Then that fits the bill completely. You are doing it for yourself and you are making yourself a better person etc.

That in itself is a great thing!!!!

You are happy doing it, you are happy with the results and you are taking pride in it. Good for you.

I notice though you haven't submitted your idea for a home improvement show. I have a good name for it, Rinderella turns a pumpkin into a carriage!!!!

You're humor is side splitting sometimes! I love the idea! I've even got a jigsaw that can cut the curves! RMFAO!

LA-I'm reading the "hidden book". I'm not far into it but the emotions that it's stirring are very real. I posted on HL thread about it...it seem to fit there...I would really appreciate your help with dealing with the emotions and how to handle this. Reading about PA behavior, and finding that it fits like a glove causes feeling on relief because I can identify what the problem has been but also feelings of anger and frustration...

These feeling are not directed at FWH but myself...because I have let this happen...I think it's a matter of being able to forgive myself for my ignorance...

I really feel dissappointed I guess...kind of hard to say what is it...Until the A and D-day...I have always thought of myself as a strong individual and hated that I would back down to FWH...it's like I've hurt myself with my own behavior...i would like very much to let it go but I don't know where to begin...

What I DO KNOW is where I'm going and what to do in order to not let it happen in the future? I'm determined to be happy...I'm even willing to cut my loses should the future become unproductive...no longer to I want to question my sanity.

Rin,

Anytime you see something that may be wrong with you it hurts.

When I read about codependancy, enabling, and conflict avoidence boy that sucked.

It brought up emotions from the A, pre A, and even my Dad.

It hurt until I realized that I could change those things and in doing so I could become better from my past.


Why? What did you let happen? You did not know it was happening it is hard to let something happen that you didn't realize was really happening.

The question is now that you are aware of it are you going to keep letting it happen? If you keep letting it happen then you should have those feelings.

Ignorance is not bliss but it sure helps people make bad decesions.

But see now you know where you are going, you know your destination, you just have to figure out how to get there.

You know the definition of insanity. Just keep trying something different now until you find something that works.

Makes sense...I said "let" because I...well, never mind...I just figured out I was backing down from him post D-day!

Doesn't matter anyway, I can't change the past...only today and the future!

LOL. I was tripping over doing back summersaults after D Day. If I backed down any further I would be in Australia right now or the south pole.

I never agreed to be treated like that. Oh wait I did because I didn't stop it. I didn't know how to stop it. I didn't know what was causing it.

Now I do and I will. I like yourself have come to the conclusion it is not acceptable. I will not accept that from anyone especially the person that is supposed to treat me better then eveyone else in this world. If you can't or won't treat me that way then I am better off alone.

Notice I didn't say with anyone else. I can't predict that future but I do know if I cross the line that being alone is better then I know what to do.

Rin,

No longer want to question your own sanity...then don't.

That was the relief part of understanding P/A behaviors for me...it wasn't me...it was really happening. Forgive yourself? For choosing to believe he didn't mean that, couldn't have...doesn't know what he's doing? Well, that's a DJ which kept us feeling crazy. Another happy byproduct of ridding ourselves of DJs.

Yes, he means to do this...as we do in our own P/A behaviors...seeing them for what they are is a relief...makes sense...no forgiveness required, really...because we couldn't see reality for our fantasy. And as you read, tell me if you come to understand the really important part...you do not make him act out. You can't. His P/A behaviors are about him from his fears...so are our own.

Letting go the past...you are as strong as the rest of us...aren't you? What you didn't know hurt you...and what you did know hurt you...now, you have more information, better hold on reality...you'll still be hurt, only now, you won't double it by adding to your own hurt, will you?

That's the only thing you have control over in the future...planning those progressive, predetermined boundary enforcements...respectful ones...so you don't disrespect yourself anymore.

And when you do, you'll know you did...I don't believe it hurts as badly, but then, pain is so relative...difficult to measure for me...I don't know. I bounce back much faster...how's that?

I wonder if there's a book "The P/A Woman"?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and "because I have let this happen"...whoa...old Rin statement there? Hmmm?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Hi, all! I got off work at 3 today, came home and tried to wake H up again, but he was dead tired. He rolled over and pulled me to him and I went to sleep in his arms...My favorite place to be...always has been...funny that was the major thing that attracted me to him...

I love a nice, strong set of arms...forget the six pack for me...LOL

Anyway, i was happy just to be sleeping with him...I got up at 5 with him and we went our separate ways...

The kids and I went to Sam's club and did some shopping for the house. Then, I had some cash left over and some free meal certificates for them, so I brought them to Chili's and we ate. I picked up FWH something there and we brought it to him, then came home. OS had a classroom displicine slip...NOT HAPPY about that...

I called he to consult with him about OS's behavior and H said he would take care of it first thing in the morning...I was going to when I cooled down but H said no, his talk with OS didn't matter the other day...So H will handle it...Okay!

OS didn't tell me about it until we got home...I asked him if he thought I would have treated him out had I known that this was in store when we got home...he said no!

So, I got him to do his homework and sent him to bed like H said. YS slept in my bed with me last night and tonight I put him in his bed...well, while I was outside working on the garage...he sneak in my bed...LOL

I walked in the living room to do something and thought I heard snoring...sure enough he was smack in the middle of the bed...LOL He's a momma's boy and the one that has REALLY taught me how to be a mom...teaching him to be independent has been a chore...

Oh, I have to share this with you...the kids and I went to the H.I.P.P.Y. program last night and YS decided he had something to say, so he kept raising his hand to get the program director's attention...well, he did and decided to go to the front of the room, where she proceeded to stand him on top of the table so that he could address everyone...

I had to clue what this child might say...He asked everyone what ramen noodle were and a few of us asked he what are they...his reply...their made out of worms! All I could do it laugh along with the rest of the people there, as the director took him off the table.

I can see it now "Hello, what? YS is in the office again! What for this time? Oh, I see, yes, I'll be right there!" H and I have spent a lot of time laughing about the phone calls from school that we invision! YS has a major humor streak and we see him tring to be the class clown.

Well, I don't want to stay up to late tonight, but I do want to read a few pages of my book.

LA- I will let you know and thank you as always...you are so cherished in my book!

HL-same goes for you man! Oh, I'm still working on my idea for the show...I was thinking something about "Sawdust and Shorts...the equavilent to sand!" I learned my lesson on that one the first night! LMAO

Well, I hope that you all rest peacefully tonight with sweet dreams!

Okay, I'm ready to use the R word...I have been fearful to say that FWH and I are in recovery, but my gut feeling is that the worst is over and we have only great things to look forward to...

It was really rough during exposure and right after...the anger that I had to face with FWH was immense...but I made it through. Should I have to deal with this again...I wouldn't change the fact that I HAD to expose...I would do it again...only better! By better I mean that I would have a clear plan in mind and not hanging by the seat of my pants...

Althought this has been a horrible experience...I am grateful for it...it has changed me for the better...and I onlt intent to become a better person...stronger...more defined...determined...respectful...a better mother...wife...sister...friend...than I was before...

I have owned my mistake, behaviors, beliefs, and have tried to change what I see in me that has created problems in the past. My part leading up to the A and D-day!


This is the best that I can do...of course, there are bound to be bad days here and there but being aware of why it's a bad day and talking about it...that important...that's what matter...

I'm still scare to say that FWH and I are in recovery, but in two days there will be NC for a month...We have been doing well for a few weeks... the tension has passed.

FWH is more loving and willing to listen to what I had to say...granted we're not spending a whole lot of time together...but it's good time...

I feel good about my M...and I feel that as long as I led by example then it can only get better...

I want to run this by all of you! I was thinking a little earlier that all to often "in the past" that I have taken up FWH slack...making phone calls...appts...things he says he doesn't have time to get too...which in turn has made me feel overwhelmed sometimes...

I've decided that a healthy boundary for me would be to let him take on his own responsiblities...clearly stating that I will not do what I know that he is capable of...

For example...we have to sheets of plywood used to cover the windows during a hurricane...well, they haven't been picked up and have been laying on the ground since last season...he asked that I cut them up or said that if we had some changed batteries that he would do it today...

Give past experience...and I could be wrong; however, I don't see him doing this before he goes to sleep much less after he wakes up...He would like for them to be cut up, thinking that they are rotten by now so that we can throw them away...granted I have more time, but like I said I'm tired of taking up his slack and feel that we should be a team...a partnership...so hence, I refuse to from now on to do things that are not mine...

This will upset him, given his past behavior when I have refused to do something like make a phone call for him when he is capable and CAN make the time...it's not like he contributes alot around the house...he CLAIMS not to have time to do anything but can make the time if he wasn't sitting in front of the TV all the time...

I don't feel that I'm being unreasonable...this will free me up from feeling so stressed about having to "take care" of everything...I have mentioned to him before that I'm tired of OP passing things off on me to do when they are capable...

Since D-day, I have handed over responsiblities to the kids...I bought YS (because he wanted it) a small vacuum cleaner, and it's his responsibility to vacuum the living room when it's time...it's perfect height for him if you don't extend the handle...LOL

They are required to pick up their clothes and make sure that they make it to the drawer...OS is suppose to take out the trash (we have to remind him often)...

So, needless to say this is freeing up some of my time for me...I can relax when I come home and not be going going going like the Energizer Bunny! LOL H has complained that I'm always doing something...

My question is how should I response when the situation arise... I, of course, would like to be respectful in my response...actually I've already stated that I'm not taking on others responsibilites...should I just remind him...Any ideas?

Rin,

OK I am no expert. I may be wrong about what the MC is trying to do with us. But you are enabling him.

Our MC asked me in one session if I feel like I can't ask for help. I said yes that is how I feel. He asked why, I said because if I ask for help and it doesn't get done then I end up doing it and resenting the fact that I had to do it. So instead of asking her to do it I just do it.

HMMMM how screwed up is that. I need help. I ask FWW, she says she will. She doesn't or I have to ask a few times. Then it took more energy from me to get her to do it then if I just did it. So now I just don't ask. That is part of the PA dynamic, you know that.

Imagine this. DH gets up to go to work. He opens up his drawer to find no underwear/boxers. He asks Rin hey do I have any clean underwear? Oh sorry DH I didn't have time to do the laundry because I was cutting up and moving the plywood in the garage. LOL.

Oh Rin where are all the spoons? In the dishwasher. Are they clean? No. Why I was doing the other thing I asked you to do.

So maybe if you were so overwhelmed and could only pick certain things to do before your battery was empty and only did those things he would HAVE to help.

These are just suggestions. You can pick any responsibility you have that directly benefits him and just not do it so it effects him.

Remember how I told you I finally figured out that not talking to my FWW was the most effective thing I could do when she did these things. Well what is the most effective thing you can do.

If the sitch arises in the future just tell him you did the chore you asked him to do. Calm, Cool, and collected. BTW H I got rid of the ply wood. Do not add, like I asked you to do, or finally, or anything else. Make the direct statement you did it matter of factly. Then if he asks you if you are mad, upset or anything else. Just say no I am not I am just really worn down right now. Got a lot on my plate. So you are mad. Nope just really, really, tired.

oKay, that makes alot more sense...It's really funny that this came up today...I mean really funny...Before I left this morning I asked H if he would do some clothes...

Low and behold...I walked in at lunch and saw the clothes scattered on the floor...looked in the washer and he DID A LOAD...wow, I was impressed...I put them in the dryer and put another load in the washer...before I left I wrote him a note saying: Wonderful H, thank you so much for doing the clothes. I appreciate it so much! Love always, Rin

You really don't know how shocked I was...woods not done but the clothes are! I can handle cutting up that wood, it may not even be bad...

So, I have been wondering about enabling anyway...can you tell me more about it? I haven't read any books or anything on it...I'll do a search on it when I get a chance.

Thanks for calling that to my attention!

Enabling is pretty easy.

For me I enabled my FWW to be an alcoholic. She did not live up to the consequences of getting drunk. I watched the kids, picked up the slack etc.

Her actions should have had consequences but I did things to mitigate those things enabling her to continue that behaviour.

Your H is PA he does these things. You enable him by picking up the slack. His behaviour is not right but you mitigate the consequences by doing it instead.

The problem is that sometimes it effects you too. It is almost like you feel you have no choice but to do it. So you do it. Oops enabling. You do have a choice. I did have a choice. I could have told the FWW time to get out of bed. Kids are up and we need to get going. I can't I am hung over. Well I can't pick up your slack. It is saturday and we need to ...... Sorry you are hung over but that's not my fault nor am I going to let that be my problem.

Okay...That's problably the easiest thing I've learn on this site. I do know that I have a choice in the matter now! Thing is in the past I would ask him to do something...it not get done, I would either do it and be resentful or not do it and STILL be resentful..

now, I guess I can take on the attitude on ...OH, WELL...and leave out the resentment...

Although it's an easy concept...it's something that I am going to HAVE to make myself aware of...

The boundary thing is confusing to me now...that's not an easy task...I'm sure as I read PA man I'll learn more about it...

The resent is the easiest part. Do you not remember that you should expect nothing. I took a different route. I expected less then nothing. When she came through with less then nothing that was my expecation so what did I have to resent. Not much.

When you get what you are expecting then you aren't upset. Kinda like buying a lotto ticket. I really don't expect to win so when I don't am I upset, disappointed or resentful nope I got what I expected.

Boundries are hard because how do you enforce them. A boundry without enforcement is only a suggestion. LOL.

Like I say now when my FWW crosses my boundry I enforce it in a way that works. Yelling, explaining, getting upset etc just didn't work. Not talking to her and telling her that the reason is the way she treated me when she crossed my boundry works. Telling her I don't deserve that treatment and as long as she wants to treat me that way I will be distant from her. She doesn't like it when I am distant. She wants to be able to tell me everything that happened in her day. She wants me to compliment her on her appearance. Sorry I am not going to build her up when she is tearing me down.

I can tell when it is getting to her too because she will ask me to give her my opinion on some outfits and put one on then change right in front of me. I just look at the computer while she is changing. I can see her looking in the mirror to see if I am looking. I don't. God do I want to but I don't. So she loses too.

Rin...I thought of a show.
MB Extreme....we'll have a MB team...we'll travel in a Class A RV and visit those in plan B that need support. You and I (and Nikko would be good too) can do and teach BS to do home renovation projects, for spiritual guidance we'll bring LA, mortarman and ark^^, plan B specialists Pepperband, Melodylane and of course Orchid for reverse babble lessons, Mimi for the femme fatal makeover,and there are tons of Texans here to give BIG hair advice; Believer can give HD lessons, Lemonman can share crow recipes and health info, HTW, MWIL and Sleepless (for the guys) AmIOK, intexas, kim, pebbles (for the girls) can give lessons on child rearing, Mr. W, & Brits/brat for legal advice....You could have Steve Harley or Jennifer on speaker phone handing out missions like Bosley on Charlies Angels. Nah, wouldn't work....We would need too many buses for all the great people here! But it would be cool! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

HL- hhhhuuuummm...the pieces are starting to fall into place...I see the enabling, where the resentment and expectation come into play now, and you are very right about set up the boundaries and inforcing them.

See that's why I like exposure...it's loud and clear...you cheat on me I'm going to tell the world, and you have to deal with the consequences. I use exposure as my example you know...you do this...I do or won't do this...here are the consequences...of course, not to punish...

What you have been telling me all along is starting to click... I guess now that I'm not emotional and feel the turmoil...I can think more logically.

LA- Are you okay? It seems to me that all of your post have been brief lately...I could be wrong and please correct me if I am...But how are things going in your life? how's FOO, H, and the kids? I'm here for you also, I wouldn't like it much it this was a one sided friendship. Granted I loved your perpective and how you share. I would like very much to be a shoulder for you also, should you need one...

You are valued very much and have been an angel in my life! I owe alot of the pieces of the puzzle to you also!

ChaCha-THAT IS A FABULOUS IDEA! I LOVE IT! AND THAT WOULD BE A GREAT NEW POST! OMG, that's wonderful! You're the best!

AWSOME now all i need to do is to start the Caribbean Version here in Jamaica.

Thanks for that last post.(lol)

That is why being still now is important. For me actions did not work. Inaction worked. Go figure.

Finding what you can do that is not a punishment but has an effect on the other person that conveys to them that there are consequences for not respecting your boundries.

Not every thing can be dealt with by doing something. Sometimes you have to do nothing. My OS was having a problem with a friend. He tried everything with the other kid. One day I said next time he puts his hands on you take them off and walk away then don't talk to him. Your words are not working nor are your actions.

That day he came home and it happened and he took my advice. He said the other kid came up and apologized and said he didn't know it bothered my OS he was just kidding. Well OS has told him several times but kept on just hanging out any way. Now his friend respects his boundry and things are better.

It is the logical thinking that gets you everywhere.

Well, I am doing my best to be still and continue to grow...that's the best that I can do...

I'm still shocked that H put clothes to wash...I mean I have asked him to take the clothes and put them in the dryer and that hasn't happened on more than one occassion...recently! Things are changing, I hope...slowly but surely...

Rin,

Our MC asked us to get a book and for each of us to read it. He let us know that if he asks us to do something it is for the betterment of our M. If we do it we will be more successful then if we don't.

So he asked us to get the book "Getting the love you want".

I will be getting it today on the way home.

My FWW told me she was going to get it yesterday but didn't. Today she called me and was at the store, not the book store she had some time to kill so she went to look for a chair. No book yet but a chair. So I am going to stop on the way home and get the book so I can read it this weekend.

I tell you this because I really didn't expect her to get it. Now I wasn't going to ask her to do it. She committed to it. So when I get home I am sure she will say why did you get it I told you I was going too. I will be still and just say. I wanted to read it this weekend. Then she might say why didn't you tell me to get it when I was out. I would like to say that if this M was important to you I wouldn't have to tell you.(because that is how it makes me feel sometimes.) But instead I will say it is no big deal.

But you see again I really didn't expect her to get it for us so I am not really all that resentful right now.

You know though I almost want to get two copies because when I read I like to highlight things that I think are important. But then she will see those things. HMM