walt,

You may not understand this yet, but what you are doing is what this site is all about. It is not about saving the marriage at all costs. It is about deciding to remain married or to divorce only after one or both have given all they have, and have calmly and cooly looked at the decision.

Not all marriages make it. That is clear from Dr. Harley's writing. What he noticed was the "more" of them could be saved if people stepped back and gave it a chance. You have done this. You have made changes in you, how you look at things, you gave your W another chance and she won't/wouldn't take it.

Your decision is your decision, but it has been made after considerable effort on your part to save your marriage. Now in the light of day, you can surely make the decision that it should be ended. It was, it is, and it always be YOUR call.

So hang in there, still show compassion to her as it will allow your children to see how things should be handled, but don't give away anything you don't feel you should.

You are doing well.

God Bless,

JL