Wonderings,

I do try to refrain from posting on Patriot's threads as a general rule. I appreciate your objectiveness in considering that as a possible reason for my not posting here and not jumping to the conclusion that I wasn't speaking up simply out of a desire to dig my heels in and prevent Patriot from getting what he wanted.

Part of me supports his getting his master's degree. I have not avoided discussing it with him out of a desire to prevent him from getting what he wants. I have avoided discussing it with him because I am torn and don't know how to negotiate when I don't have a clear starting point when the things that I want regarding this topic are torn in so many opposing directions.


Reasons I want Patriot to go to school:

I want him to go to school because he has a brilliant mind and school is an opportunity for him to expand it.

I want him to go to school because I am proud of him and of his goals and accomplishments.

I want him to go to school because he enjoys it.

Fears I have about Patriot going to school:

I have an extremely difficult time finding an emotional connection with Patriot. School will take up an enormous amount of time. Less time means less opportunity for an emotional connection between us to take place.

Things between us are often strained now and there often exists a great deal of tension. I fear adding school to our lives during Recovery will affect the amount of time, energy, emotional capacity and leftover attention he has for Recovery. I fear it will leave little time at the end of the day to spend bonding with him. I fear the strain it will add to our already strained marriage. I feel insecure about his meeting new people.

I find it difficult to view obtaining his master's degree as something that will benefit myself and my children in the future. It won't be any benefit to me at all if we are not together anymore. Right now I am more concerned about staying together than whether or not the degree will add a few extra dollars to his paycheck. The financial portion of it is completely irrelevant to me. Regarding Financial Support, my love bank is overflowing.

Patriot started working on his master's degree not long after D-Day. I felt abandoned during this time. I fear that happening again.

I also fear standing in the way of his personal goals and of him sacrificing what he wants and later being resentful of it.

I also fear that if I agree and get on board with the decision for him to go to school that I will be resentful of it later (while he is gone). I don't think it would be fair of me to agree with it and then later feel resentful.

Lots of conflicting thoughts and feelings for me...

Do you understand why I am so torn?

bumping in hopes to get some assistance resolving this.

I understand why you're so torn.

A couple of things:

First, can we assume Patriot didn't sign up for classes this Fall?


Am I right in assuming that what you're looking for isn't simply an offering of a quantity of time (ie. the schedule of 15 hours that Patriot suggested)?

What types of things help you feel connected? Do you think if you did feel connected, you'd still have the same objections/resentments to him going to school (I'd assume not since you have a lot of reasons why you are in favor of it)?

Can you make a plan now, together, that addresses your concerns about connections and the quality of time together in the hopes that in the future things can pan out and he can attend classes?

I'm thinking he might be enthusiastic about working on all of that if it meant he can go back to school when all is said and done (provided it actually gets done and not just said). Throwing time at the problem for the sake of time isn't going to help -- you it's what you do with that time that is important.

So, let's start with a list from you -- what sorts of behaviors are you looking for to feel connected?


Mys

I don't see much difference btwn working and going to school. Patriot is growing as an individual. Such "better" individual is a part of your life and will benefit you and your family in many ways other than just financial. It's a struggle and a sacrifice but POJA is a negotiation tool as well. He CAN understand and grasp your apprehension and perhaps as a result follow through on the commitments he and you "negotiate" to reach POJA on the this issue more effectively and enthusiatically himself.

I've talked to you guys before about a Sunday night meeting to make your schedules for the week. If the hours can be carved out and stuck to (and Patriot turns off that addictive X-Box)...POJA could work here.

Now IMO, perhaps a light load should be considered.

Frozen...you have a son and a daughter...how would you feel about them being in any relationship or marriage where their partner tried to restrain them from continuing their educations? Don't you want to see your children continually develope to be more intelligent and productive members of society? Why wouldn't you feel the same about your husband?

Your comments about not being sure you'll be married down the road sound a tad like a "renter" attitude. You guys both seem so nice and fun loving. In my estimation you guys are perfect for each other. You both have your issues and without each other and the situation you are in you likely BOTH NEVER would have addressed or resolved them. I can't for the life of me see how you two can't both commit to forever despite the difficulties which YOU WILL BOTH eventually overcome. It's called "faith".

I sincerely hope you can POJA this. If you can't, I don't think Patriot should go this semester but with the POJA'ed agreement that NEXT semester...you are enthusiatic about it. Not enthusiatice "IF", but enthusiatic NOW. POJA about next semester NOW may be a good way to minimize or eliminate any bitterness for the next few months so the actual extra time can be spent together resolving and deepening your intimacy actually instead of handling resentment and fear that this will NEVER end.

Sorry if I said anything offensive...you know where my heart is...it's just my opinion. lol

Mr. Wondering

Frozen:

I wonder if what you are looking for is to be your husband's exclusive "focus" for a while. To be the thing he pursues ardently, passionately, consistently.

I know that is what I needed desperately after d-day. My husband had always been a person who vigorously pursued what he wanted/was interested in -- whether it was another degree, a new job, a new friend, a new hobby.

After we were married, I watched as he pursued lots of different things, with that same ardor. But not me. I was already won. It was like his work with me was ended.

Yes, we spent lots of time together, but it was time when he had nothing else scheduled. He didn't actively plan time with me. I was just the fill-in for when there was no "important" stuff happening. I always felt like the "default" setting -- the thing he fell back on when he was not actively choosing something else.

After d-day, that no longer cut it. If I wasn't the most important thing in his life, I wasn't going to be his wife. End of discussion.

And he made that happen, without me even needing to ask. For the 18 months after d-day I don't think he did anything much except pursue me. No classes, no 12 hours a week of martial arts, no second job, no extended gym work-out sessions, no nights out with his friends, no hours-long computering.

He cleared the decks to focus exclusively on me and our marriage and kids. He went to IC and we went to MC, he read books, discussed whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. He asked constantly what I was feeling and listened, really listened to the answers. He planned outings for us, and classes to take together. Everything we did, we did together for those first 18 to 20 months.

And when I was convinced and felt secure of him and his commitment/feelings about me and the marriage, I was the one who encouraged him to start again on his solo pursuits.

Oddly enough, some of those formerly solo pursuits of his now include me. And ditto for the things I used to do without him. We've learned we really like spending time together. Quality, focused time. I consider that a gift.

Tru

myschae:



No. He is going.



You are completely correct.



No, I don't believe I would. The presence of school isn't so much the issue to me as what I feel is missing.


Complete openness and honesty about his thoughts, feelings, activities, history, etc...

For him to want and need my time and to miss me when I am gone.


Mr. Wondering:



I don't either. I would have the same issues if he came to me and decided to take another job.



You misunderstand if you think I am trying to restrain him from continuing his education. I never said that was what I wanted.

Regardless of what he wants to do now (school), something else will be along. It has been the same issue, different topic...school, online gaming, an affair - always something he wants to fill his time with other than me.


Of course I want those things for my children. I wouldn't want them to obtain those things at the expense of their marriage, however.



I agree. What exists that tells me I should feel otherwise? Are you saying that I should stay in this relationship no matter how I am treated? I wish I would have waited until we were actually Recovered before we married. I didn't.


Faith? He will not even come clean about the A. Am I just supposed to have "faith" that someday he'll decide to practice the PORH?



I am not offended, Mr. Wondering. I know where your heart is and I appreciate it. You don't have to understand my position or agree with it.

TruBluz:



That does sound nice.



This is precisely how I feel. It has been this way since I met him...long before we ever married. In fact, he never has.


It would have been nice if this were the case. I do have to ask. If I ask, sometimes he will remember to do it and sometimes he won't. What often happens is that he will do it just long enough for me to quit asking and then it goes back to the same patterns.

It would also be nice if it weren't done specifically to please me, but because he wanted it to. This is not the case. I have complete freedom in this relationship to come and go as I please, work as early or as late as I choose, spend as much time away from him and away from home as I wish, without it ever affecting him. I would like to feel needed and wanted. Instead, I feel sort of irrelevant. No matter how long I stay gone, he doesn't ever seem to get to a point where he gets upset about it or misses me enough to ask me to come home.

I have asked for pursuit for so long it has now become a word that infuriates him.

Frozen


Oh. That changes things quite a bit. Thank you for clarifying that.

I know it's not what you wanted but I am curious as to how the scheduled 15 hours is going so far? Is it too early to tell or has he been available during the times he indicated he would be available?

Do you want to try to use that time to create closeness? Is it time you can have together as uninterrupted couple time or are there other things that get in the way of it?


I think this would be vague to a lot of people (I find it vague, for example).

Let's break this down:

Can you give me an example of the types of thoughts you wish he were more open about? I imagine you don't mean thoughts like: "Gee, I really need to use the bathroom."

What thoughts are you looking for and are you sure that he's thinking them. (It's hard to be open about thoughts you aren't having. Like if I asked you to be radically honest about all the thoughts you've had in the last couple of days about fruit flies... there might just not be a whole lot there.)

What feelings are you looking for and are you sure that he's feeling them?

What activities do you mean? What dynamics are associated with this? Does he come home at random times and then fill you in on what he was doing (does he need to call more often)? Does he loose track of time? Can you be very specific about what you'd like to know and how far in advance you'd like to know it. For example:

- I'd like to know before you decide to go to a seminar that you're going. Call first.

- I'd like to know before you go to the store on the way home in case I need something.

- I'd like to know before you finalize dinner plans or as soon as you make plans.

- I'd like a copy of your class schedules and syllabus's so I can anticipate when you might be busy studying for a test.




Again, how would you know if he missed you? What actions demonstrate that to you? Would he call you out of the blue? Send you emails? Schedule and plan dates (maybe during your 15 hours)? Would he tell you that he missed you?

I'll tell you something my H and I did for a while for a problem like this. I was feeling somewhat neglected and, like you, unwanted. I felt that my H didn't really listen to me, didn't like listening to me and NEVER thought about me when I wasn't directly in front of him. (Yes, DJ land, I know.. it was way before MB).

Anyway, it's really, really hard for someone to prove what they're thinking when you're there much less when you're not even around! He swore up and down that he DID think of me but I didn't believe him. Which has to be frustrating on his end, too.

What we worked out was that he would listen to our conversations -- and about twice a month he'd go out and surprise me with some small item I'd mentioned (nothing expensive.. things like letter openers, dish soap, cd's, whatever...) If he managed to do that, then I'd stop badgering him about whether or not he REALLY remembered me or was just saying that.

It worked. He remembered to bring me things -- it was completely random so it wasn't another scheduled thing and yet there was specific detail about how much was enough. I did feel better because it was clear with many of the items that he had paid some attention to what I said and that he did think of me when I wasn't around.

Now maybe that wouldn't work for you -- but I'm thinking of something that specific because just saying "reassure me you want to be around me" tends to make a lot of men start edging towards the door. They have no idea what that means in any kind of practical terms.

Is there any practical thing he can do (subject to his agreement, of course) that would demonstate to you that you are important?


Just an aside. This is kind of a dangerous thought pattern because it seems to indicate that you wish he was a fundamentally different person. It's just like saying "I wish she just understood that I love her, I married her, didn't I?" Patriot expresses himself in different ways than you do -- he experiences love, longing, etc differently than you do. It doesn't make him broken, it just makes him different. Those differences mean there needs to be accommodations but if what you really want is a different man -- well, then you'd have to find a different man. You know what I mean?

Mys

He has not begun class yet, so it's too early to tell.



That would be nice.

Yes, there are other things that get in the way of it being uninterrupted time.



While I may have been vague with you, I have been very specific with him.

Thoughts and feelings that I am looking for regarding honesty & openness from Patriot:

I am worried that you are upset with me about spending not time with you this evening (which even communicated as simply as "Are you okay with my working on this project tonight?" would give me something to work with.

It makes me feel as though my hands are tied when he worries about things like this without telling me. If I knew that's what was going on in his head, I could respond by letting him know that I am fine doing something on my own and he is free to have some alone time without worrying about how I feel about it. Instead, he guesses I am upset (which I often am NOT).

The end result is that he doesn't even enjoy the time to himself because he feels guilty.

If I weren't okay with it, I could let him know and he would have the opportunity to make arrangements to spend time with me at that time or time in the near future.

He keeps any negative emotions to himself and it leaves me feeling lost because I don't know how to respond when I don't know what's going on with him, feeling misled because he wasn't honest about how he felt, frightened because this practice periodically leads him to explode, usually in my direction. His outbursts scare me.



The negative ones. Those are the ones he hides and yes, I am positive that he feels them.



I'm getting the feeling that this thread implies that I want every second of his time and that I expect to know every thought that floats through his head.

What I want is to be a priority.

An example of being informed of his activities...

When we thought Patriot was going to be deployed to Afghanistan, he told me that he was leaving in March.

At a family function, he was having a conversation with someone he had never met. This stranger asked him when he was leaving. He said February. This was information I did not have.

Another example...

Patriot is leaving for two weeks for training in the near future. He presented this to me as something he had to do (which gave me the impression the Army was making him go and he didn't have a choice).

Later, I found out that there are, in fact, options. It is something he wants to do to advance his career (which is fine). There are also options available regarding when he goes. I didn't know that. He made the decision and I wasn't a part of it. It was presented to me as a done deal.



Yes, all of those things would demonstrate that to me. They are done, but they are done because I asked for them. It is fine for him to give me what I ask for, but can there not exist some times that HE asks for something from me besides to be left alone?

I feel unneccessary and not needed.

Of course, he will read this. I fear this information about how I feel will be used as ammunition to further hide his thoughts and feelings from me. If he knows that I have negative emotions, he will often be dishonest about how he feels in an attempt to change my feelings.

Froz,

I go through this with my W, job is more important than me, family, etc... I would recommend that Patriot get his priorities straight, inform you of what they are and then show you through actions that you are his #1 priority.

He hasn't responded to my last post, which by your posts hit the nail on the head. Soooooo

Come on Patriot, hike up your britches, lace up your boots, throw your pack over your shoulder and get busy! You are a big boy now, so start acting like one! Show your wife who and what is #1 in your life! Then prove it!

I can garauntee you the Army will send you a retirement check after you retire, but that's it. Once you retire you will be forgotten by the Army and most people you worked with. Your wife and family will be with you for life if you make them your #1 TOP Priority, if not you will be old, broken, and alone upon your retirement YOU CHOICE, Your call!

By the way, this is called entitlement, selfishness, and disrespect for your wife, the list goes on and on!

Frozen


I see.


Actually, that isn't the impression that I get at all. The impression that I get is that this isn't really all that much about time. It might not even be as much about pursuit or even desire as it is about prediction and security.

Most of what you wrote regarding activities or thoughts or feelings has to do with you feeling as though Patriot is completely unpredictable to you. You never know how he's going to act, what he's going to do, whether or not there will be some emotional 'cost' later such as resentment or anger, if an explosion is in your future.

Do you think that a high level of being able to predict Patriot's behavior/reactions is a large part of what you're seeking when you say closeness? I think that predictability really is a major, and often overlooked, trust builder. Predictability comes from consistency. Patriot doesn't sound very consistent. Sometimes he's happy by himself and sometimes he still can't relax because he's worried about you.

I also wonder how well he thinks he can predict your behavior/reactions. It almost sounds as though you feel that he relies upon predictions -- but those predictions/perceptions aren't your reality. So, in essence, it's like he's creating some reality FOR YOU that you don't live in and then you have to spend all kinds of time and energy dismantling that alternate reality.

It's easy for me to understand why you'd feel distant, not close, and heck, you might even doubt whether or not he's having a relationship with YOU or with who he thinks you are. That's a very lonely place to be.

I wonder if part of the reason you feel you aren't a priority and that you feel as though you aren't desired is because you're not even sure he's having a relationship with YOU, the living, breathing, flesh person rather than some construct of predictions that you're competeing against (and feel wrong to you when you find out about them)? (Which is not to say there aren't other reasons that you don't feel like a priority -- just wondering if that's a component.)

I'll stop here because I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just wondeirng if any of this 'feels' true to you or if I'm off on a totally other direction.


Maybe he's afraid to ask because he's worried you'll say No or react unfavorably. Maybe he's afraid to ask because he's afraid your feeligs will change in a negative direction towards him and he doesn't know how to manage that.

Hey, Patriot, where are you?

Mys

Patriot/Frozen:

My husband and I faced a lot of the same issues as you. I don't know how long you have been together, but we lived in this kind of horrible, stand-off state for 20 years. It was a pretty miserable existence.

I felt neglected and unvalued; he felt harassed and unappreciated.

Our MC suggested several things that worked very well for us. I've listed them below. A real hurdle we had to get over was convincing my husband that he had to share his feelings, including the negative ones. He simply couldn't see the need/value of doing it.

No matter how much the MC explained that I couldn't know him and love him for what he was if I didn't know what he felt, my husband still was unconvinced. Eventually he agreed to try sharing his feelings for two weeks, as a scientific experiement. The freedom that he got from letting things out rather than trying to hide/contain them was enough to convince him.

And on my end, I had to learn patience and to control my anger and frustration. The way I expressed those emotions only fed our issues. I did not stifle my feelings, but I did learn how to express them in ways that were not disrespectful.

Here are some of the other things the MC suggested to us:

1. That once a week, H plan something specifically for the two of you to do together and take care of all the details (babysitters, reservations, etc.).

2. That twice a week, H share with W a negative feeling that he has about something she has done or not done. And that W does her best to listen and mirror back to him without judgement, explanation or defensiveness.

3. That you each ask each other once per day, at different times, what the other is feeling. The person answering at that time must answer honestly and completely, and the asker must simply thank them for their answer without any other comment.

4. That both of you stop the unilateral decisions (like the two-week Army thing.)

5. Take up a new hobby/activity together. Golf, church work, walking, chess. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Something new for the two of you alone.

6. That you each ask the other for something out of the ordinary twice per week. Something small (backrub, or reading/typing a paper he's written) or something large. But something.

7. That the two of you draw up a set of boundaries, very specific ones, for both of you, regarding interactions with members of the opposite sex.

8. That W express, twice a week, a positive feeling for H. Do it in a formal way. Express appreciation for something he has done that you may previously have taken for granted.

9. Get up ten minutes earlier in the morning and have coffee together. Do this before the kids are up. If you are people of faith, end this ten minute interlude with a prayer.

10. Schedule your time for solo activies and be pretty rigid about keeeping to that schedule. Don't let your solo activities spill over into your together time. For instance, Patriot, don't bring out your books and study while you are watching TV together. Schedule your time for study and limit it to those times.


And my own suggestion. Read about conflict avoiding and the distancer pursuer dynamic, if you have not done so. If you are in a distancer/pursuer relationship, it means that both of you have intimacy issues, which was an eye-opener to me. In my extreme arrogance, I assumed that only my H (the distancer) had a "problem".

I hope something here will be useful to you. I remember being exactly where you two are. I felt it was pretty hopeless, and that we were simply incompatible. I was very wrong.

Good luck,
Tru

Eagle,
I have read your posts and I have a few debates brewing in my mind.


Whereas I agree that it doesn’t matter that I don’t want the 20 somethings and it is her that needs to be reassured of my actions and intentions, I don’t think the only way to reassure her and address her fears is drop everything because it is “too scary”. Quite possibly, I am taking the idea of conflict avoiding, and the fight against it, and turning it into something that helps me manipulate the situation? I don’t think so. I think it is valid for me to want things that do not explicitly include her. I can want a masters degree, but does that have to mean I don’t want her? I have been in the military for many years, so I like it and I have always strived for progression. It is who and what I was prior to her knowing me. Also, just from a personal stance, something that makes issues with the Army complex is that I did, in my previous marriage, drop something in favor of my marriage… and now I regret it. Not Frozen’s fault, but in being honest with myself, it does cause me anxiety to remember that regret and fear that I might ‘fail to learn from that example’.



No where in Dr Harley’s words or plans does it say I have to read her mind. In fact, ‘reading’ her mind is what WILL cause problems.. so I say you are incorrect. If she has not voiced a concern about something, how am I supposed to know? Guess?

No.

I refuse to guess because guessing has caused additional problems on our relationship, and frankly we have enough of them. She has communicated a concern about who I talk to in class, but I reassured her that I was going to school for just that… school. I have no desire to meet new folks and start new relationships. I only have a desire to get this degree and move forward with other plans for my life that she is fully aware of. I don’t do study groups. I don’t go to school events. I attend my class(es) at the specific time they are scheduled and then I go home.


I am still not seeing entitlement. I want something. She wants something. Oddly enough, the thing you say she wants, I want too. I have never made it a point to run roughshod over her in the name of my career. In fact, she has not had to endure much of anything in terms of my career as of yet(which I say because in the military, spouses have to deal with much worse than she has so far in terms of my career). Two weeks away for Army training. A few days here and there for business trips, many of which I take her on now. She has not had to endure 12-18 months of me being away. My point is this, I disagree that my general stance is if it is good for my career, then too bad for her. She has, however, had to endure extreme pain and suffering due to an affair. That I own and agree with. Work and Affair are not the same thing. I do understand that she has fears about things and frankly I don’t blame her. But, do all of her desires supersede mine? Do I not deserve an honest POJA for my desires as well? And no… what you quoted above does not sound like POJA… but it certainly seems like a start point.


How can this be right?? She doesn’t like something I want and I do the right thing and tell her about it, try to negotiate it and then when the negotiation goes nowhere, I have to wait for her to bring it up? I agree that Dr Harley says table an issue and come back to it, but I don’t know of any place he states let the partner bring it up from then on. Maybe I was a little nagging, but honestly, time was running out and it isn’t like I hit her with this idea just a few weeks ago. She has known for a while. But save all that, I am just supposed to wait for her to bring it up next time? 1)That sounds like making her responsible for my wants and needs in a way that has her deciding WHEN my wants and needs will get addressed… much less filled or killed. 2)I seriously doubt that Dr Harley envisioned POJA as a method of control for one spouse over the other. Enthusiasm, or lack thereof, is not a shield. If two people are in a relationship, and one initiates a negotiation with the other, then the initiator has done their job by making the desire known. It is now the opposing partner’s obligation to either discuss it at that moment, or state they can not talk about it right now and take the time to prepare for that very negotiation at a later date. The opposing partner is not justified in continually tabling a negotiation over and over. That is a method of control, and I say, not backed by Dr. Harley ideals.


Well.. possibly. As a rule she is usually NOT a Conflict Avoider. She has some valid fears backed up with trust issues. I understand where she is coming from and that I created a ton of problem in our marriage.


I don’t appreciate being lumped in with your wife like “oh great… another faulty human being”. I imagine, if you take that stance with her, she is not a big fan of it either. You seem to believe that the ONLY way to make my wife the #1 priority is to drop everything I am doing in life and focus only on her. I agree with some of the sentiment, but in practice, I think it is unrealistic to believe the bypassing of career progression actions shows her she is #1. Maybe I have it all wrong, but you might know that I was slated to attend Warrant Officer Candidate School, which would have meant 4 weeks away for training first and then several weeks(up to 24) of training to learn the job. I have effectively bypassed this career progression action. I would extend that this did NOT make her feel like she was #1. I think she was interested in making sure I didn’t do it in a sacrificing way for her so I could hold it against her later, but making her feel like a priority is not what it has seemed to do.



Is speaking up for what I want and desiring it entitlement? Selfishness? Disrespect? Or is it letting her know where I am at, what I want and allowing her to provide her input on the subject so WE can make a decision together? I have no control on when the semester starts and I will not hide that I want to go to school. In the face of that, I did EXACTLY what I am supposed to do. I told her of the desire in enough time to digest it and attempt negotiation of it. I did not tell her ‘gimme or else’. I did not tell her fine… I will do it regardless of your input. I asked her to discuss it with me. Time passed. A suspense had to be met. If not… then I would have not gotten something I was enthusiastic about.. but I wonder if the thinking is a WS shouldn’t get anything anyway?

Anyway… maybe this made sense. Maybe it didn’t. I hope I explained myself a bit.

The overall outcome to this issue is I am taking one class. It keeps me in the system, so to say and keeps some doors open for the future.

I really appreciate trubluz and mysch for their input. the advice and parallels are very helpful. I will go back and read those portions again.

Yes, yes, yes.



More yes-ness.


Yeah and I hate that he often (most often) doesn't even get to enjoy his time to himself because he's he feels guilty. I have even tried letting him know that I am okay with something he does that is separate from me It doesn't seem to reassure him.

I require a lot of alone time to recharge and quite often it is totally okay with me for him to do separate things.
I would feel even more okay with it if it didn't seem as though he was trying to hard to get away from me. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't and my perception is warped - who knows.

If he is, it makes sense that it would be because he never feels satisfied with his alone time because it is spent feeling guilty. I probably cling harder when it feels like he is trying to get away from me (which in that scenario, would be accurate).



Yeah. I get mad at him all the time for doing that, only I called it "assumptions". I'd rather just be asked. I would guess that he fears the answer - for a variety of reasons. I suspect that one of them is that if I have ANY negative emotion about something, the end result is guilt for him, even if my negative emotion is valid.

For example, I disagree with some of the things Eagle stated in his post. I don't believe it is wrong for Patriot to want to go to school. I never said that. In fact, I want him to have what he wants. I just have fears about it.

My having negative emotions means guilt for Patriot. Once he feels guilty, it seems as though any opportunity for understanding, support or reassurance flies out the window. He becomes emotionally unavailable to me at that point, which makes me feel abandoned, misunderstood and unsupported, unaccepted (more negative feelings), which fuels his guilt, etc...etc...

Vicious cycle.

It leaves us both feeling resentful in the end.


I feel like I can't win unless I paste on a pretty smile and have zero fear, zero negative feelings about anything, ever.

I couldn't do that if I wanted to.



I dunno. It didn't fit like a glove, but I will say that it doesn't aid in my feeling emotionally connected to him. In fact, it makes me feel rejected.

TruBluz,



I see how this is key.

That list is wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of that out. I'm printing it.

Quote: I don’t appreciate being lumped in with your wife like “oh great… another faulty human being”. I imagine, if you take that stance with her, she is not a big fan of it either. You seem to believe that the ONLY way to make my wife the #1 priority is to drop everything I am doing in life and focus only on her. I agree with some of the sentiment, but in practice, I think it is unrealistic to believe the bypassing of career progression actions shows her she is #1. Maybe I have it all wrong, but you might know that I was slated to attend Warrant Officer Candidate School, which would have meant 4 weeks away for training first and then several weeks(up to 24) of training to learn the job. I have effectively bypassed this career progression action. I would extend that this did NOT make her feel like she was #1. I think she was interested in making sure I didn’t do it in a sacrificing way for her so I could hold it against her later, but making her feel like a priority is not what it has seemed to do.End Quote

Patriot, you are a FWH, you did it you made it so. If you feel like a faulty human being so be it, your choice and the consequences of your choices. Live with it and get over yourself. You are an enlisted Army grunt, last time I checked the military does not require enlisted to have a BS let alone a Masters and no this will not cause you to stall your career. In the AF an enlisted guy with a Masters is looked at as a career student, not an integral part of the team. Certainly not a warfighter ready to go to the tip of the spear. In case you are wondering, I spent 6 years at HQAFSOC, dealing with JSOC and USSOCOM, I do know a little about the other branches. It is YOUR CHOICE to do this and if you read your Ws posts above you have your answers and an OPLAN, you would be wise to take another look at her posts and read them to understand them not refute them (sound familiar? comes from PME). As long as you continue to raise cain like a kid in the grocery store who wants soemthing and Mom says no you will get no where. This is the tone I see in your posts.

I see you wife giving you the answers in her posts, but you ignore them because they do not fall into you predetermined path of life. So I ask you these questions, you don't have to answer here, but it would be nice if you went over your answers with Froz.

Do you really want to be married?

Why?

What are you doing to rebuild your marriage?

What is your spouse doing to rebuild your marriage?

What are you doing that is hindering your goal of rebuilding your marriage?

What is your spouse doing that is hindering your goal of rebuilding your marriage?

I feel if you answer these questions honestly and after a lot of introspection you will be able to get over this hump. If you continue on the path you are on you will find destruction. Your choice, you call! I'm outa here!

Frozen


In your perfect world, what would he do about/with your negative emotions?

For example, if you say, "I feel hurt when you choose to play video games instead of spending time in conversation with me."

That's your truth. That's perfectly valid.

If you could flip a switch, what would you have him do with that information?

Now let's take this to a general case, I know you're probably looking for different reactions at different times. Describe as many as you can.)

In general, do you want him to: (sample list)

- use the information to understand why you might be in a funk/distant

- use the information to segue into negotiations for behaviors that you can be mutually enthusiastic about

- just change without negotiation or further comment

- use the information to avoid things that cause that feeling

- comfort you and give you a hug

- comfort you and give you <some other emotional need like SF, AF, etc>

- validate and acknowledge that he heard you and understands that you feel that way

- absorb the information and find some way to cheer you up..

- ?

Also, if you would want different responses (sometimes a hug, sometimes negotiation) how is he supposed to figure out the difference?

Mys