Well it is time to stop being afraid.

You can take precautions for that as well. You can let him know that if he comes to where you are you will call the police. You will tell them you are in fear for your safety and have him arrested.

This is not easy but it may be necessary. Your H is trying to bully you with veiled threats and outright hostile behavior. It is like he is saying to you it could and will get worse for you if you continue to try to change.

I can say this if you do nothing it will not get better. If you live with this behavior he will keep pushing. Each time going a little further.

I said it before I never in a million years would have beleived my FWW would hit me. Lets face it if I retaliated I could have really really hurt her. She did raise her hands to me.

First she pushed me down, the only reason she could do it is I was squatting down and off balance. I hit my ribs on the corner of the wall. It hurt. LOL. My weight and being off balance is what really did the trick. The next words out of her mouth. Did it hurt good, I hope you die. I stood up she told me if I go near the closet she would hit me. She did she started flailing punches at me. Then I decided to get the video camera out. When she saw it she asked me what I was doing. I told her I video taped everything. I had my back turned to her. She grabed me around the neck and reached for the camera. She couldn't get to it so she started choking me more. Her feet were actually off of the ground because I am taller. She got a hold of the camera and was willing to break it if I didn't let go. The whole time choking me.

So here is someone that "should" be in fear of their safety because if I retaliated she would get hurt. Does your H fear you. Does he believe that in a physical altercation you would get the better of him? I doubt it.

So I never thought my FWW would do that but she did and she had a lot more to worry about then your H.

Now with my FWW change is going to happen either way. I won't subject myself to being in an M where I do not feel loved, where I don't beleive my FWW will do more for me then any other man on the face of this earth. I love her and I would do more for her then anyone else on the face of this earth. If that is an impossible goal to acheive then I will just never get married again.

Hi, Rin.

I’ve been thinking about you a lot the last few days. You sure have been put through the wringer recently. No wonder you aren’t sure what you want right now.

Is there any way you can slow down a little and step back? Think it all through and decide what you want? It seems like you’re rushing into this new set of feelings just based on his e-mail. What happened to the two of you sitting down and talking and putting together a recovery plan? Maybe I’ve missed some of where you’ve talked about that, but it seems like the two of you haven’t been able to do that yet, haven’t said “this is what I need in order to recover, and this is why..........” And it seems like he might be open to that. At least he’s talking to you, he’s coming home to you ......... asking what’s wrong ......... it seems like he’s trying to reach out an olive branch, you guys just both are missing the middle ground mark.

Not sure if that makes sense, and the PA stuff, I suppose, could make this totally different. I just hate to see you throw in the towel too soon. It feels very reactionary to me, but that’s me – do you feel like you’re reacting to his e-mail?

I wish I could just fix things for you. I’m thinking about you a lot and still impressed by how strong you are!!

-AmI.

Hi Rin -

I agree with AmIOk - you need to step back and get out of the whirlwind for a bit. Take your kids and go to your dad's for the weekend.

HL has some good points too - I think now is the time you need to put some very firm boundaries in place, and be willing to enforce the consequences. It's often said around here that Wayward's have to hit rock bottom before they're willing to change.

Take care and be safe.

That's why I keep pushing through, becuase I'm not willing to live in fear...I won't to find all of my options out and then make a decision. that sounds like the time that he would let me leave the house and took my keys from me that day I hit rock bottom and started wailing on him. I NEVER did anything like that before. I'm also thinking about the night I left to sleep at a friend's house and he was driving around to all of our friend's house, saying when he found me, he didn't care what time of the night it was that he was going to make a scene.

Then there was the day that he showed up here, and my boss overheard him talking to me. She was scared for me and still is. She came from around the corner and asked if I was going to be okay. Then there was the day that he came and took my computer, he was aggressive that day too!

I really don't feel like I'm basing my actions on his email alone. I'm looking back at our whole life together. Before D-day, I avoided conflict and would just back down because I was scare of him being angry, so I avoided him or did what I could to make things livable.

I'm also thinking of the positive times when he would do things for me. He took me to his brother's prom after he found out that I didn't go to mine. Back in Feb. or March, he talked to a friend of his, got a free tux rental, and brought me to a Mardi Gras ball (before D-day). So, I have all of this to process...

I wish you could too, sweetie! unfortunately, this is something I must do without anyone's help! No moms, dads, friends...

This is not the first time that I hear he doesn't want to work on the M...since D-day, I get him rolling his eyes at me while I'm reading, if I ask him something...he does not want anything to change.

So, he's not willing to do anything that I need...certainly nothing I've asked him to do...still will talk to OW if she calls, and other female friends...he will laugh at me when I explain what I need and why...

He's going to have to hit rock bottom..plain and simple...So, HB, AmI, and HL...I agree with all of you...I would like to sit down and "talk" to him about recovery, but he's not willing to give an inch.

Thank you all for posting. I appreciate your support and strenght...it helps me be strong...you are all so wonderful!

Rin,

Boomerang!!!!!!!

What you are describing fits it to a T. He does something really bad and then he does something good or nice and you are willing to see that as a change and progress.

It is neither until you see A CONSISTENT PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR that proves it.

You are desciribing yourself and your anger in a way that shows he can bring you to a point that you don't like. You now have to live with the original sitch, the hurt, the fight then your reaction.

What sucks the most is you probably feel extemely guilty for the way you acted.

In my M I have called my FWW names and I think I feel more guilty about that then she does about what got us there.

Try that hat on for size. For me I stopped doing that not because it wasn't the right response sometimes but because I hated myself for getting there.

It is like when someone hit's you with their knuckle on your arm. The first time it didn't hurt, the second time it didn't hurt but sooner or later the constant repetition of that soft hit hurts and finally you snap and yell at them to stop doing it. And when you do they say I wasn't even hitting you hard. No but the 100 little hits eventually hurt more then one big one.

If he is not willing to give an inch then what do you do?

I am not advocating divorce or plan b or a 180 but.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Oh and by the way why the heck would he want to change. He seems like he has it pretty good.

Have an A and get a Harley. Have an A and my FWW plan A's me. Have an A and keep talking to OM. All without any real pain, discomfort or consequences.

Sign me up for that.

What can you do to throw a wrench in this?

I posted a love quote read it. Then maybe you will have an answer.

I'm filing for D, since I have too to be separate...if I have to complete the D, I will...

I guess I need to open a new checking account soon enough...

once he's out of the house I can adjust the expenses..extra cable channels...I don't see any point in keeping something like that if I don't need it...I can cut costs...if I have too, I'll ask for help, but I want to try to do it on my own.

I've always felt like I deserved more. See I read the boomerang...and said that's what's going on...that story is how I pegged the PA behavior between the two of us...

((((Rin))))
Take a breath and step back...remove yourself from this chaos....at least for the weekend. Tell him you are going to visit your Dad....no drama needed. Go see your Dad for the weekend....take a break and come up with a plan....for yourself and your sons....see if FWH fits into it.

Okay! Thanks ChaCha!

HL- I read the 180 list and CarolKH's stort

I love it! If I could only learn to talk to him in an emotionless voice! I know I need to stop the rubber band effect I've got going on here! I want to stop it!

I just don't get the react vs. act thing...

Thank you very much for sharing that with me...I saved it in my favorites.

mimi- are you okay today? I guess I'm not all that centered when I thought I was.

Guys the main thing here that LA pointed out is I see the way I have to move into plan B as a means to the end...well, I did until she pointed it out...I know that it doesn't have to be the end...

Thank you all for posting and being patience with me...I'm going to go to my dad's, get away, explain to WH I'm going...

he'll want to know I made it there...so I can TM him...

...who knows...I might actually sleep there...

I guess I really need to change my thinking to: I'm doing a plan B out of love...tough love!

Rin,

It is very difficult to do. Let me tell you what I have to say. DO NOT ESCALATE. I say those words in my head over and over when I start getting mad.

The reason being is once I do my FWW focuses on my anger. Not on the issue.

It is nothing more then smoke and mirrors used to get you too focus on your anger not the issue.

Good luck on plan B. Stay strong.

BTW the reason that quote struck me is that it seems like a lot of FWS hit rock bottom when they make that realization.

I talked to WH before he left. He asked me why I looked like I was mad. Well, first, we discussed last night's conversation about me bring him something to eat. He said that he didn't know that I had a meeting and he was really mad about work. I asked him it that was the reason he talked to me the way it did and he said yes.

So, he asked me why I was looked like something was bothering me or I was mad...I said I'm just trying to figure out what I was going to do. He said whatever I want to do. I said I just can't see making each other miserable. he said that the stress from work and from home is getting to be to much. One's got to give...he would hate to lose his job but he would hate to lose me too. He said that he's being watched at work, that he's not seeing anybody.

The guy who got him suspensed called his boss and said "Look I don't know if you know it but WH is standing outside talking to someone in a white truck." Boss said "I know he's standing right next to me getting our food." So, WH said to me, I've got stress at home.

I asked about the cell phone number change...he asked me if I realized how many people he would have to change his number with. I said yes, I understand. He said that he even mentioned it to our friend D and D said that would be a pain. D knows what's going on and is on my side. WH said again that he doesn't need a cell phone. I said I think he does.

He asked for a home cooked meal, said he was getting tired of fast food. I said well, I was thinking of going to me dad's. he said that was fine, I said I could bring him something before we left. he said if not that it was okay, because I needed to go visit them. Also, to tell everybody that he said hi.

So, he's willing to give up the cell phone but not willing to change the number. It was a good conversation! He said before he left when I figure out what I want to let him know.

I have honestly thought with a good heart that if I give in just a little than we'll be okay. He feels like I throw it up in his face everyday. To him that what he sees. He says that he's learned his lesson...I did and I didn't change my number or write a NC letter...we've survived...

So, with these good thoughts in mind...without the thought of chaos in mind...I will leave for the weekend. I'm not going to think about plan B...laywers...cell phone number changes...NC letters...or any of that...

What I need to think about is can I overcome this time in our lives with him proving to me in his own way? Will I feel comfortable with him, can I feel safe, and what would it take?

Ooooohhhh, this is what you guys meant! Sorry, a little slow today...I was in my our fantasy world...I see step back...okay...

I am so tired of this rollercoaster...I want off! So, i'm trying to call my dad and I'm not getting an answer...I'm not going to leave until I let someone know I'm coming...

Rin,

Sounds like you were really calm and respectful, woman!! How do you feel?

"He says that he's learned his lesson...I did and I didn't change my number or write a NC letter...we've survived..."

Please clarify...he says that your marriage has survived even though he didn't change his cell number, didn't write a NC letter, broke contact?

LA

I learned my lesson without these things...he didn't ask me for these...I said our M has survived and I didn't do these things.

I was calm and respectful! I'm confused because that's the us I know. That's the normal us! we talk about things, the angruing andthe anger is not us. That was a typical normal H and W conversation...

U need more than a typcial convo between an H & W. YOU need repair, lots of hard work, blood, sweat and tears from him to convince you (and the rest of us) that he is worthy of his family's respect.

Do NOT settle for casual convo. He owes waaay more than that.

L.

Everyone's support and opinions have been great for me...LOL...in one way are another...Thank you all for teaching me so much...I wish you all success in whatever form it takes.

I have faith for you all. Have a great day and take care!

Good luck. Hopefully your heart treats you better than mine treats me.

(((Rin)))

Why is he always saying this and focusing on your anger? Even when you are not angry.

In my M if I am irritated I am angry to the FWW. HMMM I wonder if instead of dealing with the issue if he wants to focus on anger even if it isn't there.


How about if you agree to call every single person he would like to have his new number and give it to them. I would also suppose they might have your home phone number so if you forget someone I am sure they can find you.

He you can go one step farther. Once he has the new number you can keep his phone for him just incase someone important calls through you can give them his new number. Oh you need to speak with my H here is his new number.

See there is some give and take there.

Easy peasy.

I have realized through this thing with my FWW it wasn't about right and wrong it was about winning. In certain situations it is clearly a win - win but that is not the goal for my FWW. Her goal is win lose so she doesn't give in. Even when she is wrong. IE keeping a cell phone.

I can tell you right now that My FWW has done this every step of the way. You want me to do that. I don't agree. Why. Well I could give you a million justifications or excuses or reasons that don't hold water but the real reason is you want/expect me too. Oh and by the way even if she would want me to do it for her that doesn't matter. In other words I will do the wrong thing just because you asked me not too.

Be careful. Don't take crumbs and take a stand.

Sounds like you are doing great.

Well, since Saturday's discussion, things have been going great! I am REALLY at peace with myself...I have a clear plan in mind...

With all the information that I have, reading CarolKH's thread and Frog's ideas, I know what I have to do and IT'S WORKING! I'm looking for that constant behavior change before I jump in head first...LOL...testing the waters with my big toe first...

From the behavior over the last two days, I just don't have my H back...he's new and improved! Touchy, feely, talkative, concerned...

Let me back up...Sat. we talk, I was sitting on the sofa and he laid down and put his head in my lap while we talked...I left and drove thre and a half hours to my dad's...I called when I got there...no I love you's on my part...just to let him know I was there...no I love you when I left on my part...I changed the subject...

F and I had a great time...I bought his bike and put to much air in the tire and blew it up...F thought someone was shotting at us...LMAO...my dad's air compressor is huge and I shouldn't have use it to air that little tire...so my Brother woke up (he is working nights) and we went to Wal-mart and Taco-bell...well, we passed a Fair with all the rides and everything...

We went back to the house, visited, mom came home, we visited with her, and F and I went to the fair on my B-day money from her...

We spent half on rides and half on games! It was great! F and I got home at midnight, we read from my Al-anon book and went to sleep. I slept pretty good, on and off until 11am. I got up F and I couldn't find what we needed to fix the tire so we went to the neighbor's house.

Once fixed, F went ride all over the acres of land that they have out there...it takes 30 minutes to get to town...he played in the sawdust...rode his bike all over...he was SO DIRTY! I stayed in the house, reading...I would check on him from time to time, and I napped from 3 to 4pm and we left at 4:30. After I went searching through the lumber my dad had cut...

I talked to H one time that morning to pass on a message from my dad..."That I could take any lumber around there that I wanted!" dad's not happy with H and he knows it! H told me he was sorry, this was about a previous visit.

Well, when we left my dad's I had F call to let him know. And when we got about 45 minutes from hom I TMed him. He called, so we talked briefly about supper. When I got home, no hugs, I was friendly, I didn't ask any questions about what he did, and didn't really offer what I did...I did mention going to the fair with F...

Next thing, I know he's accounting for ALL his time, who he talked to, and where he went...the freezer was in the house! Finally...I never said anything about it...my part was done...the rest was up to him!

We went get something to eat...H was VERY talkative about what he did...F and I played free word assocation (something I started on the ride to dad's the day before)...and H began to play with F...then me...we got a few laughs out of that.

When we got home, I went to take a bath, and after F was in bed...H came in there and sat an talked...he said again that he plans to read "After the A" book I'm reading...About 30 more pages and I'm done...

I got out, sat on the sofa, we chitchatted, and H put his head in my lap.

Well, we went to bed, and H kept his clothes on, saying he just wanted to hold me, be close to me, smell my hair. Well, I didn't do the clothing thing...and H was shocked...so we just laid there talking about the chapter I was reading...it was on SEX AGAIN...

I'll say this, it was the best SF I've had in a LONG time...I think almost every part on my baody was either kissed or touched! It was amazing...needless to say today, I'm back on track...just b/c we had SF last night don't mean I'm changing my plan...

Like CarolKH said, it's a combination 180 and Plan A...I haven't told H, I'm staying and willing to work more on the M...I've been pretty vague when talking to him about us...

I'm waiting on the call from the laywer today...to find out some information about cost of retainage fees, info on immediate D due to the adultry...the position he put himself in by burning the books...partition for removal...so on and so forth...

Not sure how I'm going to pass this information on to H yet...and I will make sure that my laywer sends me a bill for consultation.

So, this is where I am! I'll be around today...but will probably take the next few days off for here.

Hey, Rin!!

Wow, things change so fast for you, one minute to the next. I was so worried about you last week, and now things seem so much better. I know that the pros around here are on their toes and can offer much better advice than I can, so I won't even go there.

I'm glad you had such a fun weekend!


Hope you have a FANTASTIC birthday today!! What are you doing to celebrate?

Thinking of you!

-AmI.

Good Morning!

Well, my boss got me some flowers this morning and they are taking me and F (he's my date tonight!) to a SUPER NICE restaurant tonight @ 6:30. I've been wanting the Filet migon from there for a year now. H said he was going to wake up and bring me to lunch, we'll see.

My MIL is having flowers delivered here to me and that's about it! I Super happy with that!

My mind is really clear, and it's taking me NOT being emotional to see what I need to do. I have some very clear boundaries I plan to put into place with H. I plan to write them down and give them to him. he said in his email that he has not intentions of changing but his behavior is saying the opposite, along with his words. I'm paying more attention to his actions!

I WILL have a great day, and I will enjoy it for all it's worth!

Thank you for sharing my day with me! My special friend...LOL