I'm trying Mya but when she called last night it was at a time when I had the kids and she already knew where I was at.
No getting around that but when she calls at night I'm to the point right now where I don't answer the phone unless S12 is there with me and heres it too.
The hard part is at night around 9:00, my kids are calling to say goodnight and I don't answer.

D7 keeps asking me "where were you daddy?" I just say "oh nowhere". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

~edited to add~
I should tell her "I'm hiding from aliens" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WW e-mailed her resume to her mom to check over and her mom made some changes and e-mailed it back to WW but WW's computer wouldn't open it so she forwarded it to me. I changed the format and e-mailed it back to WW and she just e-mailed me again.
Here it is.


What do you make of this?
Do I care why she is crying?
I think I already know that answer but I would still like some thoughts.
I'm sure she would like my help (with the van etc.) but no way.

Oh yeah, when I changed the format of the resume and returned it to WW, I labled it Fwd,Reply: and it went to her moms inbox as well.
Just in case mil thinks that I'm not helping WW.


JS

edit
should i tell her to go trade the van or is that a love buster

Are you asking us to answer this? Of course you care that she's crying. We wouldn't want you to stop caring. But caring doesn't mean you need to fix it for her. If she needs a shoulder to cry on then be that friend but make her ask that of you. Don't go offering it up. You could maybe hint that you'd want to help but aren't sure what you should do given the circumstances.

(Hopefully other more educated posters will provide some advice).



Don't tell her what to do. Let her figure it out. If she asks your opinion then answer honestly. What does trading the van mean to you? How does it impact your R with her? You can be honest with her.

"If you're asking me I would say I don't want you to trade it. Trading it means you are moving on. Looking for more permanent ways to separate yourself from me and our M.

~Bumped~
More thoughts please.
cmon mr and mrs helpers, I know your out there. lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<bump>

JS,

When my FWW cried, all I said was "If I can help, I'm here to listen, everything is going to be ok....you're a strong woman" Now, in you sitch...I'm not so sure you are at this position yet....and it never hurts to error on the side of silence!

Take the kids out for some ice-cream....maybe invite her to come, as you are on your way (cell phone????)

Just a thought, but it will show her you are strong enough to do fun things with kids, and that you are still "man enough" to invite her.

MWIL

Ok, so ww is having big trouble at her work, coworker left, coworkers boyfriend (boss) left because he had a nervous breakdown.
I talked a little with ww last night about this and she is starting to believe that they were steeling money from the company. (New owner is in there checking the books)
I told ww that she should be careful talking to ex coworker because she will give wife bad info no matter what.
I gave her advice and noticed after saying that that it was WRONG. WW said ok I got to go.
Not sure if it was because of my advice or because Frank showed up. WW called to say goodnight to kids and D7 asked “who’s there”
WW “nobody”
This morning I had my coworker drive by and see if Om’s truck was there (it was) and had him get me his license number.
Gave license number to ex cop friend of mine so I should have some info in the next couple of days on OM.

WW is almost totally sure that her company will close. She works for a trucking company that has 35 drivers.
Boss left and said he probably wont be back. All 3 of the guys in the office have several semi’s of there own and are ready to leave the company right now.
Everybody is very unhappy there and ww thinks it will be only a matter of days until they close and she is ready to leave NOW.
This is very depressing for her right now coupled with the kids being out of control and the van situation.

Does any of this help my cause? I don’t know……..any thoughts?

Asked ww if she was taking the van to the car dealership last night? WW-“no I’m just letting my brain heal and I’m going to just chill” (with Frank of course).
I asked her if she needed the payment book for the van, she said no, I have the loan number. I asked if mom sent her the money yet? She said that she would pay for it over the phone if it came to that. I reminded her that the payment was due yesterday. She said “I know its just to much for me to think about right now.

I still get that burning feeling inside when I think of her with OM or here about him from kids.
Any cure for that?

Last night she wanted me to have the kids. When I have them Frank stays the night with her and when she has them he doesn’t.
She wanted them tonight and Friday night. I told her this morning that they wanted to stay with me tonight and she seemed bummed. I said you can have them this weekend if they want to stay with you.
Wouldn’t she want to spend more time with Frank and have him spend the night?

Any more thoughts on any of this?

JS

(((JS))) I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know there are plenty of us thinking about you and praying for you, even when we don't post because we don't have the right words.

Sorry to hear your W's PA is continuining. I'm not surprised of course.

Good to hear you're going to be able to learn more about this Frank character. I would be extremely concerned about my kids being exposed to some scumbag.

Sorry to hear about your W's troubles at work. Does it help your cause? I don't know. How big of an EN is FS for her? Does this Frank clown work? Can he fill that need should she lose her job? Will she be able to rebound quickly and get another job? I suspect this could actually hurt your cause, help your cause or have no effect on your cause.

STOP ASKING YOUR W ABOUT THE VAN. She's built an indenpendent life from you. Let her own her responsibilities. If she starts missing payments and starts affecting your credit rating then get involved. Otherwise let her deal with it. Why are you bringing it up? Your helping her maintain her independent life.

As for Frank and your burning feeling as an outsider I could say try to turn it around into determination. Determination to win her back. Easier said than done I know. The best I can offer you is to keep busy. We've all mentioned this several times. Are you doing anything about that? Or are you sitting at home waiting for your life to move towards you? You got to make something for yourself here. What are some of the things you did before you had kids? I honestly can't remember you answering this question.

As far as her making requests on when she wants the kids ... well she wants them when it's convenient for her. When Frank isn't available. You know ... those days when he's meeting up with his worthless drug dealing friends getting high or getting wasted off his [censored].

I want to bring something up. Your W mentioned she's just having fun right now. Well what are you doing to show her that you can be fun too???? Outside of doing the kid's activities (football practice, etc.) what are you doing to have fun with or without them and with or without her?? You want your W to come back to you ... then listen to what she's saying. She wants to have some fun. So you do some fun things, alone and with the kids, and show her life with you doesn't have to feel boring. There should be some excitement in your home and she should be missing that.

Not only do you have to be a good guy JS you have to be an attractive guy. You need to treat your W well when the opportunities present themselves, you need to have fun with or without her, you need to take care of yourself and your appearance, and you need to align yourself so you can move on should you be left no other choice.

Again I have no experience in matters of affairs but I can see what you are currently doing is having little affect. You need to step it up. You need to make a new you because the old you wasn't able to maintain the M. Sorry if that sounds harsh. It isn't intended to be. We all make mistakes and the best we can do is learn from them and improve from them.

Thank you Ears,
You've posted to me before and its nice to here from you again.
I had told the kids yesterday morning that they would be with me last night.
Get home from work and ww is waiting to take the kids to football practice. D7 wanted to go home with ww last night, S5 wanted to stay at home with neighbor friend, s12 had to get to practice.
This morning ww pulls up with D7 and her back tire on the van keeps going flat. I said "you need to get air in that tire."
WW (looking in the back of the van) "yeah I know, I'm thought I had a can of Fix-A-Flat in here."
WW "I was going to stop and put air in the tire but I'm in such a hurry that I thought I would just come here first and put some F-A-F in it."
I said "I dont have any here".
WW "I'll just run to the gas station and get some."
JS "ok I'm going to work".
WW "what about the kids?"
JS S12 will be here untill you get back".
WW <PO'd> "never mind"
JS "WW if you want me to stay I can stay and wait untill you gat back".
ww "no I just got so much stuff to do and if I go now I'll be late to daycare".
ww <walking by my car>
JS <started to tell her that S12 said he stay at her house tonight.
WW ignored me and acted like she didn't here me.<nose in the air>
JS <happily driving to work>

Had 2 missed calls on my cell from my house after I left. Dont know how I missed them.
Waited about 10 minutes and called home.
S5 answered.
JS "did someone call me?"
S5 "yeah mommy wanted to know if I ate breakfast yet."
JS "did you tell her you did?"
S5 "yeah but she wanted to ask you anyway."
JS "put her on."
WW "hi, I was just checking to make sure S5 ate breakfast before I took him to daycare."
JS "yeah he ate".
WW "ok just checking."
JS "should I have got him dressed this morning?"
WW "no thats alright, just so there out of bed when I get here".
JS "ok, If you need me to do anything else before you get here in the morning, just call".
WW "ok thanks"

I wanted to help her with the van tire but I keep remembering what others here have told me. Let her do this on her own!!!

Such turmoil in her life.

What can I do?

JS

Morning Mya,

FS Big emotional need, I think.
Not sure if Frank has a job, I think he does.
Doubt Frank would help her financially, Doubt she would ask, Who Knows?
Shes a good worker and should be able to get unemployment of maybe another job.

Sorry, I asked her that because the payment is overdue.
I'll stop.


I'm going to try to remember this. Thank you for the idea.

When ww and I met we didn't do much of anything, we were both home bodies and loved just staying at home.
I did tell you once before that I've always had motorcycles but thats a little hard to do in my financial situation and its not much fun for the kids.
I'm either going to go to a highschool football game tonight or out with somebody.
I was just thinking that my S12 will probobly want to go to the football game tonight anyway with friends so I might just take him.
WW wants him to stay with her tonight but I'll bet he will want to go with his friends.
I'll just take him myself.


I took all of them to the zoo on Sunday, I'm going to the football game tonight.
Otherwise we always hung out around the house with the neighbors. (that got boring for her)
I was going to take them to the state park on Saturday or Sunday to go on a hike and a picnic.
I'm not going to ask her to go though because she always says no.
Or should I ask?
I think its better if I just go without her and show her that doing things with the kids without her is not hard.

I've never been down when I see her, trying to laugh and look happy, like I'm fine with all of this.
I'm lookin very good right now. 5'10" was 220lbs now 190lbs.
Dress nice, always showered when she see's me, smelling good (new cologne).
I can move on, with some hot momma's (I might add) if I so choose to.

Thanks for the responses everyone, yesterday I was having a really down day (although I didn't let her see this) but today I'm doing a lot better.

JS

P.S. someday I post a picture.

I would recommend you don't ask. If she asks what you did over the weekend you can fill her in. Oh and sure you want to show her that you can handle taking the kids to activities alone but you also want to give her a taste of what it's going to be like should she decide to keep the family separated.

She should miss those family fun times.

So you can't afford a bike. Could you go to a motorcycle show?

Sorry I've got to run. I'll try to be back.

Saw ww on Saturday,
WW came over picked up S12 and his best friend and three of there girl friends from school to take them all to S12 and neighbors football game.
S5 went to neighbors house and D7 went with me to football game.
Before we left I talked to ww about neighborhood things (gossip) mostly and then we were just standing there talking and I said "well its good to see you" and gave her a friendly hug.
She hugged back.
Just a "nice" gesture by me.

LOOK........ IM PLAN AING...isn't this fun!!!

ww wanted to follow me because she didn't know how to get there.
Parked at the ball field and waited for ww to get her chair and blanket from the van.
I got my chair and a small cooler and then picked up ww's chair and carried it all to where we were sitting.
WW sat on a blanket and read the newspaper. I played with D7 and talked to friends and neighbors.

Note all of the parents at these games are people we have known for years. Coaches of S12's baseball team, football teams, neighbors, people we traveled all over the place with for the past 4 years. WW didn't hardly talk to any of these people. I still talk to all of them.
WW had a few phone calls during this time and I let her have her space. Mil, coworker etc. and probably Frank a time or two.
I never asked her anything and was always nice the whole time.
I even asked if she would like a hot dog and a pop as I was getting one for D7.
She actually said yes...."are you buying?"
I said "of course, I'd love to buy you lunch".LOL

I mostly walked around and watched the game and stopped and talked to other parents, kids etc. and also talked to WW off and on.

Later I shared a candy bar and some Nacho's with her.

It went really well and when I would walk away for a while I noticed more than a few times she was looking around for me........I think.

Oh well, it was fun and we spent most of the day together.
11:00 am till about 4:30 p.m.
She had to come back to my house to pick up S5 because she was keeping them overnight.
She came in and used the bathroom, talked about having trouble "going" lately. (tmi)?
She stayed and we went through some clothes that we have for S12 (stuff we got from other people that we have been saving untill he grows into them).
I told her we could do this another time if she wanted to get home right away.
She said "yeah I'm kind of worn out and would like to get home and chill out".
I said thats fine.
She ended up looking at more and more clothes stuff and then went upstairs to kids room to go over what they had for clothes up there.
I had told her earlier that I didn't have much to choose from for D7 that morning.
She said we should take a look at what we have and said "D7 needs clothes real bad, she is outgrowing her stuff real quick. (growth spurt) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Note...I did have kids all dressed up and ready to go as well as a spotless house when she got there. Had D7's hair in "pigtails"...I'm getting better at that and the neighbor girl/babysitter had told me she will show me how to braid D7's hair real soon.

Helped ww carry things to her van and said goodbye to kids and then ww stopped and talked to me a little about someone that was interested in the van.
I didn't ask any questions and she volunteered more info and I just said "sounds great", "good luck with that".
Then she goes on to tell me about a small tear in the drivers seat and I walked around to her side and she got out and showed it to me.
She also noted that she got some fix-a flat and it did fix the tire.
I said "I already know you can do anything, you always have".

I said "I guess its starting to wear out and its probably a good thing were selling it now.
Need tires, ac recharged, etc. but still looks awsome.....everbody keeps telling her to keep it cause its really sharp.
Cant afford the gas....she said *laughing* "I'll keep it if you pay for the gas". One of the nieghbors was standing there and I jokingly said "see how she treats me?"
They both laughed a lot and I said. "you need to go now cause the kids are getting restless."
I said have a good night and she said you too.

Oh yeah on the way out from the football game I carried everything to her van. Both our chairs, her blanket and cooler.

About an hour later S5 called to see what I was doing and told him we were having b-b-q chicken.
I talked to him for quite a while and then hung up.
He called again about 8:30 to say goodnight.

Just trying to plan A whenever I can.

Enough for now, thanks for reading.
JS

Anybody have any thoughts on my last post?
Did I do alright or am I being to nice?

Any more suggestions?

JS

JS,

I think you did just fine.

Suggestions?

Yeh, keep up the good work. Polite but yet a little distanced. Good job.

I have not been calling ww at all lately.
She called yesterday afternoon to see if I could pick the kids up after school.
She called again at 5:00 to see what was going on. She was still at work and wanted to make sure I got the kids.
She asked if I wanted the kids or did they want to come to her house. I told her I would not be home Wednesday night and I could take them but that they wanted to be at her house.
She said then they can stay with you tonight and then I will take them Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. *laughing*
I said "hey, I want them too. (joking)
She likes having the kids there a lot but when there not there then Frank spends the night.
This still hurts me inside.

WW said "I was suppose to take D7 shopping for a new blouse to go with her skirt so she can wear it to school tomorrow.
I live right by the mall so I said I will drop off S12 at football practise and meet you at the mall.
We ended up talking for a while about work and stuff as she was driving there.
Just small talk mostly with me not asking any questions.
We met up and shopped for a little while and then I took the kids home.
She called before kids went to bed and I had to answer the phone.
She asked if clothes fit D7 and we talked and laughed about D7 getting so much taller and needing a bigger size this year.
I was helping D7 with her homework and WW asked "what did she have for homework?"

Feeling kind of lonely today.

WW called me at work this morning to ask a school related question.
On my way to work I go past her street and can see down the street to her house. Franks truck was in the driveway.

Man that still hurts so bad.
I was upbeat and happy when she called so she wouldn't think I looked.
I want to bash her so bad sometimes and lecture her but I remain still.
I hope this works.
I want my family back.
I wonder what she's thinking. Do you think she will ever want to come back?
I mean, she hasn't been in love with me for a while now.
I guess I should just move on and hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Man this sucks.

I still dont have info on Frank yet and still have not exposed anything to her mother.
I'm not sure exposing anything to her mother is a good idea at this point because I can't prove anything.
I'd just look desperate. Maybe her mother will call me someday and I can tell her if she askes.
How would I bring that up to her?
How would I start that conversation if it comes up?
I do trade e-mails with her grandma and mom, jokes and pictures and stuff but no personal stuff yet.
Her mom sent an e-mail to me after I sent her the last photos and she said "keep the photos coming because I dont get to see the kids that much, wow, there really growing".

I no longer send any e-mails to ww.
I used to forward her 3 or 4 jokes everyday but now nothing.
I dont call her anymore either.

Trying to hang on here and not look interested.

Any more thoughts please?

Sounds just like my sitch. about 7 months ago!! Keep going, but don't press...and if the opportunity arises, try and do a few more things with her....it should really start to pi ss Frank off!!!! Then let the LB's begin!!
MWIL

Anybody have any examples of letters they sent to there ww's mother or father.
I would like to expose this when I get more concrete info but don't know what to say.
WW is treating this like she met om after she left me but I don't believe this and have no way of really knowing for sure except she was seen with this om before she moved out.
Just a thought.

Thanks

Why do you need more concrete info? What is this info you need? He's got a criminal past as far as you know. That needn't be defined in your exposure of her A with this Frank guy. You can explain you understand he has a record but that it is based on heresay at this time.

What's most important according to MB is to expose the A. Now maybe exposure isn't appropriate for you at this time. I suggest you pose that question to the experienced posters here on GQII.

So before you ask for exposure letters get some feedback on whether or not exposure is the right course of action. You exposing her right now, knowing she feels controlled by you, may come off looking like you are trying to control/manipulate the situation.

It would be different if you were having personal conversations with these people because then you would probably have to be covering up the fact she's sleeping with OM if you were wanting to avoid exposure. But you aren't having these convos with them at this time. So any exposure you are going to do will make it obvious you are trying to rally the troops to help you in your sich. Which may still be a good thing but maybe it should come from someone else besides you. I don't know so I'll defer to GQII.

Personally I get the impression that you are letting her have her cake and eat it too.

An E-Mail I got from mil yesterday.
I havent replied yet.

What would be a good reply to this to tell her about om.
I'm thinking that ww hasn't told mil about frank yet except maybe to say that she has a friend or something like that.
Not sure.
Do I even want to expose at this time?

Any ideas?
I wanted to at least mention maybe the hurt I have or maybe I just want to say "I'm doing fine".
I dont know.
Any suggestions?
JS