Morning, I was reading on my new AD this morning! I'm only a week into it but starting Sat. I'm quick to snap at someone..Wh asked me last night if I was going take a shower and I snapped my head around to him in a flash. HE said I was just asking.

I'm hoping to get adjusted to this one soon...I mean I'm not in a bad mood at all and someone will say something to me and I'll come unglued! I'm yelling at the kids, we had arough morning.I'm going to watch it a little longer. Still not sleeping any better, so that could be a part of it. I could close my eyes right now and be got!

This mood change is really bothering me right now. I'm trying to hold out, new med, I'm sure it will take a few weeks to adjust. It just bothers me so much, I don't like that person who B***thing about this or that. I guess I have to work that much harder to be on an even keel.

I was talking with my boss, with all of the back surgies that he's had; he's had to take a lot of different ADs. He said not to worry that it's just probably the switch from one to the other. When I talk to my mom, she's a nurse now, I asked her to look up this med. Anyway, she said that this one works completely different then the other one.

Aside for that I did have a good weekend, I got up mad Sat. but I worked that you in a few hours and was able to enjoy the day. Same thing yesterday, but I took a short nap and woke up in a better mood.

I was going to drive out of the driveway by myself (driveways maybe 100ft long). Well, LOL, WH couldn't handle it and had to come with me. It's so great he's so concerned about me (ow, I had negative thought in there). I feel so different since Sat., I've thought about it, I've gave it up to God, and I've asked WH to bare with me.

I'll just try to be patient, no sense in getting works up, I'll just have to be more aware and conscious of my moods and behavior for the next few weeks. If I hadn't improved by the end of this script, I'm talking to the Dr.

ANyway, lost my train of thougth, WH took his bike and I took mine and drove onto the busy HWY! It was so funny! My driveways got an incline not much, maybe a 2 foot incline, but it got me. I pulled out, and straight onto the other side of the road, coming back...I got stuck and couldn't go up it. Really had to give it some gas! The GN was watching out the blinds and she said I scaed the [email]cr@p[/email] out of her and she couldn't watch. LOL It was really funny!

I said very loudly and with joy, "I made it, it might not have been pretty, but I did it!" I had a big smile from ear to ear! WH was a nervous wreck! LOL

It helped put reality into place...not ready for the open road...I do need some more practice.

Okay, I'm open for any thoughts...OH, HL...guess what I watched last night? The roasting of Bill SHatner on comedy central...did you watch? I laughed and laughed, no, not because I was thinking about you!(oops!) It was really good!!

Must.....get.....back......to......work!

Have.....a......good......day!


I love you guys! LOL

Hi, Rin.

Did you figure out why you woke up angry yesterday? What did you do about it?

I'm glad the day ended up much better. How do you feel this morning?

-Ari.

It's was my expectations, and I just had to let it go. I had no right to expect anything, especially from WH. MY fault, two hours and I was over it! And then, I'm really not one of those people you want to wake up, LOL, not a morning person! I'm the proverbial night owl! It's my best time of the day!

I'm really tired, still waking up in the middle of the night, and I was agitated this morning. It's been a few months since ...actually since April...that I've woken up like that...day wasn't as bad as yesterday...I think it's because I just couldn't (was trying hard to)wake up.

I need to tie myself to the bed, so I don't get out. I think it's just habit now, and it's a matter of breaking it. I can tell a difference on this med verses the other.

I called WH and told him that I woke up mad again this morning, was yelling at the kids to hurry...told him I read..."experience anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, difficulty sleeping, irritability, hostility, impulsive feelings, severe restlessness,"...asked that he please be patient...WH joked and said he would just have to get his paddle to keep me in line...

So, we're both going to watch ME closely! Like now that I'm awake, I'm in a good mood...

Rin,

What is WH? You use a lot of abreviations and I am wondering if it is the one I am aware of?

Is that a typo instead of DH?

Anyway I wanted to check in on you. Sometimes what you guys write is to deep for a guy. LOL.

I am haning in there. LOL.

Oh, I wanted to mention, WH and I drove to baton rouge on his bike, visited some friends, and on the way back it had rained. Well, the roads and interstate was so wet, I just started laughing and laughing, WH didn't hear my off the roar of the pipes, but when we stopped, I was still laughing. I was wearing a black silk speg. strap shirt and the back tire soak my back. Althought the shirt wasn't white, it would have been great for a wet t-shirt contest. WH and I laughed so much! Making good memories...

And yesterday, a friend stopped by the house, we have been storing his bike b/c he's leaving his W (I'm not putting my 2 cents in and don't know what's going on). Anyway, we were going to ride with him down to his D's house and fry some fish. OMG, we stoppped at the store and the sky fell out! LOL We waited a good 45 minutes, and it slowed down to a drizzle. We get to the end of the parking lot and there goes the down pour! Of course, I had to die laughing! We were so wet (AGAIN) by the time we got home, which was only about a mile!

WH pulls into the driveway under the carport and we die laughing! He was soaking from knee down and wet in other areas. Me, on the other hand, was soaked from mid-calf down, and my back was soaked, but the funny part was there was a nice little dry area in the middle of my buttocks and the rest of it was wet!

Oh, and just to update, I haven't asked about the C with OW and WH hasn't mentioned it. I'm sure that helped with the pleasant weekend! LOL

The first in a while!

I may be speaking to deaf ears...WH's! He seemed to be in a good mood at lunch, so I asked if he could tell me about the 8 calls to OW the other day! Of course, I got "Why's it so important?" He said I told you that I was hung up on and that it took several calls for me to say what I had to say.

I spoke very calmly simply stating that he knew everything and (I'm not doing word for word so please, no 2X4's) I was glad he was determning what was important to me. I mentioned that my top EN was O&H and the second was Affection. I don't feel that I pushed or forced in order to hear what I need.

I can feel it one one I'm going to say, like you did HL, "You don't trust me with the truth and I don't trust you to tell me the truth."

I was shaking so badly afterward and wanted to cry but I didn't. He did ask me if I was going to eat and my voice was so shaky, I said I think I ate enough in the middle of the night. I told him about the nightmare I had of him. Then, WH chose to spend the rest of his lunch hour, after he finished eating, outside. I went lay down to steal a few minutes of sleep and he walked in and said that he was leaving and he'd see me when he got off.

Thank God, I did get a few minutes of sleep and feel better now (maybe five, but that was good).

So, I've asked for details of the A and I've asked for details of the NC call. He mentioned in a brief conversation right before we went to sleep that he's stubborn. I said something like well only yoy can change that, and he replied he can't because it's a part of him. We went to sleep after that statement.

I don't know what to make of all of this.

Not deaf ears here.

I asked you a question before and I don't understand what is going on.

What is WH? I know it sounds stupid but I can't figure out what is going on.

Look as far as the stubborn part. MY FWW was stubborn too. Guess why. LOL. Wait you don't need to guess you know why she was so stubborn about telling me everything. LOL.

So what is WH?

Again it is important to know because you are a human being. You are not a person that can forgive everything without knowing the details.

One of the things that has bothered me now is how things would have been different had I known the honest truth.

I might actually be divorced right now. Not because of what she did but because of some of the things she evidently found acceptable after the A. If I would have known the truth way back then and she did some of the things she did we would probably be done.

Boy I can think back on some big fights where me not knowing the truth helped her on her side. LOL.

So because I didn't know she could keep going down roads that the truth would have roadblocked. LOL.

So that is why the truth is important. It will set you free to know what you need to do to recover.

I can tell you now that my list of things I would need has changed dramatically since D Day. Now we can't go back in time to change those things so I guess it worked out well for her.

It would be so nice to walk in an say "okay, I can't move forward with this M because I can't stay with someone who has so much to hid! Let's go ahead and make plans to go our separate ways!" Drive-by!

It's the way I feel and I keep doing the opposite because I can't R talk right now! 2 be honest, i fell like this was the way things were before A, why should they change now? Becuase I am? Not good enough! What's the motivation for him to change? He's getting a sweet deal! I keep telling myself I want this M, I want this M, but I can't stay with someone who's not O&H. Someone I can't lean on and who won't lean on me. Someone I can't tell my inner most thought too!

I'm having nightmares about him having this secret place for sex. Like he's in a club where all the people in the club have different sex things they like. I find out about it and he wants me to join. I stand my ground and say NO! Somehow I end up finding the club and he's their with two woman.

He tries to force me to do what he wants and I stab him! He locks me in this room with other people who won't join in I guess their partners endeavors, where I'm to live. I'm jailed! Why because I won't give into his SF fantasies! I'm jailed! I feel jailed right now!

Well then there you go.

I have to say that I think the most dramatic change that has happened in my M is my attitude.

You see I plan A'd. Didn't work.

I asked for honesty. Didn't work.

I asked for compensation. Didn't work.

Well almost nothing worked. So one day I decided I was done. I didn't care anymore one way or another if this M survived.

I told her. I don't know if it was a power shift or what but you know what that was when she started taking me seriously.

The days that HL just gave without wanting something in return ended.

I have changed as a person. I never tolerated dishonesty before and gave my trust. If you lied to me or are willing to lie to me I don't trust you!!!!!

If you want my trust you have every opportunity to EARN IT. If you chose not to earn it do not ask for it.

My FWW asked me to do something for her last night. In the past I would have said sure. The new HL wanted to think about it. The FWW actually asked me what I had to think about.

I don't know 3 days away on a mini retreat where I have the kids. I think I deserve a chance to think about it. Her old attitude came out when she said IT IS ONLY. Well everything I have done has been minimized like that. Conversation was pretty much over. If she said I understand it will be a lot of you but I would really appreciate it well then maybe. But IT IS JUST ONLY is not cutting it for me anymore.

Now you are changing but all of the changes seem to be working for him. No impetus for change.

My FWW's impetus is that the person that used to do those things isn't anymore.

Finally when I asked when she started talking about the trip with her sponsor she said Tuesday. Then she said you already made up your mind so why should we even discuss it. I am going to bed.

Well guess what I slept well last night. Why because I was open to have a discussion. She was not. She went back to the old you are not my dad thing. I stayed away. She said she doesn't want to be in an M where... Just foder.

Now if she doesn't want an M like that then she has the opportunity to change too.

Finally the changes I am making in myself are effecting her. It wasn't until then that she saw the light.

So let me get this straight.

You have changed.
You let him go out on his bike.
He contacts OW.
He likes your changes.

He is unwilling to change because he is stubborn. HMMMM.

I don't think I would change either.

Told FWW one time you have a sweet deal. Where do I sign up for that?

I really need to calm down. I don't need to feel any more anxiety. I'm already have a hard time with this transition with this medicine. I really need a good crying session...just let it all out...it's been months since I did that.

You need definition and clarity.

You need to define what you need and be clear in your communication to your H about it.

I need......

Look I made a hugh mistake in even trying to start recovery with all of these lingering questions.

I feel like a hugh idiot for doing some of the things I have done or not done. Why I feel like I was being taken advantage of.

You know about my FWW's flirting. I can tell you right now that if I knew everything I know now my reaction would have been different.

I would have asked her not to do it one time. The second time I would have paid the bill and walked out and left her there. When she got home I would have said next time it happens I leave again then go get a lawyer. One of two things would have happened. Either way all the subsequent flirting would not have happened to me.

The fact that I didn't know that is how this whole thing started gave her a bigger grace in my boundries.

She asked why I didn't do it after all the other times. I said the night we went out with your friend if she wasn't there I would have left. She got lucky.

So add that to the A.

What if there is something he is leaving out that would make you change how you interact today. I will tell you the resentment is hard to deal with. You mean I let you..... when you..... God I feel like an idiot.

Heck even her spending after the A is almost repulsive now that I know the truth.

Sometimes the FWS is only remorseful for what you know. They will show you that remorse and then one day you find out that there was so much more they should have been remorseful for. Then you look back and say wow that is the effort I deserved. Not the greatest feeling.

Hi Rin,
I'm kind of jumpin' in here mid stream. Take a breath. It will be fine. Do you have SAA?

I read it when A was at its height and kind of skimmed over the recovery part (didn't think I'd get there) but we seem to be in the same spot. Relax. We/they are still following the script. Dig out the book if you have it and go to the end of chapter 6 and beginning of chapter 7 thats where I am in recovery right now. A is over. But both spouses have a feeling of entitlement.

Its too soon for him to be O &H about the A. It is for me too. I want to move on. I want the details so I can process them and get it over with. But ya know what? If he told me the details I don't know I would believe him. "he must be leaving something out"

BE STILL. BREATHE. I'M RIGHT THERE WITH YA SISTER.

I gotta take my dog to the vet (no problem just shots)

I think your AD transition is taking a toll. Hang in there. I'll be back in a bit.

Thanks, guys! It's a venting day. I was really thinking earlier that it would be so great just to talk to him. Just talk or actually someone else would be fine, but I would feel like i was imposing and getting them in the middle. THat's the reason I really don't talk to anyone else but you guys. Somebody's always got an answer here, and I just want and need a ear and a shoulder!

ChaCha- I do have SAA and I thumbed throught it the other day regarding NC. I will review those sessions. Outside of the conversation I have with WH at lunch, I'm not mentioning anything else. He know what I need and want, no sense in repeating myself! Thank you! What kind do you have? I want a pet but WH won't let. I'd be happy with a mouse or ferret. I really want another ferret!

I'm sure it's the meds, I feel so off balance, not all day just sometimes. I'm really trying hard not to get emotional right now, but that,OMG, is the worse feeling. I feel like I'm losing my mind. So, I'm using my head as much as I can.

HL-
"You need definition and clarity.

You need to define what you need and be clear in your communication to your H about it."

You are very right, I started working on a list of what I needed to recover. I guess I just need a list of what I need in general!

I'm much calmer than I was! I found something to keep me busy. I think I might do a little Arts & craft stuff tonight, instead of reading or watching TV. A change from the norm will do me some good, I think!

I will make some time to have a good cry, so I can dust myself off and get back in the fight! Of course, without WH around! I would rather him not be around anyway!

(((((((((You guys/gals are so wonderful!)))))))

Rin,

Good!!

See the thing is that I think most FWS want to sweep as much under the rug as possible and most FBS want as much open and honest conversation as possible.

For me it was important because I want/wanted my FWW to feel as though we could have no secrets anymore. It would help alleviate some of the doubts I have about her and us. I have always tried to live within this M thinking to myself would I act this way if my FWW was here. If the answer was no then I didn't do it.

In a sense I wanted to hear so maybe next time a tough decesion comes along she knows when she makes it I will know. Why becuase she will tell me. I always felt like if I swept it under the rug like she wanted what precedent would that set. I can do what I want when I want and how I want then dictate what I will tell HL about it. Not a good precedent.

Second again was for recovery.

The first step though is to figure out what you want and don't want. Clear, and defined.

See I believe in plan A etc but if you are with a taker it could be dangerous.

Now my FWW has called a few times today. I am not happy after 3 years of hearing her say "you shouldn't start conversations that late at night. Kinda hypocritical to do that to me last night. I am back to being a little distant again.

She has called to tell me she needs my help with some paperwork. I almost feel like not helping after being told that the conversation is over because she wants to go to bed.

See I have come to the point if my list of things isn't being attended to I must do it myself. If I have to do it myself that leaves me less time to work on the things on her list. This does not make her happy.

I find I am happier when I now pay attention to my list. I am even happier if she is fulfilling the things on my list that make me happy. If she won't I will but again that leaves less for her.

So make your list and give it to H if he embraces it you will be happy. If he doesn't make sure you do those things for yourself.

Heck I just realized today I am not a kid. My back is killing me from playing yesterday but guess what My list is getting more and more attention.

Hi, all! i just wanted to give you all an update. WH and I haven't talked much after he got home. That's cool. It was a me night anyway...when I got home I broke out the router and started a project I've been meaning to do for months.

After Hurricane Rita hit and my dad lose his house, he moved north about an hour to what he calls his camp. It's a trailer...1950's or 1960's model. Anyway, he bought a sawmill and asked me to route him out a sign to hang above his sawmill with his nickname. (He was cutting up all the timer that he could get that fell from the storm.)

Well, all the N's loved it so I said that I would make them both one. So, I got my wood out did GN, HN, mine, and my boss wanted one. Did a little sanding and tomorrow I will work one them some more. I have some more sanding and then I'm doing a walnut stain on the inside of the letters and a natural across the top. The walnut looks almost black and makes the letters pop!

Yes, I'm doing HN's, but I said I would make it before things blew up. I said that I would and I like to live up to my word. I called HN's H over and asked if there was anything different he wanted on it. He was very pleased. I asked the same of the GN!

Of course, I had to take a bath from all the sawdust, so, I ran a bath and lite some candles. Well, while I was rinsing the tub, I found my cousin's blonde hair, just one strand. Sat. she babysat with her boyfriend and they cut the grass, well, she used the tub.

I had a flash of WH and I sitting in the truck not once but twice this happened. i found a blonde hair, I don't remember if it was on him or in the truck, regardless, he said I haven't been around anyone with blonde hair. Can we guess who's hair that was, yes, OW had blonde hair.

I closed the door and sank to the floor. The tears just came, so I crawled into the tub, flooded with emotions, buried my head in my towel and balled my eyes out. It felt horrible at the time but I really do feel better now. It was also a wake up call...I was still wishing this was a dream and that memory of one strand of blonde hair ade it real for me! That's the proof I've been looking for...not just his word, the only thing I had besides the phone calls and TMs. That was the factual truth! I hadn't remember that and wouldn't have, one strand!

So, I've brushed my shoulders off and I'm good to go...LOL...not sure how long but good to go!

ChaCha- I did read a little of chapter six...thanks, I'll finish later!

HL-I have a taker! Always been a taker...I was the doll on the shelf! When you speak of this list, do you mean EN, what else did you include? I'm wondering because you said to do those things for myself...It's a duhduduh night, I guess!

I'm good...my afternoon and night has been good...even with the trigger...just a part of the grieving process? New reality...

Good morning everyone! Well, I had a marked improvement today...didn't wake up angry but sad...

CHaCha- I wanted to thank you really...you suggesting me reading those chapters really has let me see where Wh and I are.

I'm just trying to stay busy and not think, just be in my head...makes sense?

I don't want to freak out like yesterday!

There might be two lists.

One list of what you need EN's from the H to make you happy in the M. This of course is very important because most people would agree that the better your M the happier you will be. This list is the primary list for your H to help you wit.

The second list is what makes you happy. IE woodworking. LOL. Like for me believe it or not and I feel like a big kid for saying it but I like playing with the kids. Last night was another game of wiffle ball and then some touch football. My team won both. LOL.

When I look at my EN list and my FWW is not putting as much effort into it then I go to my secondary list. Either way I am getting or doing things that make me happy.

This makes me less dependant on my FWW for happiness. Either way I will be happy. So instead of dwelling on what I am not getting that makes me happy I focus on doing things that make me happy.

The staying busy part is right no the nose. I used to golf. Once a week I would go down to the driving range and hit some balls. I found that doing that was not very good after the A. It just gave me time to think about the A. I used to golf by myself as well. Again same thing. Haven't really golfed that much since the A.

The other reason is it costs money to golf and quite frankly we didn't have it. Me being competitive I couldn't enjoy golfing as much because without the practice my game went backwards.

So now I have things I like to do that make me happy. Playing with the kids. Helps me with my competitive nature. I play poker on line. I like Sudoku puzzles as well.

The other thing this list will help you do is be more selfish. I know this sounds bad but it is ok to be selfish sometimes.

In order to break a giver/taker dynamic someone has to change. The taker is in a better position so why would they want to change. The giver has to be more self focused.

I can tell you my FWW doesn't really like the new dynamic that much. But she can change that. She can meet me half way. We both give and take equally. That's all I want. So if she is not willing to give what she takes then I will only give what I can take.

All other activities will focus on me and my happiness.

I'm glad today is a better day for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It was a real eye opener for me to go back and read that stuff. It feels like I've been doing this so long...and yet we are still at the very beginning stages of recovery. A place I am wasn't sure we would ever actually get to. It still blows my mind how all this is so scripted. Last Wed. when FWH & I finally talked about how each of us felt like we were the ones who were putting the effort out and the other was not. EXACTLY how it is explained on page 84...

..."They both see the other as having been very selfish and they see themselves as having gone the extra mile, with nothing to show for it."

I like HL lists...it makes sense...FWS is not ready or able to fullfill BS needs yet. And if we do without we end up feeling resentful.

I have to remember I've been reading and learning all this. FWH hasn't. He is going throw this blind. He knows a little about MB and read a little of SAA. but he is not a believer. I am trying to guide him...without pushing... its hard.

I think it was a big step for your FWH to tell you about the phone contact....to establish NC. He doesn't realize the importance of the NC....yet he did it. Thats a good thing!

In SAA it talks about the 4 rules of protection and for the time being deal with issues that are present and future. This is hard. I want details of the A. Not the how did you touch her kind of things. But how did you become a person who would have an A? When did it start? How did it start? What did you have w/ her you didn't have w/ me? Where did you go? Why and when did you stop? How can we prevent it from happening again? I don't think I'll get those answers for a while and it won't be easy. By the time he feels safe enough to answer he'll also be afraid of losing me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

OT: The dog I took to the vet is a mix border collie/ lab, she has diabetes, her sister died 2 yrs ago from diabetic complications. We do insulin 2x/day. She is my constant companion when I'm home and the one who fills my need for affection. (The kids don't like too much mushy stuff) She is at the groomer today.
We also have 2 cats, 2 birds, a chinese water dragon and wild bunnies that come to visit every evening.

I think that being selfish is healthy at a certain level...perhaps when we start being thoughtless of others is where the unhealthy aspect come into play?

Thanks for the clarification...I know my ENs and I guess my other list would contain things like:

1)Pick up after yourself so that it free up my time to do the things that I enjoy doing, like reading, woodworking, painting, etc.

2)Cook a meal on the weekends when WH is off.

3)Take more charge of the kids, bring them places, disciple them, this is so I can have some time to myself and I'm not the one always doing it.

4)Complete disclosure of schedule...bring co-workers home from work, weekend activities, etc. (would this be a recovery thing?)

Am I headed in the right direction? I know I would need to word it differently so it doesn't come out like I'm saying he doesn't do any of this.

Now I know why, Longhorn, and the rest of you where telling me this in the beginning.

After re-reading chapter six in SAA things are more real for me? I can see where WH and I are at.

He said something about getting a camper last night...all I could say was that's to far ahead for me to think about...

LB's definitily in the red! I think I'll just deal with me and not worry about him at all. Let him do his thing...casual conversation...and I'll try to do nice things for him.
(that's a big try!)

At least I know where my Plan A was going wrong...now I can improve it. I know what's meant my improving yourself...no R talk...I'm just going to do for me...and be nice! I guess that would be detachment huh? What I was trying to do but felt more like a withdrawal but no really...makes sense?