So where's your contact instructions? It starts out good but no POA is outlined.

Ex: ....therefore, at this time for the safety of our family, I am respectfully asking that you seek another place to stay so we can prevent those angry episodes from happening again. The fear that is now a reality is great. I no longer feel safe in your presence. Please contact ______________ at: ________ for all info regarding our family.

You may communicate via e-mail if you need. I will respond when I can either by e-mail or via (3rd party). Please limit your commuication to the following subjects: _________________ (I chose $$, child visitation and mail).

I look forward to one day being able to welcome back my real H. I hope you do also.

take care,
Your WIFE

Something like that.

JMHO,
L.

rin you have been very quite today I hope your ok.
(((((rin)))))

I have no words of wisdom. You know what you have to do. Don't be afraid God is with you.


Peace be with you

I'm Doing well. I've been having a great day. I got off of work early and came home and went to sleep on the sofa.

F and I had to run some errands, and was nice enough to bring "DH" his cell phone, lunch and some tools he needs. We ate BBQ pizza and I just sent F to bed.

Before "DH" went to work we talked about the qualities that attracted, us to each other and how we felt about us now, in regrads to the negative (flop) and the positive (flip) attributes.

He hasn't got the email yet, and I have the opportunity to delete it. IT's not a plan B letter, it's my plan...

Over the pass two days, I think that I'm not MB material. That's not a bad thing, I'm not saying it negative...but I am taking my chances. I'm looking at doing a contract.

"DH" doesn't like MB, I understand where he's coming from, so we're trying something else.

I KNOW that MB works, I've seen it here, but people are different and they learn differently. I've read post that I thought were extreme. I can understand if some do not want to post to me b/c I'm not ready/willing to do plan b. I'm fine with that. I'm still calling for NC for life, and all of the other things that I need. I still plan to follow the MB rules once/if I/we get to recovery.

I feel very strongly about this...I'm not ready for a plan b right now...I feel it may be neccessary in the future should things remain the same...

Will I stop moving forward...NO...will I try to move forward in my M...yes...After some questions are answer from my "WDH".

I do want to clarify that "I AM NOT" scare of "DH" anymore. MOF, my child has been playing with F, and enjoying ourselves.

Well, I'm going to hang around a little but I've got some reading to do...I'm almost finished with this book.

Rin:

I read this and was wondering what you mean by this. What is "MB Material?" What do you mean by you are taking your chances? At your marriage? What is a contract?



Why he doesn't like MB? What's not to like about MB? You understand where he is coming from? Why? What are you going to try?

Why don't you fill us in..those of us that have been following you.. I don't want to JUDGE or CRITICIZE you..I'm struggling to understand what you are saying.



So why wouldn't it work for YOUR MARRIAGE?



Rin, following the MB rules will help you get into Recovery and to stay there. They should be part of your marriage NOW and EVERYDAY.

I am not particularly recommending PLAN B for you. I supported your choice to be in PLAN A. PLAN A involves requesting for your H to become completely open with you, for him to cease all contact with the OW and for you to protect your marriage. So since you are "calling" for NC, that is PLAN A...and that's an OK choice for you, IMO.

Finally, I want to ask you this question:

IS YOUR H THE SAME NOW AS HE WAS PRIOR TO HAVING AN A?

You see, when my H was having an A, he was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. He was TEMPORARILY INSANE and only became normal again after WITHDRAWAL. You seem to relate to your H as if he is not a WAYWARD. That has confused me. My H's A was completely OUT OF CHARACTER for him..whereas, you are relating to your H TODAY as if he is NORMAL..as if it might be NORMAL for him to have spoken to another woman on the phone for a lengthy period of time. Plus, you wrote him that E-Mail as if he continues to care and understand even though he is involved with another woman. You didn't answer me earlier but are you ACCEPTING his behavior because of his background? Are you allowing a WAYWARD H to make decisions about the best means to work on your marriage? Are you letting him lead the show?

I'm confused by you.

Hoping you answer..but if you don't, all is well.

I will continue to post to you if you would like.

I'm really sad for you and wish there was some way that I could help you...because I was SOOOO like you at one point...I wish you could learn from MY MISTAKES...I went down your same road...

Orchid: Really? You do need t/d well but great day? Your body sounds like it is finally getting it's message through that you are tired. Good you are able to get some rest. Be careful it doesn't get too comfortable and put you in a depressive mood. Not to make you scared but sometimes that's the tendancy or the easy way out for the BS.

Pay attention to your body but don't create bad depressive habits....to accomodate what you think is your comfort zone.


Orchid: Hm.... JMHO but it seems you are allowing yourself to settle of ok. That will last for a while but not create a good recovery environment. Ask yourself, is it really good t/b accmodating to a WS?


Orchid: Ok but who were you talking to your H or the WS?


Orchid: If you do something 1/2 way, you may not get full results. Of course there is no guarantee either way but a complete plan has better chances. I will say that many a BS think as you are right now. Then they realize different a bit later. I know I did. Maybe that's why I am such an advocate for a solid plan B and not a 1/2 hearted one.


Orchid: A contract with a WS? Is that safe? Who will ensure the contract is honored? If it isn't what are the penalties and consquences? You are flying solo on this one. Is that good for you?


Orchid: Find me a WS who likes MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> So when your child doesn't like to take his medicine or eat good food, you give him candy? Hm......


Orchid: It only works basedo on the effort put forth. MB is not a magic pill or potion. Now I will say you sound like you are wanting us to give you a reason NOT to do plan B. I think those posting to you have been here long enough to know we have seen this path before. But you have to do what you feel you need to do. In time you may realize what you s/b doing.

No sense into following MB rules once you get into recovery. Better to stick with what got you there. Why change methods if you didn't want to use the MB suggestions in the 1st place? I sense you are scared and hesitant. You really are not ready for plan B but your WS is. He is prime for it and you will hold your recovery back trying to be nice to him. It will send him mixed messages and make him think you now approve of the A. Even with the NC request, you are still sending mixed messages. Why can post this with such surety? Because I have been there, done that and it wasn't successful. I don't want to see you fail but I can't stop you either.


Orchid: Ok.


Orchid: What if the WS doesn't answer the questions to your satisfaction? Then what? It isn't safe to make plans on what a WS does. It is better to make plans on what you have control of.


Orchid: Hm......



Orchid: Rin, we care for you more than you realize. Mimi herself has invested a lot of her valuable time with you. At the very least, pay heed to her posts.

We are not trying to tell you what to do but point out what we see from your posts. It is just sooo hard sometimes to see and not be able to fix. But that is life and we must accept that fact.

I hope you don't feel I am brining you down. This is a very delicate and sensitive time for you. As a BS your feelings are all over the place as you are trying to find that shred of hope. It is out there, just not dangling in front of you. Should you expect a few nice efforts from a WS? Yes. Should that in itself be the reason to change your course? Time will tell. I gotz my opinion on that one, just cuz' I've been there done that. So what I can tell you for sure is to, please, please be careful.

take care,
L.

Well, Hello, mimi! I'm sorry about not answering your other post. I've tried to stay busy today. I missed some work that I needed and b/c we're in a new week it was doubled.

LOL...go figure I still didn't accomplished it all...well, there's tomorrow! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

F and I didn't get home until after 8 tonight, then we had to eat, and I sent F off to bed. L called us also, they went to the fair, but "he didn't get to see the animals!" LMAO So, not a whole lot of play time for me. I've been reading and am loving this book...it sats the same things that MB does but different, acyually more in detail...

why the unfaithful partner may not want to do something...it could be issues in childhood...things like that...it gives exercises you can do with the hurt partner...questions you can ask yourself whether you what to stay or go...it mentions contracts b/t the unfaithful and hurt partner...low-cost behavior (both partner do)...high cost behaviors (only unfaithful partner does) (NC for life is an example, stopping going to certain places, things that make the hurt partner more able to start trusting)...

When I think MB (hence MB material), I think a by the book thing...I can't adhere to the book...yes, with the exception of one thing...I see my full blown H...

Speaking of, Mr. man forgot his cll phone today...so I got the opportunity to go through the WHOLE thing...nothing there...I was relieved to say the least. I'm calling him "DH" b/c I 'm not sure what to call him...

okay...C w/ OW 6 days ago...I don't really care if I overreacted with the other OW or not...I made my point...he crossed my boundary and has a new W TMing him...I called her first thing...then I got in my car and went to where she works...left a message with her co-worker...

I think I was very clear about being crossed...if this occurs again...I know that what I did that time didn't work and it's TIME for a MAJOR CHANGE. He sees with the exposure that I did, first time, not that bad, second time worse, and I'm willing to work through this time:

1) I truely believe that I didn't make myself clear.
2) She called him, phone rings and he has always had a tendency NOT to look at the larger pics, and the idiot answers.

Before now, I was gunho...I can do this...we can recover...I'll change...I'm going to stick it out...

THIS TIME...I'm not so sure if I want to stay...if I want to deal with this anymore...I know I SHOULD be going into PLan B right now, if I were going my the book...but something in me says NOT YET...

I don't know what it is...but I've got to believe that it's here for a reason...I HAVE made a turn around...I have been going and doing things that I wouldn't have done...I've started talking to my mom and stepdad after years...

SOOO much has changed in the last five months...this last C, I was really angry about but I really didn't feel hurt this time...it was more like a disappointment...I wish we could know each other IRL!

SO, YES, H is pretty much back, and being nicer then before, more caring, more concerned...he stopped me and said that he really did love me...

I have asked for yeard for him to help me out with our finances...just to be on the same page and he could have more input when a decision has to be made...he mentioned sitting down with me this weekend and learning the program I have it on...not to mention rreading the highlighted sections in this book...

Now, old behavior...H says something and doesn't step up to the plate...I let it slide...WELL, NO MORE! I will call him on it and let him know how I feel about it. So, I'm expecting the same old behavior...no getting hurt there...anything better than the old behavior and I have benefitted.

I FEEL that the A is over...thinking back...he has always had a sense of entitlement...will tell you he not going to...then comes around...LOL...it's like it takes him weeks to admit when he's wrong...at least two...

You that saying "Good intentions will get you nowhere", that's good old H, pre-A good heart wants to do the best that he can but poor thing just doesn't do it...and he's his world's worse critic.

OH, F and I were joking around...and F said "I brought out the kid in mom" teasingly. I said the kid's always out in mom, it's dad that walks around like he's got a stick up his @ss. F laughed and when we got to H's shop, F was joking with me about what I said saying he was going to tell dad. So, I repeated what I had said. H said "YEAH, I'm the ******!" I just looked at him, figured there was no need to refute it! LOL

See in the past, I would have said something like that to the kids, then, when they teased, I would have fussed them. Please no 2x4s, I'm already ashamed of that. The way I see it if he doesn't like what I say, he can kiss my @ss, that his problem. And not to be mean, but to say I'm not holding anything inside any more...take me or leave me...

I, and oh, GOD do I know It, I can do without him...Can he do without me? It's on him mimi, I'm not playing with him anymore.

So, LOL...sorry so long...I hope I was clear...actually I just wrote what was on my mind without referring to your post..LMAO I'll have to read back through it and see it I missed anything...

Thanks for the chance to open up...it just reaffirmed what I have been thinking...Oh, the contract...no I mentioned it...Okay!! Good night!

I miss all of you guys, I'm wishing you well, and praying that many blessing come your way. Thank all of you!

O-we posted at the same time. I promise to post soon!

Hi, O...I was really tired earlier, so now that I've gottn some sleep, I feel like i can answer some wuestions.

I'm not letting WH take the led that's what got me were I am today. And in order to answer some of your questions, I have to finsih the book...LOL...almost there...

I wish I could learn from you and mimi's mistakes also...but sometimes we just need to fall on our face on our own...I can only hope that's not where I'm headed....

I don't plan on changing methods in the middle that what I like about this book SO much...it says the same things...it's just not AS CLEARLY outlined like MB is...I'm in stage 3 now, how to recover form your A...

In this part it tells what the unfiathful partner MUST do to restore trust and rebuild the M. It explans why that person may be hestitent in doing what is needed...I see a great deal of insight here...why the hurt partner acts the way they do...it talks about trigger earlier in the book...

Like I say okay...I need you to protect me...for you to protect me I need you to do exactly this...it's not not saying okay...you need to follow the rule of protection, the O&H rule...

I have to let him know what I need under those rules...see that's the part I didn't get with MB...it seems like MB leaves alot open, alot of guess work still within the M...I feel like this takes the guess work out of those rules...

As far as the contract...I need to finish reading and review that section...

Well, I'm getting super sleepy again... I KNOW and APPreciate ALL of YOU looking out for me, please don't get my wrong...but I have felt some pressure and it's hearing what "I" don't want to hear again and again. That's all mine...but I look at it this way...friends tell each other EXACTLY WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR...

You all wouldn't be doing it if you were not looking out for me...

Stepping up to the plate everyday...Rin!

Rin,

I like your attitude and do wish you well with your direction. Just didn't want to see you venture into the unknown alone and without a plan.

If your book is more specific and that's better for you, then that's great. Maybe when you are done reading it you can help those who are also having a hard time.

MB provides general guidelines and does expect us t/d our share of the work to learn the info and apply them. Working with Steve or Jennifer completes the circle of support available from MB. Reading is good but a good coach with years of successful support adds to the asset of this site.

Just be safe ok? Don't fall for any WS tricks.

Glad you got some rest.

take care,
L.

Good Morning O! Everyone! I've got my wonderful cup of coffee....LOL...I'm sleepy...and I need something to eat. I'll work on those...I've lost 3 and 1/2 lbs. I'm really liking that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I thought about that, really I did, I would like to give back whenever I can.

I think when my energy level get low is when I'm going to do a plan B.

I told WDH that I emailed him before lunch yesterday. I'm not worried about his response, if I even get one.

Oh, I just got the best email from MIL about L. he has them so wrapped up there...this child's personality is off the charts! MOF, his daddy called him this morning. L was all excited to talk to him. They talked about school and his daddy told him how proud he was of him. The teachers up there are eating him up. They think he's so cute!

I have really been enjoying my time with F. I think he's at that age where you can talk and have a good conversation. MOF, I fixed his lunch the other day and wrote him a note for him to find later saying that he was a great kid, I hoped he had a good day and to work hard. A few days later he thanked me for it saying that he keeps it in his desk at school.

F's even been complimenting me! I can see where my changes have been good being around F. LMAO, plus the house is SOOOO quite with just one; nothing's getting tore up! LOL

Well, I can ramble on and on about the kids. Oh, the other day "WDH" said something about taking the weekend off to celebrate my b-day.

::::shrugging shoulders::::

We'll see...

{quote]Just be safe ok? Don't fall for any WS tricks[/quote]

Keeping it in the back of my mind! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on the weight loss and gaining perspective!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"I think when my energy level get low is when I'm going to do a plan B."

Why would you determine your course of action based on your energy level? Doesn't that do up and down? How's the sleep? Got any?

:::looking stumped thinking of how I could rip off the got milk advertisting campaign for sleep and wondering what on earth sleep could be symbolized like a milk moustache--all that comes to mind is a person's face with their head lolled back with their mouth open and eyes closed...not a tidy symbol, IMO...Got sleep?:::

I wonder if that would be dangerous to put on billboards?

LA

Just posting this. and here's my reply.


LA- You are too funny someday! I was already smiling this morning. I meant energy level as far as the M is going. If I feel like I can't go anymore with it...then I need to change my sitch.

So your REAL.."full-blown"... HUSBAND thinks it's OK to call OW and to have close friendships with them? Has this been the nature of your marriage? Is the same true for you? Is he open to you have FRIENDSHIPS with OM? I'm not familiar with this type of marriage, Rin. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm being truthful. Go ahead and answer my questions if you don't mind. I'm still seeking to understand this.....



Does the "D" stand for "DEAR"? How about just "H"..that, to me, would be accurate.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



That's why I'm not getting the "DH"..What's "DEAR" about that?



And the point of this?



Come on, RIN. BASICS..whether you want to use MBers or not..He needs to change his number so she can't call him..My sons do this when they break up with GFs and they don't know about MBers.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



I bet it's him charming you...BEEN THERE DONE THAT..



You see, I told you so. If he LOVES you, he needs to EVIDENCE this by CHANGING HIS NUMBER, WRITING THE NC LETTER...That would be a definite SHOW of his LOVE..I would say that he is not back unless he does this..UNLESS you are saying that it is NORMAL AND EXPECTED for a H to be open to relationships with other women..Contact with another woman just 6 days ago..LOVING to me would mean BEGGING YOU FOR FORGIVENESS..going to great lengths to show you how SORRY HE IS for doing this to you....I'm not seeing his REPENTANCE for his WRONGDOINGS....REPENTANCE then FORGIVENESS on your part is what I believe in....that belief is not necessarily MBers..it's from my other major literary resource.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Why is this FUNNY? To me, it's sad. Also, if the A is over, then he should have no problem at all with changing his cellphone number for the PROTECTION of YOUR MARRIAGE...



I'm sorry..ALthough you're not playing with him, he's PLAYING with you...unless he EVIDENCES his LOVE for you.

Rin, you don't have to SETTLE for a marriage that is less than wonderful for you. I know your marriage won't be perfect but you can work on it being the best that it can be. In the midst of typing this, I had a telephone discussion with my H which would NEVER have occurred prior to his A and OUR RECOVERY. Our pattern of communication with each other is now improved a zillion percent.....This is why I stick around on this forum..because I pray this for you..I pray this for others here...

"Does the "D" stand for "DEAR"? How about just "H"..that, to me, would be accurate.... "

I sure can handle that! I said I wasn't sure what to call him.

"HUSBAND thinks it's OK to call OW and to have close friendships with them? Has this been the nature of your marriage? Is the same true for you? Is he open to you have FRIENDSHIPS with OM?"

He's have close friendships with OW but I've known them and they were not a threat. No, I do not have close friendship with men that he doesn't know either...I have one close friendship and that's with his best friend, who is like a big brother, no chemistry...

Okay, WS is it...

That's why I had to ask for clarification from his email this morning! It sounds like all friends, I'm trying to determine what friends he's talking about...

This is also giving me some time to save some money...so please keep this in mind...whether it's for a lawyer or to move out/away...

let's see if the emails helped...to be loved by him is not enough after what's he's done.


I also wrote this to him as an after thought.

Thanks for your time.

Rin - I think the email he sent you says it all. "Take me as I am or let me go." Your WH is telling you he is NOT ready or willing to change or put forth ANY effort into your marriage. He wants you to LET him do what he wants to do or let him go.

He says he LIKES who he is but doesn't LIKE who you are. He LIKES the guy who cheated on his wife. He does not LIKE the wife who is trying to save the marriage.

Knowing all of this, what do YOU want to do? Because the choice really is yours.

Sorry for butting in but I have been following your situation because it is similar to mine.

Best of luck to you!

Rin,

If you really just sharing, why are you asking questions? If you are repeating what he says to confirm what you read..."What do you mean by accept you as you are or let you go? I'm confused. I know you are here by choice."

Stay centered and focused...not attacking, trying to open his mind or show your stuff...just stating is sharing.

Tell us what you heard in his email...tell us what you felt...what you believe...any of the DJs going on? You didn't share what you wrote to him first...is that fair and honest? Why did you choose not to share that one with us?

LA

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, instead of talking and taking my chances with the same angry and
aggression that I saw the other day, I decided to write for MY SAFETY. I am
now concerned that one day YOU will snap and hurt me. I know it hasn't been
in your past nature or in your belief system to hurt women, but this time
you have a lot more at stake. I fear you snapping. I know that burning my
books was about YOU and not ME, but it was emotional abusive TO me.

I don't think that you see the similar patterns in our relationship as in
your childhood. I see mine, for all the chaos, D and S did love
each other. I CAN say that I learned a healthy way of looking at how a
couple showed affection and responsed to each other. I look to them now and
see all the devastration that they have held on to each other throught all
of these years. I wonder if "I" can indure.

I don't know if I'm capable of holding on to what I have at this point. I'm
trying to be objective and weight the pros and cons, but the cons carry more
weight then the pros, even though there are more of them. I fear that we
have hurt each other too much to repair it, because first you have to
communicate about it and we MOST certainly CAN'T do that well.

I feel like I'm doing my best with owning up to my past mistakes in our
marriage. I'm trying hard to take responsiblility for my part, and I'm
trying to be fair. I am half the villain in the relationship and I wanted to
learn from my mistakes to make a better marriage. I had wanted to talk to
you thank you for all those times that my eyes were closed and I didn't see
that you were going good things for me. I had wanted to tell you that I was
sorry for that an ask for your forgiven.

THIS is what I have been examining the past five months, trying to become
the best wife, mother, and friend that I can because I wanted my marriage to
work.

I asking that you give our marriage as much thought as I am becuase if I
can't love you like YOU need me too and vice versa then there no point in
continuing. This is just the way I feel. I was asking for a trial period, a
cool down period where we didn't see each other, so I/we could figure out
want we want for each other, not from each other.

I don't know if I'm making ANY sense but this is what's on MY MIND right
now, this moment...I try HARD to LIVE IN THE DAY!

Thank you for your time and listening to my thoughts. I appreciate it SOOO
much. Well, I have to get out of here. I'm hungry and I need a nap. I just
want to let you know where I am right now and I don't mean physically! LOL


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



okay...there it is.
This is from the other page. I copied and pasted it. How do I feel? it's his believes and I agree with Lost...I have to figue out ...:::signing:::Plan B...

I feel okay...like I don't have a choice...I just need to do it...get everything ready...plan b...gather some money, figure out bills...wonder if after I leave will he track me down and make a scene...I'm a little scare but I've feared worse! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I will get what I need tonight...from my meeting! I'll be fine with this.

Rin--
Yes, you CAN do this. Keep repeating that over and over. Read my threads from the last couple of days and you will see we are in a similar place. NC means NC. It is as simple as that, really. It's not that much to ask of WH, now is it??

I registered here in 2002 as you can see. That was right after WH A#1 - 3 months after we married. I should have RAN, not walked away then...many fellow MB'ers told me to do just that.
but, Noooo - i was determined to make this M work. I loved my H and just knew we could fix things.
So here I am - more than 4 years later and dealing with the same #$%^. I blame myself for staying as much as I blame WH for his behavior.
Rin, it took ALOT for me to hit bottom, but I finally did, with this recent and not the first continued contact with OW.
You know what WH said about my contact discovery?? He called OW because he 'was bored' on the way home from a football game..he had talked to me just minutes before but i was falling asleep (Gee, because it was late and i work for a living?!?!) so he called OW. He knew i would find out, he knew i would be hurt all over again, and he did it anyway.
This was my bottom, and believe me - i've out up with WAY more than most people would or should in the past few years.

So, WH has a choice now...change the cell # and write a NC letter that i can see. I told him this morning. If he won't do this for our marriage, i am done. Plan D for me, not plan B.

It would be alot easier if I were mad...I called my laywer, I'm waiting fro the return call.

Rin- I knew you would figure out wat to do.

Your right it would be easier if you were mad or hated him.
But you don't you love him and you thought everything was going along very well. But then that cement wall jump up and smacked you in the face. Been there done that.

That's why I'm in plan B again I should have stayed in it before but he said the right things and here I am today hurt because he has his head up his a$$. When you do it don't give in. You are so strong I've been following your stich since the beginning you've came a long way baby.

Don't let him confuse what you have done for your family. Your sons see the changes for the good and so do you he is your WS of course he is going to have a problem with this wonderful new you.

And you are wonderful don't ever forget that.

Peace be with you.