hopeandpray, VEIN is the most appropriate word. You'd be amazed at how much time is spent infront of a mirror. The extreme value she places on her appearance. After all, it's all she's got!!! I truly believe that she turns to this characteristic because of all the other things she doesn't like about herself. She gets attention based no her looks... therefore, she thinks that people like her and she's "not a bad person" as she puts it.

WHAT THE F DOES IT TAKE TODAY TO BE A BAD PERSON???

I think that she really has self esteem issues. It's so ironic that gorgeous women seem to have this problem... really weird.

There's so much more to life.

She's a walking case study. She brings NOTHING to the table in a relationship except HER needs. When she read HNHN, she used it to point out the things that I did wrong along the way!

She's even admitted that she has problems and keeps saying that crap that "she wants me to be happy".

I'm not stooping one bit to her level. She thinks that by her giving me permission to go out with other women, that she can do it and it's ok... well, it's NOT until she's out of the house and the D is over... ******, it hasn't even started yet!!!

I'm so frustrated with her. It's almost impossible to have an adult level conversation with her.

VEIN is the best word...

This is typical for a WS as they will rationalize and justify themselves into the A. You see if she thought about all the wonderful things you did for her it would cause a tremendous amount of conflict within her.

The easiest way is to shift blame and that way she can believe what she is doing is NOT bad.

Reverse babble when she says stuff like that. For example:

WS: I'm not a bad person

BS: Yes and my wife wasn't a bad person either.

These types of comebacks can make their way through the fog once and awhile.

Sounds like you need to find a way to get her out of the house now, and not wait until June. 7 months of this will not be healthy for you or your children. From what I have read, I don't think she will respect your boundaries. Does she not have local family or a single friend that could take her in?

If I were in this situation (and I almost was), I would think it would be easier to have her living with an OM instead of doing what she is doing right in front of you.

Plan B while in Plan D.

I feel for you brother.

HBD is right Walt. I lived like that for 8 months and it was a living he11. My WW claimed she was no longer seeing OM during that time but it still was awful as it feel like dying a slow death.

Having gone through it I would recommend doing whatever you have to in order to get her out. Weeks will seem like months and you will suffer incredibly.

Now that I am in Plan B I wish I knew of a way to get here sooner. DO what you have to.

Getting her out is something I'll have to strongly consider. It's almost impossible considering our financial situation right now. We make good money and can live separately if it weren't for our second home that WE BOUGHT WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING WITH OTHER MEN!!!!! (I struggle with that more than anything.)

Seems like I've finally gotten through to her a little bit about the welfare of the kids and the importance of her relationship with them right now. I can tell that even though my daughter realizes what a dirtbag her mother is, she still longs for a relationship with her... I can just tell.

I'll keep you all posted. This could start to get even more interesting.

Walt,

You are not divorced yet so she is married to you.

Start documenting everything. Especially any money she is spending.

If you are going for custody let her go see the OM. I know this sounds bad and it sucks but at this point it may only help you.

Find out from a lawyer what the ramifications would be.

The more time she spends with OM the less time she spends with the kids. That can only help you.

Heck turn up the heat and maybe she will move in with OM. That might really help.

Walt,

Hear FNM. Let her run and be with the OM. This does nothing but bolster your case for custody against her. She in effect is abandoning the family for a loser OM. Let her go.

I hope that you are going after her for child support and also get a clause that says no overnight stays by any unrelated persons while kids are present.

Walt:

I go back to your response to my question about where your were, Plan A, B or D?

You said:

"I really have no "Plan" at this point. I know we're getting divorced."

So go to your Lawyer, draft the papers the way you want them, and have her served.

Your Financial sitch in the next 7 months will not get "better" for you and you will not save enough money for the Attorney by then.

You do not know about all the money that she is spending supporting her habit. Just because she is throwing her "just friends" associations in your face doesn't mean that she is being honest with her financial shenanigans.

And no. You do not have all her credit card info, nor her checking accounts. You do not know what she has on the side. And you do not know what she might sign you up for. All it takes is one "sign up now" credit card offer that she responds to that has both your names on it. 10-15K is gone in 6 months.

I know this. My BS NEVER saw my American Express card statements.

So. Implement a Plan. Do not drift on the tide. Your floating will just drown you in the end.

Decide to pull your wife out of whatever morass she is in, and give it your all. Or just pull the trigger to make a D happen.

Sorry about the 2x4. But why continue adding to the pain?

Welp, we're almost there with the cash. Of course, she's in a hurry to do this, so she's willing to put less up as a retainer... whatever.

I will be filing in about two weeks. We'll have enough then. I will be writing up the agreement we came to, but it all hinges on the sale of our second home. Without that, it would be well on its way.

I hear you FNM, HnP, and LG... I didn't realize how hard it would be to drag this out a bit. I'm feeling some weird emotions I've never felt before, and never had to deal with in my life.

I'm a thinker by nature. Probably the worst type of personality for a person in my situation.

I need 2x4's every now and then... swing hard when appropriate.

My daughter and wife are going away for the weekend. My daughter is excited to see an effort from her mother. Sad that she has to feel like this is an unusual event, but I just hope that she's not getting set up for further disappointment down the road.

At home it's JUST THE BOYS weekend with my son!

Hopefully something good will come out of the weekend. I will be somewhat uneasy for the next two days.

Walt,

I was resistent to go to an independant counselor but I can now tell you it is well worth it.

I come here and it has helped. I will tell you this. Hearing from a trained professional that I am not crazy. Telling him what has happened and have him say that my feelings and reactions are normal helps.

If I were you I would consider trying IC. He will be able to help you through the wierd emotions.

My wierd emotions came from self doubt. Now that I don't have that doubt I can move forward in a sensible way without questioning myself or my sanity.

I've actually been seriously considering this lately. I probably will go at some point soon. My schedule is swamped for the next week or so, but after that i'd like to start going regularly... just for myself at this point.

Walt,

I have had two sessions. You can be seen at almost anytime. I am swamped too. I could have gone at lunch or right after work. That is when I go now. I have a five o'clock right around the corner from my office.

The thing is my IC is really validating a lot of what I have felt. Some stuff he calls me out and says maybe you can think like this. But for the most part it feels really good and it is for ME and for ME to feel better and get healthier.

Now is about you and I would say it may help.

Good idea. I'm going to call on Monday. I don't have my planner with me today, but will get on that soon. It'll be my gift to myself for the holidays... and maybe a new fly rod. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ironically, many interesting things are happening in my life.

1. Got an inquiry regarding a new job that I wasn't even looking for. Could mean working from home meaning my income will hardly suffer after the D.
2. The wife's parents called me to give them some help with something (the curse of having a big truck!). I don't think they even talked to their daughter (my wife) about it. Just kind of shutting her out of the loop. A little weird... but interesting.
3. I may have won the company football pool for a third time this year!
4. I got an onslaught of consulting side work just when I needed it.
5. My wife asked her mother if she thought she was crazy for doing what she is doing. My MIL said "I have nothing new to say to you about it." That was it.
6. The wife bought a new ski jacket. She came home, modeled it for me, asked my opinion on how to wear it, etc. I kept thinking "just get away from me" the whole time.
7. The wife slept in our bed last night... first time in a couple weeks.

There's some more, but you get the idea. I'm just going to enjoy it for it's entertainment value. Unfortunately/fortunately, the D is inevitable at this point. That train has left the station... just thought I'd share this stuff. Made me smile and shake my head in that "WTF" kind of way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In an effort to understand the wayward ways of my STBXW, I did some reading on "narcissism". Most of my struggles at this point come from not understanding her behavior. I can understand, to an extent, an affair, when it truly is an affair and not just a roll in the hay. My wife admits that alot of what she did was just physical with very little emotion.

My STBXW exhibits many classic symptoms of a narcissist, making me feel even better about MY decision for divorce.

Any thoughts?

Narcissism or whatever you want to call it, I don't want any part of a selfish, entitled, blame projecting, avoiding, vain and full of venom woman. I would have done anything to save my M and tried to. But, I also know that should she have come back there would have been some serious attitude adjustments on her part or I would have shown her the door.

I'm certainly reaching a new level of acceptance and excitement for the future. I honestly never realized the on-going harm that my wife was doing to me from my inside out.

It's the weirdest thing. I feel so free.

This site was awesome for me in getting to this point. I don't think I would be as happy as I am today unless I found this site and explored what it takes to have a great relationship... how I can be better at it.

I appreciate the occassional 2x4, and realize that some marriages just ain't gonna make it... and probably shouldn't!

Someone on this thread used the term "serial cheater". That stayed with me along with many other very well-thoughtout posts.

Her misery isn't at an end... it's just being moved around like an ugly piece of furniture.

Believe it or not, my inlaws are coming over for a few days before Christmas. This is so weird to me at this point, but I'm going to welcome them into MY home as good, caring people, regardless of their relationship with my wife.

Weird, yet calm and peaceful. Like that calm day after the hurricane passes through... or the wildfire scorches the earth and new life starts to sprout...

Corny... yes, but you get the point.

Walt,

You are a true success story, saved M or not. If ever you doubt it go back and look at your first post here and follow the thread to the end. Wow, what a change!!

Also, your physical transformation makes me want to get these last 25 lbs off before Christmas.

Good thing you are doing with the inlaws. I don't have the opportunity, way to much co-dependence, enabling, avoiding and lieing to themselves from my inlaws all to avoid making EX WW mad or "upset". This has been her problem for years, enabling, avoidance and more by the father and mother that "raised" her(she's adopted). If they had been more stern, adamant and less understanding of her selfishness and entitlement we may still be married and she would not be off having an affair with a MOM and lost custody of our son. Oh well, if if's and but's were candy and nuts...

The funny thing is, I'm not even bitter toward my wife. This makes her turn her head like a curious dog does. You know that tilt?

On Friday, she asked "what are you in such a good mood for?" I told her that I'm just in a good mood, it's the holidays, etc. She then asked "are you getting laid?" I just said "no". (Sad that this is what comes to her mind when she sees someone is in a good mood.) Then later she asked "why are you smiling so much?" I told her that I didn't realize I was smiling, and that I have alot to smile about. She said "I think you met someone".

Talk about being a prisoner in you own life. She can't even trust ME, how is she ever going to trust anyone in her life after the rampant sexual affairs, the lies, the cheating, the bad decisions, the lack of respect... She's laid the foundation for an incredibly empty life.

She still blames me for the fact that my family and her family are disappointed in her... because I told them what she did. She's not necessarily disappointed in herself for her bad decisions... just ticked that people now know about it.

She said "soon our neighbors will know, I can't even go to the store without worrying about running into one of your friends or your family... I've got to get out of this town and move on with my life". Again, not addressing her character flaws, just looking to run away from them to a place where people don't know her... yet.

Believe it or not, I actually feel sorry for her.