Rin,

That is why I said each M is different. I didn't want you to ask him the hypothetical question. That question was for you to answer.

I know in my M my FWW doesn't/didn't like reminders of my ex girlfriends. I don't have a letter, card, note or gift that any former girlfriend gave me.

I had a Gucci link chain and bracelet from one and it disappeared. LOL The rest of the jewlery that was in the box is still there. Go figure. So in my M keeping things from past relationships is not ok.

I felt like I was just asking her to do for me what I had done for her. In a sense. If he wouldn't have a problem with it then you can kinda see his side. It isn't a big deal to him so why should it be to you. Not saying he is right but at least he is not being hypocritical.

Let the HN bug the heck out of your H. You know sometimes people can't see how messed up someone is until you point it out to them.

Our neighbor was and finally everytime she pulled something I pointed it out. Pretty soon the FWW started getting tired of something she wasn't even really aware of.

Good job on your part. I think he will be done with that relationship soon.

Good luck.

Okay I understand better what you are talking about using past relationship. I never made him get rid of any of that stuff. He's got pics of old GFs and I have the same. It's part of our past. Why deny that?

However, I have asked him to get rid of stuff from GF/OW that was behind my back. Like the OW when we were dating, right before M and right after. That's the letter that I handed him last night with the pic, that I've been holding for 8 years. Not sure why I was holding it, perhaps because he refused to admit that it was an EA. I don't know, but it helped make my point last night. I mean he wouldn't even touch the letter just the pic of our OS and the dog. I was PG at the time that was going on.

I just hope that he learns a few things from this A. We have lost friends, HN as a result, everyone knows, and all the pieces we have had to deal with. His OS crying and saying "How could Daddy do that?"

It really hit me hard last night when it said he wanted to keep the card to remind him of a mistake. I was really shocked and HAD to repeat to make sure I understood him correctly. WOW!

Rin,

You should really process that info. It smells very fishy to me.

I want to keep a lovey dovey card to remind me not to do it again.

How about a flashback to you, lying down, crying, probably in the fetal position. How about the look when you confronted him about his A. There are a lot of things he can use to remember his mistake. I don't understand how a hidden valentine card does that.

Maybe I am wrong. Again it is between you and he. I just know I wouldn't want that in my home.

If he needs a reminder why not get him a nice card that talks about the journey and how hard it has been and you are happy you are still together. That would be a good reminder.

I don't know. I just don't understand the card.

I don't have any advice ... I think I'd be upset about the card, too, and would have tossed it. I'm glad you stated how you felt about it. Maybe you just keep teling him. Make it clearer what the line is between what's ok (cards and pics from ex gf's, etc.) and what slices at your heart (anything from this woman in particular).

And then let it go ... you shared your feelings, he chooses his actions, and his actions are his, about him, and not about you. (I'm putting a whoooole lot of question marks here because I could be very, very wrong on this....???????????????????????????????????????????????).

Is this a boundary? Then what are your enforcements? Or is it something that you can discuss, POJA, and find a compromise on?


Ugh ... not much for advice. I'm reading, though! And thinking of you.

-AmI.

Rin,

"I cannot protect myself from evidence of your affair. Your choice to keep the card and the keychain as a reminder to you to NOT commit adultery leaves me vulnerable. I know you chose to have an affair. I want to believe you will not choose to have another one. I cannot see any material evidence aiding you in that decision."

AmI is right...he will throw it away someday. Your boundary is how long to wait, what enforcements you're willing to take and how extreme in balance with his refusal to do so.

Very tough call, Rin. HL is dead on about everything...including you purchasing a reconcilation or healing card and asking him to view that as his reminder. From his wife. From the one he betrayed and abused.

There's no tit for tat in adultery. Takes a long time to get this, understand this...you went immediately to your affair, what you did...which your BH did not require.

You aren't even; there is no count to define betrayal.

It is massive, pervasive and permanent. It happened.

Every day without a trigger rocks...hitting the trigger after days without a trigger hurts...your PTSD kicks in...and look how well you acted!!! Different, direct and you felt terrible fear, anxiety, anger, pain and confusion...and look at yourself...you acted to your code, anyway.

Did you share with him, in descriptive terms, what your feelings feel like inside you? I said, "I feel sucker punched in my stomach" to my FWH about something. He remembers that description to this day. Which is big to me, because I was a rampant exaggerater...not much got through. That did. It was a simple O&H statement.

You're not alone, Rin...you know we're walking or have walked these same rungs...you will not keep experiencing what you are now...I promise.

As for HN...I think you have been living a good plan. Now your babysitter knows what she's dealing with and will stay away, also. Include her in your boundary...your chlidren are not allowed over there and so she won't be vulnerable to HN. By not allowing contact, you are enforcing your boundaries...it is a reasonable enforcement given HN's choice of actions.

So well said...she is not a friend of your M.

You didn't know before what kind of friend that was...you do now. That's the difference. There's your permission.

And we share the same anniversary day...along with what, 10 million others?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Glad you're back and that your time together rocked. This is the way recovery is...a bit up, a crash down, a bit more up...a little down. Gets better. Takes time.

Tell me, did you keep that unsent card for 8 years to remind you to resent?

Hmmm?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

GOOD MORNING!Thank you for all of your responses.

I have a few things in mind this morning! I read all of your posts last night but i really couldn't thing of a response and I really don't have one. I can say this the H's card was about friends, really not mushy at all. I guess that's why I can live with it a little better, I don't know!

Being that I was at a lose for words, I asked H if I could share LA's post with him. H had asked previously what you all had to say on the HN sitch so I shared that with him. Anyway, H said yeah, I guess so and I handed the computer to him. I wasn't expecting a response nor did I want one. H read it and I left it at that. I'm not sure if he scrolled up or not.

The major thing this morning is that H is on suspension until forth notice from his job. Yesterday he had an appt. for his motorcycle that's been scheduled for almost two weeks. He called his boss yesterday morning to remind him that he would be in late, as a matter of fact, I had to find him a ride back to the house, because the repair shop didn't offer that service.

Well, yesterday afternoon he had to leave early to pick it up and the guy over his boss got really upset and H ended up leaving to go pick the bike up. When he went in this morning, some more bosses were there and called H in for a meeting. Now the guy over H's boss is not liked by many around the company and once you get on his bad side, watch out. I'll call him SL.

SL said that H has been coming in late all the time, which H refuses and has his calendar from work that he bought home with all the days from the beginning of the year of when his been late or missed a day, or had a vacation day marked in it. Anyway, some of them are aware of the sitch at home and in the meeting it was said that H is letting his personal life affect his job. See H was getting off on Tues and Thurs b/c we were going to go to MC but he backed out before the 1st meeting but still was getting off at 5pm on those days.

After about a month, H stopped getting off early on Tues. and has still been getting off early on Thurs. H hasn't told anyone that we're not going to MC, but I did tell one of his co-workers when I re-exposed. So, needless to say, this is coming back to bite H. I know that the co-worker hasn't said anything about H and I not going to MC to anyone, he's more like a uncle, very well respected and the same is returned. Point being that H's A is still having consequences well after the fact.

SL and the other bosses in the meeting, if I understand right, are complaining about being behind schedule and the time that H has been taking. Now, I will clear this up before you ask, H was spending those extra two hours with me and the boys on Thurs. I guess we will see what happens.

I am a little extremely concerned about the financial aspect but there's nothing I can do about that right now and H is aware of the sitch. Besides H won't sit around and let things go downhill while waiting for them to call him back. The other thing that's on his side is that they need him, I mean really need him. There's only one other person that is doing the same job that he does. No one else knows how to do it and it's not something you can train someone else to do in a few days.

To answer your questions, no, I didn't share with him in desciptive words my feelings regarding the card that's why I shared the post. I didn't want to revisit the topic at the time. I feel like he knows how it affected me and LA's post helped explain things a little better because it wasn't coming from me.

Surprisingly, I'm pretty calm this morning. I did tell H before I left that not to stress and reminded him that God does not close one door without opening another. He said that he was fine. I said good because I was going to check his blood pressure if I didn't hear that from him. I told him I would back him up no matter what his decision is about his job.

He also got a call from his boss asking him not to do anything rash and that his boss would call him again this afternoon. The admired and respected co-worker will be calling H at break and another co-worker who was in the meeting also asked him not to do anything rash.

So, please pray for me and my family, we NEED it right now.

I could really use some reassure today. You know fear of the unknown can really get to you!

I guess some words of encouragement. Maybe even some suggestions, or the what I can control and not thing, I don't know...I'm feeling a little lose...even thought I know I'm right here...perhaps overwhelmed is better...

Go figure...a great weekend...a lousy return and now this...

(((((Rin)))))

Sorry to hear about your Hubbies job. Your family will be in my prayers.

I have no words of wisdom. But I agree with you God will open another door.

Keep your chin up.

Thank you SOOOO Much! I greatly appreciate your thoughts and Prayers, it really means a lot to me! The last four months have been very difficult.

Thank you once again! I hope that you are doing well!

I was wondering if he sees this in relation to the consequences of his actions. I guess the only way to find that out would be to ask him.

I called to check to see if respected co-worker called. H said he did and said that he would be fine for me not to worry about him. He was going ride his bike to clear his head. It's really not him I'm worried about it's US!

H just left my office. He said that he was going home and taking a nap. Thing is before he left he promised to behave!

I did express my concern saying that I wasn't worried about him that I was worried about us. He said that we would be fine. H promised respected co-worker that he wouldn't do anything in regards to finding another job until Monday.

H said that his may be his opportunity to get out of the oilfield. He's mentioned it several times in the past. It the long hours, stress, and wear and tear on the body.

I really can't believe he said he would behave! I have and I guess, yeah, do worry about him on his "days off." I'll just take that as a little reassurance.

Hey, Rin.

I'm a little self-obsessed right now ... don't have much to say ...

But I am reading and thinking of you. Just don't know what advice to offer.

Hang in there.

-AmI.

Thanks AmI! I will be with you! Thoughts and prayers, sweetie! Thoughts and prayers!

You just take care! I'll need your shoulder another day, I'm sure!

Well, H was home asleep. I didn't want to wake him before he left he said that he was going to go to sleep because you can't think when you sleep. I know how tired he's been working the hours that he has. I think that's a good idea for him to get some rest. I think he'll be able to think more clearly when he wakes up.

I wish I could take a nap to clear my head. LOL

So, now I'm thinking of creative ways to earn a little extra income. LOL I hate falling behind and this is a scary sitch not knowing when he'll be able to return to work.

Edited to say: I did leave him a note saying I missed him and loved him, and that I look forward to seeing him this afternoon.

You know I'm still Plan Aing!

Anybody want to see a bald headed Rin, because I really feel like pulling it all out today. I mean what else can go wrong that hasn't this year. I said that this year was going to be challenge from the beginning of the new year...

Guess I proved myself right?

I'm really having a rough day! Slow day at work, very little support today, trying to help others but feeling down, lonely and just yucky like Mar said she was.

I don't know! I think this is rougher than a trigger day in some way.

Hang in there. I feel the same way.

I am really busy trying to put together a presentation but the network is not being very cooperative.

Thanks, I guess you missed the post about H being suspended from his job until further notice. It's really a rough one. I'm really depressed.

H just came to my office to let me know that OS's teacher called and for me not to say anything to OS when I picked him up today. Apparently, OS threaten a little boy, saying he was going to bring his pocket knife to school and stab him! OMG!

What else? This is NOT in his nature and his daddy wants to handle it! OS picked a bad day to pull a stunt!

Maybe we are coming up on a full moon. You are having to many strange things happen to you.

Do you meditate? You should give it a try go some place quite clear your mind (your thinking yeh right) and take deep breaths. Last night at my bible study my Pastor had us do this it really help I got thru the night without thinking about WH. God has something to say to you stop and listen.

Marflow- I will do/try that. If for any reason other then to ask God to keep my son alive today! Save him from his father! H just had a talk with him last night about his grades. H said that he better walk a thin line. I was going to start OS on book reports tonight.

H is really not happy. OS is eight for Christ's sake! Just made eight in June and he's at a new school this year.

Dear Lord, please help me find the answers I need to make it through this rollercoaster rider. I understand that you do not gave a person more than they can handle and I'm doing the best that I can with what I have. Please grant me the patience and strenght to endure the times. Thank you! Amen!

What now? What else? HN comes over, a phone call about something else, what?