Thank you for the suggestions ears, A lot of times my mind is so confused at things that its hard to remember what to be doing.
I just need a little focus and you have helped create that for me.
Star is very wise and mywifeilove will be a great source of guidence for me.
He has more strength than anyone I know. He will be my model from here on out.
Thank you all.

Thank-you for the kind compliment. I'd say don't ask her to go to the game. She knows YOU know about other man, if it comes up in some conversation between now and then (when SHE calls or emails) (and IF WED. night plans are mentioned by her, you can just say, "Well, I'm busy Wed. evening" Otherwise, don't volunteer anything about what you are doing! When she calls (if you have caller ID) you DON'T have to answer everytime!!!! Not passive aggressive, mind you, just think.....do I really NEED to talk to her right now???? You'll get the hang of it as you learn and practice the MB principals. She needs to see STRENGTH from you......of YOU!!!!! Show her you are fine......because YOU ARE!!!! Life with or without her doesn't make YOU!!!!!! You have much to offer the rest of the world....if she is fortunate enough to realize what you have to offer, then she can choose to include herself in your life.

EVERY interatction with WW from here on out should include NO relationship talk!!!!! NONE!!! Be friendly and NOT needy or SAD in front of her!!!! UNDERSTAND?????

See....it will happen that way anyway.....if you are depressed about the situation....it will only prolong it!!! She needs to be re-attracted to you...and all the things that would normally be embraced by you before as her husband...are now shining her mistakes onto herself....NOT A GOOD SITCH. FOR MOST PEOPLE!!!!!

The sooner you do things for yourself....the sooner you will easily be able to interact with WW in an attractive way!!! And hopefully it will coincide with the fall of the affair!!!!

MWIL

Mwil,



I am done taking about our M, like others have said before, “you’ve talked your M to death and she’s heard nothing (fog)”
I am always upbeat, happy and smiling when she sees me and never mopey. I understand that this attitude will look better to her anyway.
Also makes me feel better about myself.


I love her but all she see's right now is the kids and the om.
I'll follow your plan and hopefully she will see some desire in the future to reconnect with me.

I can do this George, I can.


She called me this morning to say she found a couple of cars she might like (right down the street from where I work)
She wants me to go by there (I know the owner) and see if he would be willing to trade. I told her he would probably like to see it first and she said “cant you just go down and see if he would be interested in a full size van?”
I just said ok.
I need to get rid of this as the payment is due in a week. I reminded her this morning and she said "I know"
Probobly be my fault when it don't sell. Ya Know?

I’m not going to call her back, I’ll just wait until she calls me and then tell her what he says.

Thoughts?
All ideas welcome

Former ww’s PLEASE HELP if you can

My situation seems to be different than a lot (but maybe the same).
My ww has never told me anything…..I mean nothing other than bits and pieces, I can’t tell how long her A has been going on. I have NO clue.

Could he be someone that she is having fun with, with no expectations of relationship?
Is he an after product of her feeling lost in our marriage or was she waiting to leave before she “hooked up” with him?

Things I would like to know.
Sometimes I’m just not sure.
Mwil? Your fww talked about her om to you….my ww wont say anything about her om, never has said anything since she left and not much before.
I wish she would give me something. Tell me I’m an idiot whatever.

WHATS GOING ON?

I look for answers to so many questions that come and go every minute.
She has said doesn’t love me.
She wants to be left alone to go her own way.
Our relationship is done.
Don’t have hope…I wish you would stop having hope…its done, give up.
She said I don’t want to work on this anymore…I’ve made up my mind, I’ve thought about this for a long long time and I’m just done.
Me “Do you want a divorce?” her “Yes I want a divorce” me “when?” her” I cant afford it right now”
Om is a friend of her “trashy” sister. I’m sure sister set them up at the bar. Ww used to go see her sister at her bar and om was seen sitting with ww and talking to ww and ww sister.
Ww is having trouble keeping the kids in line. Says they are stressing her out so much she can’t take there bickering anymore.
Om has not been over there the last 2 nights…is phone contact enough for them?
Does she just wait for the kids to be with me and then see him?
I asked “do you love him”? ww---I don’t know its to soon , I’m just having fun right now”
Whats that mean?
She’s kept kids 2 or 3 days this week so I’m sure she will send them to me tonight (Friday) go out with om?
Will she ever be able to love me again?
How long will it take?
What should I be doing when I’m around her?
Should I help her when she askes for help? (selling the van etc)
What are a ww’s emotional needs?
Which ones can I fill?
How do I fill them?
She will have bills coming up soon, I have told her in the past that I will help her but I don’t think I can afford it now.
I’ve told her several times lately that I’m having $ troubles also.
She should be getting the hint but what happens when she askes me for money?
Do I try to help her? If I do is that an love bank deposit?
If I don’t help her isn’t that like Lbing?

Ok I’ll stop for now but you can see how confused I am

Fww’s out there chime in please…..how do you see all of this?


Thanks for the help everyone.
JS

JS....you're right....this is a confusing time. Please don't go from being controlling to be enabling by "over" correcting in a way that enables the affair. Go back and read my advice again.....because I tried very hard to help you balance the need to show the marriage as an attractive alternative without being "nice" about the affair.

here are some bullets:

*Don't call your wife, but be responsive when she calls you.

*Don't discuss the marriage, but don't pretend you're okay her relationship with Frank either.

*Don't try to control what she does....concentrate your efforts on controlling what you do in a calm and logical way.

*Don't help her separate from you....with the apt., the car, the finances....doing those things alone is part of the consequences of leaving you.

*Don't tell her that you love her, miss her, need her etc.....unless she tells you those things first. THEN, your response should be "me too"....but don't elaborate.

*Keep communications short and pleasant and be the first to hang up, but don't listen to her problems about navigating separation or her feelings for Frank.

*Don't ask her questions about her affair.

*Don't stalk her....make sure any snooping is undetectable and quiet. Don't reveal your sources.

*Encourage those people who support your marriage to influence her to do the right thing for your family.

*Good going on helping your children and protecting them....keep it up!

*Finally....be still. It's better to be calm than to be "floundering" and trying different approaches. Consistency is the key right now.

hang in there buddy!!!

Thanks Star, I'm glad your here.

More info.

WW called a couple times last night wanting to say goodnight to kids.
I was online and my cell was off.
got offline and then turned cell on and had a message.
Just called to see how S12 was and say goodnight to the kids.
I called her back when I put the kids to bed and put the phone on speaker so both kids could say goodnight.
D7 asked "who's over there? (tv in background)
WW said "nobody honey I'm all alone watching tv.

She asked to talk to me, she said is s12 allright? (his head was hurting from an earlier fall)
I said "here he is"
afterwords she asked for me again.
She said "I will call in the morning to see how he is doing."
I said "thats alright, I'll keep an eye on him and if he doesn't feel well I will take him to the clinic".
She said "ok, well I'll call in the morning to see how he is doing and see if you want to go look at cars or not".

I said "ok by".
This morning I was on the phone with my mom and the call waiting beeped but I didn't answer it.
I got the kids ready and we drove to Wisconsin to the zoo and spent the day there.
We had a ball, but I must admit, it was hard at times seeing all of the couples there and families.
People wearing wedding rings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
She didn't try me on my cell phone but when I got home she had 2 messages on the answer machine 1 at 10:58 (right after we left) and one at 3:55 (about 5 minutes before we got home)
D7 wanted to call her anyway so I dialed the phone and just let D7 talk to her and S12 talked and then handed me the phone. I said "I dont need anything" S12 "she wants to talk to you.
JS "Hi whats up?"
WW "I tried to trade the van in today, sat at the dealership for 2 1/2 hours, no luck, they wont trade for even up they only trade up with money."
JS "you should try that dealership that sells all of the conversion vans."
WW "I was thinking that we could get a loan for $2000.00 and pay it off and then take our time to sell it or trade it."
JS "yeah thats a good idea, where can you get the money from?"
WW "dont YOU have anyone you could borrow it from?"

JS (falling down laughing my a$$ off).....no just kidding. (thats what I was thinking though) (IS SHE KIDDING ME)

JS "I dont know anyone I could borrow from, besides I couldn't pay them back anyhow."
WW *shaky voice* What about your mom and dad?"

in the past my mom and dad have said they would loan us money any time we needed it for anything.
Now they have told me that I will be alright no matter what and that they would give me anything the kids and i need.
AFTER THE DIVORCE

JS "I don't think they would" "dont you know anyone?"
WW *sounding very shaky now* No...I just don't know what to do"
JS "well we will have to talk about it somemore.
WW *very upset* ok I'm at the store now"
JS "ok by"


Any Thoughts on this?3
JS

JS,

I think you did very very well!! Kudos! For the first time....I really think you're getting the hang of this...YAY!

You were calm, but firm....you kept giving her responsibility for handling her own stuff. You didn't cave in and try to "rescue" her. You didn't drill her with questions. You weren't cold or unfriendly....but you we'ren't enabling either. Keep it up chere.

After she stops shaking and crying....she might get mad....so be prepared for how to handle that okay? It's super important that you don't lose your cool. It will be hard for you to watch her face the consequences without wanting to step in.....but don't do it.

I was just as flabberghasted as you were when she suggested you borrow money from your parents for her. HUH???? OMG....the gall of the WS is unbelievable sometimes. It's going to be a cold splash of water when she realizes that you aren't going to help her leave you and destroy your family....but it may go a long way towards helping her realize that the fantasy she's been living....is just that....let reality set in a bit. You can offer compassion....but not help and not money.

*good going*

D7 called ww this morning...no answer on house phone or cell phone.
ww called back and d7 answered. d7--where you at mommy?
ww--"I'm at home, I just got up" (it was about 9:30-10:00)
d7 "when are you coming to get us".
ww "I have to take a shower and then I'll be over"

When ww got here I had taken a shower and was wearing dress shorts and a nice shirt and she looked like crapola wearing sweat pants and a t-shirt...no makeup (a first for her)
I dont think there has been 2 days I can remember where she didn't wear makeup even when cleaning the house, but she never would leave the house looking like this.

was she trying to look sad?

She did have a couple of baskets of laundry in the van....You know I wanted to say "why dont you do your laundry when the kids aren't with you and do something fun when they are with you".

I had d7 and s5 outside and we were playing football in the yard and laughing our buts off.
I said hi, she said hi wheres s12 at" D7 told her he was at a friends house" WW----"he didn't want to go with us?" Js----"no he wasn't going to go". she loaded up bikes and scooters while I played with s5 and she told kids to get in the van and I followed and said by to the kids.
Said have fun guys and then ww said wait a minute.
JS "whats up?"
ww "I talked to my mom and she said she would loan me the $2000.00 to pay the van off".
JS "oh, good deal".
WW "I wanted to take the van to that car lot you were telling me about with the conversion vans, I will take just about anything on trade for it."
Js thats fine, you can do whatever you want to on that".
WW "I was wondering if I could take all of the kids to football practice tomorrow night and you could run by there with the van and try to trade it. I dont care what I get in trade, you know what I'm looking for".
JS " No, I'd rather you did it because I dont want to decide on something you wouldn't like to have".
ww (lookin a little mad) (like I knew you wouldn't help me)
She just walked around and got in the van and didn't say anything...she was just kind of shaking her head.
I was already walking away.

I also got right in my car and drove away, kind of went in a direction that would leave her wondering where i was going.

It's so hard to not help her and all I was thinking was, How the he!! can you ask me to do anything for you while your jumping in and out of bed with someone else.
I'm suppose to just sit here and wait for you to get out of bed with your dirtbag boyfriend and then jump up and get you a new car, like nothings wrong here?????

UUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH <------JS screaming mad, but calm on the outside.
Thanks Star for the kind words and yelling here at you guys really seams to help me.
My family is really proud of the fact that I am handling all of this so well.
I give you guys and MB all of the credit. My sister said she didn't really agree with everything I'm being told here untill I reminded her that you are the ones who have given me the direction to not help ww anymore and stand up fpr myself (and heal myself)....she's now changing her tune since the last few days.
She has said "it sounds like they have a great plan for you and I'm glad you have those wonderfull people.
I honestly dont think ww will ever come back to me but I still have hope and keep remembering what others here have said.

"as long as one person is still working on the marriage than the marriage still has a chance"


Mostly I have hope.....hope is a good thing I think. (movie quote)

Trivia question......What movie is the above quote from?

You cant guess unless you give me some kind of thoughts or suggestions on my situation.....LOL LOL


JS

I don't know about the movie line JS....I even tried googling it and couldn't pull up anything. Maybe some others will have some guesses.

Anything your wife wants help with right now....is help to leave you or use you. That's an ugly fact....but a fact just the same. Until she comes to you about help to come home....don't help.

It's okay to say "no" and it's okay if she's not happy about it. As a suggestion of language you can use to address that issue....here's a sample of what you might say: "It's very hard not to help you, or try to rescue you, but then I remember that all of this is about your life without me. Please don't ask me to help you end our marriage....I can't help you to leave me or make that convenient for you. You're going to have to work through the details of your separate life without my help. And you're going to have to choose to come home to your family and your husband....or not. I'm not trying to hurt you, but I will protect myself from being involved in your "single" life problems, because that's painful to me and it only makes me feel used."

In this way....you confront without neediness or anger. I think you handled the car situation well JS....keep your balance and your cool. Be assertive without anger....be honest and direct about your own feelings. Plan A is not about being "nice" it's about controlling lovebusters, filling the needs you can (which will not me many probably), confronting and exposing. Nice is for chumps....I'd rather you were loving and assertive....but don't let her use you or walk all over you. Love yourself as much as you love her and you'll be able to keep that important balance.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((((((((((((Star))))))))))
You’ve been so good to me and your words (as always) have a calming effect on me.

You just answered my next question, before I even asked it. I was wondering what to say when she asked me for things like the car. Thank you so much.

(“BE STILL” something I heard mywifeilove say many times. He was “being STILL.”) easier said then done.

I did print out your earlier post yesterday and read it many times last night but I see I need to keep it in my pocket at all times so when I get <antsy> or nervous, it will be right there.

Any ideas on how to expose to her mother?
I don’t think I can do it right now…actually, I don’t want to yet.

I would guess mil doesn’t know about Frank yet but maybe she does. WW would probably tell her mother that I didn’t know anything and that Frank is just a friend. (which as far as I know is true) because I don’t have any proof except that he spends the night there once in a while.
Like I don’t know whats going on.
The problem is that she had him spend the night when the kids were there and he slept on the living room floor by himself.
Kids told me that so now she can just say that he crashes there once in a while.
I need to get solid info on his last name/address/family etc. but nothing yet.

Only thing ww has told me (when I asked) is that she don’t know if she is in love with him yet because “it’s too soon” and that “I’m just having fun right now” Makes me want to PUKE!

JS,

I like how you're starting to be a little more assertive in your situation. Keep it up. It was quite interesting to read all of MWIL's story. Truly inspirational and hopefully a valuable tool for you to use during your attempts to bring your W back to you.

I'm totally perplexed how both you and MWIL's Ws left for dirtbag men. What is up with that? What is that they can offer that you can't? It must be those LBs that pushed them away. This dork must let her do whatever she pleases and creates no responsibilities for her.

Keep up the good work. This scumbag will show his true colors. One day she'll have an awakening and realize she's living with pond scum.

I would imagine it was hard to watch your W walk away shaking her head. You probably feel like she's hating you now. You're probably trying to guess what she was thinking. That you're pushing her away from you. That she feels she now entitled to leave you because you're just being mean and vindictive.

It's that way because up till now you've been very supportive of what she's wanted you to do. And now you're doing an about-face. That's OK don't stop doing what you're doing. And if your W's walking away shaking her head bothers you then maybe saying something similar to what Star recommended in her previous post would help you feel better about your behavior. Your doing the right thing. Keep it up.

Your W has to realize you aren't going to encourage her to live this single life. Especially when it obvious this other life isn't about having independence, it's about screwing some other guy and letting him feel her needs. (Torques me to no end the way WSs will lie through their teeth to cover up the real reason they want to split up). "I need my independence". Horse-fritters. She should have said "I'm in love with someone else I think and I want to leave you.".

I'd love to see you get your feet under you. I love how MWIL put it. "I'm grounded" , "I'm still". I'd love to see you get yourself to where he did. I realize you want your M but you have to go into this knowing you don't need to be M'd to her to be happy. You can (and may have to) move on and be extremely happy. You will more than likely find love again someday.

This lastest action seems to be a step in the right direction. One suggestion ... stop calling her. Unless it's an emergency don't call. Let the kids have the conversations with her. Do as MWIL did. You converse with her using "Yes, No and OK.". Keep it short. Keep it dark. Be strong, confident and attractive.

Someday the wheels of this A are going to come crashing down on her and she's going to look at what you've become and she's going to be drawn to you like a magnet. She's going to regret her choice. You being a doormat isn't going to create that magnetism.

Good luck. I'm scarce around here lately but I'm keeping tabs on you. Hoping for the best.

MyAlias,

My good friend.

You don't know how good it is to here from you again. I was wondering where you went...I do see you on here once in a while. Thanks for your support and thank you for reading mywifeilove's thread.
Your input is greatly appreciated.


Oh, I hope so Mya, I'm trying to stay "grounded", Its not easy.
I haven't called her in three days now....any calls to her will come from the kids when they want to speak to her.
She called me last night and just said, "D7 just got out of bed and wanted to say goodnight to you". She could have just let d7 call.
I said "ok"
Talked to d7 and s5 and then told s5 goodnight, ilu, bye and hung up.
D7 told me they went to Franks dads house or somewhere (I don't think she was sure) and that they had horses there.
Looks like ww is going to keep cramming Frank down there throats.
Didn't give them a chance to hand her the phone.
D7 always says "here talk to mommy" so in the future I will talk to D7 first and then ask to talk to S5 and then I can just hang up before she gets on the phone.

Took pictures from the zoo Saturday and e-mailed them to my family and to ww's mother but not to ww.
Put a note that said "here the pictures from the zoo Saturday, We had a blast but we all still miss mommy.

Thanks everyone.

The movie quote was from Shawshank Redemption, I'm not sure I got it word for word so thats why I'm giving out the answer.

Not in the mood right now to give another quote...maybe later.
Jeff

Hey JS,

You know I'm not sure I've given you good advice here. In my last post I told you to go dark but I think that is more geared towards a Plan B. Which I'm NOT completely sure that's where you should be at this time.

Thinking back on MWIL's story he did a Plan A, then went to Plan B, THEN he called Dr. Harley and he recommended he go back to Plan A because he didn't do a decent enough Plan A. He did this while his W was in a big-time A.

I'm not sure where you should be right now. It's quite possible your Plan A wasn't complete. The only reason I'd believe it was close to complete is that your W is still using you to complete things she should do on her own considering she left and moved out and moved on to someone else.

I'm just not sure your Plan A was attractive enough for her. It could be that she still felt some LBs. Some things she hasn't been able to fully identify for you.

MWIL's advice to you was to keep yourself busy doing things for you. Act like you're moving on. Still you can do this things while still doing a Plan A.

I think it may help you considerably to do as MWIL did and give the Harleys a call. Not sure what your financial sich is but when it comes to saving a M you truly want what's a little more debt. Whether you can afford it or not I'd continue to go back and read MWIL's threads for examples of how to behave during certain key situations. Make sure you get a good game plan. Make sure you know how to stick with it. Be consistent.

Sorry to waffle around like this. I truly hope you find the path that gives you your best chance of winning your W back.

Take care.

The other men in your's and my sitch. certainly are well trained at manipulation to "draw" an unknowing person into their lives. They do not demonstrate their true "dirtbag" character as they court our wives.....the OM in my sitch always told my FWW, "You should go back to your husband...this isn't right.....then a few minutes later...hit the sack with her. Classic way to attract a woman....and ultimately makes the WW feel like they are the one's doing the pursuing, because "he told me to go back to you"....yet when it was time to get busy.....his "psuedo moral character" quickly turned toward his ultimate goal of getting in bed with my wife. They all learn this....I am sure that this wasn't his first attempt at "luring women" into his dispicable life.

Luckily for me, my FWW began to see his true character, as I began to let her go and move on.

MWIL,

Sorry to call you out but I think you can provide some key advice to JS.

I'm still pondering where JS should be at this point ... A or B?

Here's what truly bothers me. From the beginning his W has told him "I married too young. And I want to go find myself. I want to stand on my own. I've felt too controlled by you.".

That's about the extent of information she's volunteered to him. He's left thinking he needs to let her go (because she feels she needs it) and still work on his controlling behavior (because she feels he is controlling).

So he helps her (somewhat) to separate herself and gain this independence. Of course she isn't independent because she comes to him for help around every bend. She doesn't want him to control what she should do but she wants him to handle all the tough, uncomfortable things for her.

And come to find out she's involved in some kind of A. Whether EA or PA who knows. So she's fogged and possibly has been since day one.

My real guess in this is that JS hasn't changed enough to make himself attractive to his W. She left and he's continued on in a somewhat similar role. Lately he's beginning to separate and appear to move on. Yet due to timing she probably feels he's separating because he's ticked about the newly found A (duh?). Still he's never been able to identify specifically all his faults, all his LBs. And she's gone. She's moved on. She isn't clueing him in on what he would need to do to a great Plan A.

So I was hoping we could give him a good detailed plan. As you can see he needs crib notes to keep his mind focused. (sorry to talk as if you weren't here JS. I hope I'm not offending you in any way). He's had large troubles staying focused and avoiding looking desperate and needy. Right now I'd say his W probably feels he NEEDS this M instead of him just WANTING it.

Again I'd like to hear emphatically whether he should be Plan Aing or Plan Bing.

I think he wants to Plan B her butt to get back at her for having this A yet he still attempts Plan A behavior when he's having contact with her.

Thoughts?

It's still good to here from you Mya. Thanks for checking up on me and for the moral support you've given me.

Mwil,
This is what I'm hoping for. I really hope she see's this.

I feel so good about having you here as a coach and I am rereading your whole story again to help remind me why I'm doing this.
I feel good about not talking to her now. I sent her grandma an e-mail this morning with the zoo pictures from Saturday and she wrote me back and said "thanks for the pictures, you just saved me trip to the zoo." "The kids looked like they had a good time."

She then sent me another e-mail with a joke on it so its nice to be communicating with her.
JS aka Jeff

Oh and JS here's the Shawshank redemption quotes I liked from that movie. (I've watched it at least 4 times).

Red (to Andy): Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

Andy (later to Red): Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And a good thing never dies.

Red: (later to himself) I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in
my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel... a free man at the start of a long journey who's conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope.

Thanks MyAlias,
Thanks for showing me up. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Man did I mess up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Sorry Star*Fish and everyone else wracking there brains.
My promise to you all this morning is that if I have any more "Trivia" questions on movie quotes they will be "correct quotes".
Oh how dumn I feel..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />..maybe I'll go back and delete that post.

Just got a e-mail from ww, I wont repond to it and if she calls I'll just say I've been busy, busy, busy at work.
Here it is.



Any thoughts?
J

Your response:

Okay....sounds good as long as you keep in mind that I do not want Frank to be there at the same time as my children. (If you plan on participating in some of the back to school activities...and I hope you do....insert that here) I'm glad you'll have the kids tonight because I've been wanting to go out and ___________ (insert some fun thing that shows you're not pining at home).

She has been school shopping for them so I know she wants to be involved with them.
How about this?



S12 will probobly want to stay with me tonight, not sure.
Any ideas on how to word that or should I even send it?
J