Rin I think your a saint for putting up with HN if that was me I would have kick her Butt by now.

Let me tell you a little story about my YS. For his 10th b-day we bought him a knife it was beautiful. It came in a box he was told not to play with it so I put it up. He found it and decided to take it to school with him to show it to his friends. The teacher seen it I was called I got to the school the police were there. And he got taking to juvie. Nothing happened to him they just scared him but he won't ever do that again.

So maybe your H can scare him bad enough that he won't step over that line.

Rin,

Here is an exercise for you. It will help you deal with today, tomorrow and the future.

I got this exercise from my doctor. I had acid reflux as a result of my stress.

Every time something is getting you down and worried think to yourself "is this going to matter in six months?" If the answer is no then give it the attention it deserves and let it go. If the answer is yes stop worrying and do something about it.

You cannot make everything a worry and you cannot just sit back and worry over things you should worry about.

Pick one any one and get rid of it. Then move on.

The kid thing is serious. If he went to my son's school he would be suspended for sure and possibly expelled. They don't take that lightly anymore.

But this could be a good learning experiance for him. One that possible could shape the rest of his life. Make the best of it. Look at the positive he just said it.

I am telling you now Rin since I have separated from the old neighbors life has been great. For what it is worth that might be the first worry I address.

You are spending way to much energy on that.

DH I am done and tired of the drama HN add's to our life. We have enough things on our plate already we do not need that grief as well. I am asking you to please help me and stop associating with her. Because she is a crazy, vindictive, mean, letch of a person with no sense of courtesy. OK maybe not that last part but think that while you are saying it and you will have a smile on your face. IF he says yes just let him know you appreciate it and you TRUST him to do it. If he says no then explain you may not want to be around him after he does because it upsets you.

good luck.

BTW don't kill your kid. LOL. I would severely punish him so he understands consequences.

Hiya, Rin...

Consequence of his affair...or his continued wayward state of mind? Have to ask...he got that Tues/Thurs schedule for MC...great of the company (supportive) to change up like that...supports the family aspect of the human they employ...

and your WH lied to them...(quote Mary Tyler Moore from "Ordinary People")..."You lied every time you came through that door at 6:30!"

He lied every Tues and Thurs he left work at 5pm...because he did not do what he said he was going to do.

No one likes to be lied to...companies are people...lying to people isn't good...it is what wayward people do...

My question would be...if you want truth, to live in it, know your own and others'...why did you participate in that lie? Because you were benefitting, your kids were benefitting from it...maybe moreso than MC? Well, you won't know 'cuz you didn't go there...

And I'm not bashing. People lie. All we can control is our choice to participate in the lie or not...and how it insiduously affects our self-trust and trust of our partners; how it affects our greater desire for truth when we self-deceive...remember the Villagers' thread?

Being aware of how much our choice matters, affects through influence and ripples is important...and maybe BS' long to see their influence more allowed or responded to...yet don't see where they are bogarting their own beliefs in their actions?

Just a hmmm thing...like giving you some tough jerky to gnaw on...distract...decide about...

This isn't me not praying for your marriage, your family and his job...my weird way of attempting to help...goal of clarity...reality...because I lived so long not seeing these choices myself.

As to the card being more for friends...this tells me you invest more judgment in the type of gift (keychain/friendly card) than in the symbol. I, more likely, go too much into the symbol than the type...

Maybe you have a healthy balance on it than I do...I know, like you did with AmI's sitch, I spoke to my DH about the card and found out something I didn't know...that OW had given him a book...a small book of verses or poems...he can't remember...but that he threw it out sometime last year.

Know what stunned me? That I'd missed it!! All my OCD snooping and I missed a book? ME? THE BOOKWORM??

And my response to him? "She gave you a book? Yeah, she really knew you, huh? How fast did you get rid of it, like, the next day?"

Well, talk about retaliation...this after we discussed OPs a few nights ago and he said he was surprised I wished something bad would happen to OPs...he assumed I wasn't like that. I said I figured I'd grow past that, but that was my truth now. He said isn't that like praying for it, if you wish it on someone? I said, I have no control over others...that's between them and God, individually. For now, I'm going with that.

Yeah, and I'm praying for you...lifting you up, and your WH, and your children...not HN, OW or anybody else...no sir. (I did pray FOR OW at one point 1.5 years ago...haven't managed to get back to that place in my heart again...haven't tried too hard, either.)

That's my O&H blurt for the day...coming clean to you that I have shaming stuff still in me...and for now...I'd rather take the shame bite than cure my resentment venom for OW/OM.

Hey, I feel better!!

You sound really good, Rin...give yourself the kudos for your responses (which sounded authentic) and that your fears are not for the right now...this minute...they are in the unknown future.

Think there's a listen and repeat session in your future tonight? In the garage, while he wipes down the bike after his run?

LA

HI, All! Thanks you for your posts. I understand the kid thing. We had a discussion with him when we walked through the door. OS lied said it was a pencil, said he was going to shapen the pencil with the knife...blah,blah,blah...

The teacher told H that there were two witnesses. OS continued to lie about the situation. We asked him if there was anthing else that he wanted to discuss, OS said no. H asked what I thought about what OS was saying I said that I didn't believe him because it wasn't his normal behavior when he didn't do something. Usually he refuted it really loud and he was REALLY quite today.

So, needless to say, OS got punished.

"My question would be...if you want truth, to live in it, know your own and others'...why did you participate in that lie? Because you were benefitting, your kids were benefitting from it...maybe moreso than MC? Well, you won't know 'cuz you didn't go there..."

I told his respected co-worker and H got tired of me saying that he was lying about going to MC and asked me to stop "reminding" him. What more could I have done? The respected co-worker was his immediate boss at the time. The one that has to present H's need to the higher ups. The way I thought about it is that I can't control H. Yes, the kids and I were benefitting from it by his time present with us but at the same time we could have used the money from the hours that he missed.

WH, like I mentioned earlies, stopped leaving on Tues. but kept Thurs....you know bike night. I feel this is just in H's nature...some would call it selfishness.

"(I did pray FOR OW at one point 1.5 years ago...haven't managed to get back to that place in my heart again...haven't tried too hard, either.)"

Not way, I can't believe you did that! Wow! I couldn't...HN...yes, I have...not OW. Oh, on HN, I was just popping off at the mouth earlier. I have no need to apply my energy in that direction...I find it useless and come to find out so does H. Go we're good on that issue.

Just need to see about his job and us...and I believe that H and I will be fine...just need to iron out some wrinkles along the way. We are sticking together...like we use to...we lost our way for a while but I belive that we are good. I know in my heart/gut that this OW is out of the picture. Now, I just have to concentrate on building an A-proof M. That my goal and I understand that it's going to be rough, but I'm up for the fight.

I guess we will all see what H has to think along the way too.

Thank you all again without your suppport I would not be where I am today. You are all super wonderful! You too Marflow!

Take the advice here about meditation...or at least take slow, deep breaths, Rin...

so you can notice your pattern.

You're thinking of creative ways for extra income.

Stop.

Your WH can do that. Trust that he is aware and capable. He is.

The fixer in you comes out galloping in times of stress...concentrate on the stress, not the fix.

Know the stress...like HL said to you...know that for today, it's just today...don't stress stack incidents. Know each for what they truly are...not how they feel inside you.

You're right about me not knowing you'd told his boss about MC...my bad. I'm looking out for you too much, I think. Not respecting your capabilities. I'm sorry I did that. You were not party to his choices...you did share it with the proper person.

And yes, my middle son was nearly expelled in the second grade for taking a knife to school to show off...one we'd won at a carnival...because of the zero tolerance policy. Scared us. Are you more afraid of his threat or him lying? Not acting as you expected?

You don't need to see about his job and "us"...just you, yours...being present, breathing, knowing what you know and what you do not know...because your practice is paying off inside you...holding you in your own hands when things outside of your control lure you into thinking in your previous patterns...

You're doing great!! Please know you are...find out where your feeling lost is coming from inside...needing support (and we're here to give it)--approval? Assurance? Acceptance?

Wha? What? Tell me...tell me...geesh, physician heal thyself kinda thing, huh?

((((Rinster!!)))

LA

Oh, Rin ... I'm really sorry, but I had to laugh at the incident with your OS....

When DS was in 3rd grade, he got in a fight on the playground over who could go down the slide first. In addition to throwing some wild flailing punches, he used some beautifully colorful language ... he got suspended for two days and we had to meet with the principal three different times over it, and sign all kinds of discipline forms.

A couple of weeks later, he got mad at a kid in his class (for stealing his girlfriend) and paid another kid, with his "classroom cash", to beat up the first kid! THAT was another fun set of meetings with the principal ... no suspension that time, though.

A week later, he knocked the same first kid from earlier into the bushes on the way home from school. DS said it was an accident, that they were just clowning around, but that story really didn't fly well.

By then, the prinicipal had decided he was a threat ... he wasn't allowed to walk to or from school anymore, there was so much paperwork and required counseling and so many meetings with the principal that it was like having a second job.

It wasn't at all funny at the time, but now it is. You'll look back on this and remember it. Memories are made from the imperfect times, not the perfect ones. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-AmI.

Good morning everyone! I feel so much better today! I'm still waking up in the middle of the night but no more than twice now. Meds must be doing better and I'm starting to feel SOOO much better. It makes it much easier to deal with things. WOW, BABY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

"The fixer in you comes out galloping in times of stress...concentrate on the stress, not the fix."

That little fixer, I tell you...she's horrible...can you believe that she's a control freak?...AND she's trying her best to learn to let go...mostly in part from all the wonderful people here...it would be in my best interest...

I've complained for years that I feel like I do everything...that I can only handle so much...H would say that he knew he needed to help me out more but wouldn't or I wouldn't let him. Well, HL, I finally get what you have been saying! WOW, it only took me 4 1/2 months...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I understand what you were saying about you doing less...H will just have to pick up the slack...I can't do it anymore and won't...there's that wonderful pattern... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I shocked him last night...I cooked supper even through I had a terrible headache and after I was finished I asked H to fix my plate...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />...he like jumped and looked at me then said okay...that NEVER happens! Why? because I won't let it happen...I'm the one always on the move...I'll fix his plate, the kids, then, mine.

I see alot of things that I need to let go of...that's where the feeling of being lost comes from...I'm not use to the new pattern I'm trying SO HARD to take on and it's making me uncomfortable... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The reassurance...the acceptance is the pat on the back to help me accept the new path that I'm choosing...I'm fine, and I will be greater than I ever was... feel that we haven't been working as a team...I've been running sole and he has been doing the same...

I need to let go and let him run with what he needs to do...his choices, his actions...not more rushing in to save the day...I get it, NOW! Doesn't mean I won't try to back peddle but at least I'll know when that fixer comes out to pat it on the back, say it's going to be okay, and tuck her back in my back pocket...all safe and sound...

H and I were just talking last night about OS. He didn't bring home his spelling stuff...sure I could have gotten H to go to HN and get a copy from her D but H didn't want to deal with it and I said that OS needed to learn that mom and dad aren't going to rush in and save the day. He'll just have to accept the consequences of his actions. H agreed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Needless to say...ALOT of things are changing...we've decided no HN in our lives, OS has to learn to be more responsible, we're working more as a team...things are coming along...lots and lots and lots of life lessons here folks... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Oh, YS asked me if he was going to get a spanking too last night, I said I don't know go ask your dad...he went in and asked and I was right behind him...H asked for the stool and sat YS on it...H got right in front of his face and told him that he better start listening to us, when we say clean your room, clean your room, stop talking back (he's really bad about this)...

Well, H let him down and I said go clean your room...He DID A really great job for 4 years old...I was impressed...no whining when we said go to bed...no backtalking...it was great!

All a matter of letting things go adn letting H handle some things. I feel good, really good today! Thanks everyone. you may have to slap my hand in the future! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good job, Rin! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you...let's see how well I follow it...LMAO!

Good Afternoon! H cooked lunch for me! WOW, BABY! And he plans to do some bacon wrapped shrimp for tonight! Who knows whatelse he's got planned? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I made sure to give him a big kiss and say thank you for lunch before I left. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was sitting here wondering what happen to those horrible Mondays and Tuesdays of not so long ago. LOL No, I wouldn't exchange them for what I have now. Granted we did have a fallout Monday with the card but I can handle that! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

No, biggie! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yum! Can I come over for dinner???

Very cool that H is taking care of things while he's off. Any new news on his job?

You're doing great, girl! Keep it up!

-AmI.

H said sure, you can come over. He said he's always up for making new friends. I just got off the phone with him.

H called to let me know that another boss just called him and they asked that he be at the shop for 10am tomorrow. I just told him that was good and I knew he would make the best decision that he could with the info that he has.

Yes, it is very cool, I hope that we can incorporate that into our daily lives once he returns to work. I've often complimented him on his cooking when he does cook and when he doesn't I tell him that I miss it.

When we first met we were always in the kitchen together. When I was PG for OS, he left dishes in the sink in water. OMG, it stunk SO BAD, I was in my 1st trimester and SO wanted to throwup at the smell. H did the dishes and got rid of the smell.

We were talking last night and he was saying something about his bad attitude of late and I told him that I could really say anything about it but I looked at him as two different people and that I was just now getting by H back.

He didn't say anything and of course, I wasn't expecting an answer, nor did I want one. I wanted that thought to sit there and mold over.

H has been calling my sweet little nicknames and doing little things for me. It's almost wierd because I'm not use to it. LOL

Is that strange?

Just called TMed H to pick on him called him a couch tater, and he wrote back but u love me, and I responded yeah, i do!

Well, I called him because I was on break and bored. Come to find out homeboy vaccuumed the living room and said he was planning on getting in the kitchen. We also have plans to clean out the garage but it's extirly to hot right now.

I asked H about tomorrow's meeting with his bosses and he said that he was going to go in with an open mind and if it didn't sound good to him that he was just going to go look for another job. Benefit to that is the Oil field is booming and it shouldn't be hard. he turned down to offers a few months ago, not wanting the hassle of transferring 401, insurance and all that other stuff.

We have even taken to saying I love you again before getting off the phone. Is he out of the fog? I imagaine that the last conversation with OW didn't go well because all he's says is that he was mad and can't remember what he said and that she hung up on him. He's also said that I don't have to worry about her. I guess the only thing I have to do is watch to see if his behavior changes in the future.

Knowing him, the fact that she was trying to go after his BF was not a good thing in his book. Then, OW lieing about C with his BF. Things were going downhill, I don't think I have to worry about her either.

Thank you all again for all of the support, direction, and advice, you all mean so much to me.

HL- What's up man, you must be really busy? I hope all those activities are dragging you down!

Your FWH made lunch...and you thanked him and smooched him...

How about adding a few of your truths?

"I feel appreciated and loved. Thank you."

Each little thing...name the EN it fills...tell him how much your love bank is growing...admire him for the way he's handling his suspension...that you are with him on his decision and mindset...that you're in this together.

You probably do this...just occurred to me so I went with it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now you see how the Mighty Mouse was a really bad symbol for me...you have gotten so much in just four and half months...took me years...there's a huge admiration deposit to give yourself instead of a putdown, toots.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Do not guess at out of fog...you're knowing and appreciating your life details...what he's doing...and what you're doing. That's real living. And you're doing it together.

Talk about open minds...which opens hearts, huh?

Take all OW thoughts and throw them out as they come...no pondering, wondering, trying to figure out or figure in...let them go. Worrying is like praying for what you don't want. When you tell yourself, "I won't worry about her" you are also telling yourself "Worry protects me."

And as to your 4-year-old's cleaning his room...did you also tell him how wow'd you were, that you admire and appreciate him doing that?

Consequences are...let them out. Be honest and tell what's in your heart...to everyone. I think that's what you're doing...I'm just double-checking, 'cuz what you're doing differently in one area has to go to all areas for balance.

Thank you for being on this planet Rin...and who you are...completely.

LA

I hear you loud and clear LA...

You know for the longest time I would let people know from the time that I met them...What you see is what you get with me...somewhere along the way I stopped telling people that...it was almost a remind to myself when dealing with others to be true to myself...

No layers...an attitude of it you don't like it...I'm sorry that's me...seems like so long ago...

I became so disillusioned in my mind...staeing OP's intent...looking for the hidden...when really I should have been looking to myself for what I was hiding...me.

Sad part...I have no clue what did that to me. I just know that I did...I can remember feelng rejection...tons of it...from H, from family, from friends...and then the walls came...the people pleaser came rushing in, wrecking my whole world...

No longer was I Rin...I was a slave, a servant...often I felt guilable...easily influenced by others statements, feeling, and actions. It ruled my life...I see what H was saying two Sundays ago about how I use to have an I don't give a care attitude...I can relate to AmI's WH saying that she didn't have a backbone...where was mine?

H all to often would said to me it's what makes you happy...and I never got it! Words would stab me...linger in my mind for days on end...hurting over and over...DJing every chance I got...getting madder and madder at the world...

Why? Because I allowed everyone else to come before me...I allowed myself to take second place...to feel like the tormented child...

well, I have a great idea of how I don't want to feel amymore...an idea of what I want to feel and be...I have a goal: to enjoy life, get back to being me, and grow which each waking day...to be a positive influence to all the people I come into contact with not just my children and H.

I could go on but I won't, some of that's for me, just to know, to be aware...that's the key...

Rin,

Good for you on the HN. Now a little advice on the sitch.

I would tell your H that you really appreciate it and it means a lot to you. In a nice way you need to express that saying it is great but the follow through is what matters. IMVHO it is worse to say something then not follow through. To me that is a very important aspect of my M. Do not pay me lip service then do what you said you wouldn't.
This could be a very important turning point in your M if hed does what he says and if it were me I would let him know that.

On the lying thing. I think it is simple. Lie if doing so can alleviate some of the consequences for your actions. I know my kids do it and so does the FWW. Right now that issue is right back at the forefront of our M now that we are in MC.

This however is a good way to practice your incremental enforcement. When my kids try to lie to me I let them know I will verify what they are telling me. I tell them you are already in trouble for your actions. Every thing you tell me if it is not the truth you will be punished more. So either way I will know the whole truth and you will be punished for that. Then there will be more punishment depending on how much work I have to do to find the truth and how much you lied to me. The choice is yours. Then I lay out the consequences. No gaming, computer, TV and you will go to bed for the next 2 nights at 8:30. I will just add time to those restrictions if you are not honest with me. So now is your last chance before I go about finding the details out. Usually at this point honesty starts flowing.

Finally about losing yourself. I think that is part of being enmeshed, about being an enabler, possibly about being codependant.

I look back and now I see I lost myself when my Identity was not about being HL. I lost it when HL became the husband, father, sole provider etc. Those responsibilities I accepted but they became my definition of who I am. To me the better I was at those things the better HL was. What I lost was measuring how much those brought joy to my life. I lost my sense of what I was worth. I didn't measure the value of being a good husband and sole provider against what my FWW was putting in. I just gave and gave and that made me feel good. Guess what sooner or later you get stuck in that mode. I didn't need any reciprication from the FWW. Now I look back and say if I did something nice for her shouldn't I eventually get something in return? Shouldn't it be appreciated, admired, put into my LB? I never felt the need to get out what I put in. That is how I lost myself.

The struggle we are having now is that is my New Reality. My new reality is my perception of my M is based on my ability to take out what I put in. I do not want to be selfish and a complete taker. I want to be a giver and a taker. I am not afraid to ask my FWW to do something that I deserve.

Friday night we had a little tiff. I went to the bookstore and bought a Stephen King book and another one called the Partner. I read them both. In two days. I didn't feel one bit guilty that I spent time on myself reading them both. Most of both of them were read at night after family was in bed but I read them at the pool too. I deserve to do things I enjoy!!!! If it means sitting down and reading a book instead of focusing on every one else. I Am entitled to it. I give them all a lot of my time. I need some for myself!!!!!

So that is my story and I am sticking to it.

Hi, HL...I hope that you are having a good day!

"...follow through is what matters..."

LOL, I'll be sure to keep that in mind! Thanks for the tidbit!

Oh, the other stuff...man, I really understand what you were saying all this time now about putting in and getting out...the renter... the owner...all that great stuff...

Oh, and see with OS...that's what I don't understand he knows that the truth will set him free, but he still chose to deal with the harrasser consequences...a little mind boggling to me...not only did his dad give him a few licks but he gets no TV and has to write book reports for me everyday. I'm going to discuss how OS's weekend should go in regards to his punishment today.


OH, and great NEWS...H reports back to work Monday but not at the yard he was at...at the yard he was working at...so he's not going to have to deal with the boss that started the whole mess...only thing is "THE STORE" is closer to this yard...ugh! I'll deal with it!

LA, if I understood you right when I have a thought about OW I should do an O&H statement right then and there, of course if I'm around H correct? Because worry is really doesn't protect us, it is actually like a loop of negative feedback to ourselves?

FWH said the other day that I didn't need to worry about him going to the store that these were just friends that he's been knowing for five years. It's true he's been going there that long and it wasn't until what? A year and a half that he started talking with OW.

I'd really like to know how he feels about her now, but I've kind of asked and he just doesn't answer the question. I know he use to "care" about her, but I'm wondering how that has changed. I just get the feeling that it's not the right time to ask and that I need to wait awhile longer.
Was that something that you guys were interested in knowing: how your S felt about the OP?

I wasn't only because he was a scumbag loser.

I honestly think that is one of the reason's my FWW wouldn't be honest with me. I don't know if she was ashamed of the A as much as who she had it with. Funny thing is the guy has no redeeming qualities. LOL.

He makes no money, lives in a basement apartment and couldn't even pay for their dates. LOL. I guess I was good for something.

Yes the owner renter thing is a big deal. I know my FWW is still a renter based on her comments after MC.

So she is going to be treated like a renter. The one positive is if you know they are a renter as a landlord you have the right to evict them if they do to much damage to the place. LOL

Good luck.

BTW kids will lie. I just make the consequences much worse when they do it. Teaches them to be honest.

Hey I heard from a very smart person once and you might want to pass this on to the OS. An honest person does not need a good memory. It is hard to remember all the lies you have to tell to cover a lie you are trying to tell.

I think it's important for me to know because the R went on for so long. H said that he didn't love her but cared about her. I don't understand that.

Now, of course, I don't think very highly of OW for obvious reasons...bus driver, five kids, D, dressed inappropriate for her age, could have been his mother...

...but why was he attracted to her?

I mean here I am professional, pretty, attractive from what I hear, well dressed, blah, blah, blah...and all of our friends who saw her or like how could he go for her...she's gross...

It's one of those questions that I need answered...like if I have the answer to that then I can have an A proof M. Sound crazy or am I disillusioned?

Yes and no.

For me I realized it wasn't about me. It wasn't about the OM it was about the FWW.

OF COURSE THEY CARED FOR THEM. What kind of person would do that to their BS if they didn't care for the OP. That is why NC is important. Sooner or later they will see the faults and the cracks in the OP.

He may have been looking for the exact opposite from you.

I don't know who said it to me but it went something like this.

If your FWS was married to the OW then he probably would pick you as an A partner. Why would you pick someone exactly like your BS if they are so horrible.

Big lightbulb on that one.

BTW I am sure there is lingering care there but as each day passes that too shall fade into nothingness. Just like you probably used to care about ex boyfriends even after the break up until one day there is nothing there. Sometimes less then nothing even the thought of "why was I ever with that idiot"