Thank you so much... you're right, he doesn't deserve us. I sometimes get so angry at myself for continuing to love someone who could treat his family this way. What kind of a man is this? For now, I will keep with it but am beginning to see that I may not want him in the end. It's so sad.

I have quite a bit to post but am trying to get my thoughts together so it makes sense. My DD13 wrote WS a letter and I am going to encourage her to give it to WS. I am also going to ask her if I can post it here for all of you to see. I feel so much closer to DD13 now. It was almost like I wrote it...without telling her what was in my mind, somehow she got it on paper but they were her thoughts. Absolutely amazing how articulate she was and WS REALLY needs to hear/see it from her.

Resilient, you are probably correct about DD12. I am going to talk to her about writing a letter too, same as DD13. They don't have to give it to him or let me see it, but it could be good just to get it out.

More later.....thank you all from the bottom of my heart. This is my life line right now.

Just scheduled an appt with SH. Awaiting confirmation. Sure hope he can help. I'm very discouraged today.

Have appt with Jennifer tonight. Wish me luck. I really need some direction today.

I've asked DD13 if I could post her letter to WH on this site to help other parents get an idea of what goes through the mind of children. She readily agreed. She has also decided to give this letter to WH if I ask him not to discuss it with her...she just wanted to get her feelings out. I am so proud of her, what an incredible child. I have not given her enough credit for her intelligence and maturity. Please read:

Dear Dad,
I am writing to you because I think you are being selfish and sometimes it feels like you just don't care about anyone's feelings but yourselfs and even if you say you don't love Mom, you can at least pay for tings. It really hurts me to know that you no longer live here and that you have a girlfriend. You say you miss me but if you really did, you wouldn't be doing this. This is the last thing I ever thought would happen to this faimly. You tell us you love us, but your actions tell me totally different and I don't feel I can trust your words at all anymore. I don't want Bubba to leave, I like to take care of him, but if you don't want to take care of us, then the least you could do is to take care of a dog.
Another sad thing about this all is in the end, you're not only hurting us and our trust but you're also hurting someone else's family. It's like you are a totally different person and I don't even know you and it hurts that you hardly even call and we only get to see you about an hour or just a day. But on the other hand, sometimes I feel like I shouldn't go with you and just totally shut you out of my life. But then I feel like I want you back and I'm only pushing you away. But how are we suppoed to forgive and forget? I feel like I can't trust you and I can't come to you. It's like I can't trust you to tell me the truth. It's just I miss you so much and I love you so much. It's so unreal that you're putting us through this. It's so mean of you to not help us get a house (do you not care where we live?), or not pay for school clothes. It's like we don't matter to you anymore. And it makes me so angry that you say we'll be fine when you're the one causing the pain. How do you know we'll be fine, you're not here! Somehow, I'll be fine, but things between us will never be. I trusted you with my whole heart and then you go and do something so stupid as this. It makes me mad that you were going to lie about it too! It's a nightmare and it's hard to believe it's true all because of you. I hope you feel ashamed of what you are doing because it is so wrong. You say you and Mom just grew apart. How do you just "grow apart"? When I see old people still together, why won't that happen to you and Mom? All because of you. And you're willing to throw away 15 years for about to months of dating "her."
It feels like you are throwing me away to. Are you? Why are you doing this?..and "I don't know" isn't an answer. If you don't know, then DON'T! I know that before you thought having an affair was wrong, but then why is it okay for you? Sometimes I think to myself, what could I have done to make you stay? One minute I'm so mad at you and then the next I just want to help. Why would you do this to us? Even though I'm mad at you, and upset, I still love you, and I hope you'll come back to us.

DD13



This just broke my heart....out of the mouths of babes!

Session with Jennifer went really well last night. Really helped me refocus and take a look at what I still had left in me. We determined that I had done a really good Plan A and that I should go to Plan B when I think it is right and am starting to lose love for him.
It is so reassuring to hear that his actions are typical. I think we start thinking that our situation is special and it really isn't.
I've decided to mark a date on the calendar and will evaluate at that time what the next step will be. Until then I will continue Plan A.
WH took kids bowling last night (how come he gets to be the "fun" parent?). When he came to pick them up, I was looking the best I could look and my daughters and I were playing volleyball and laughing and having a good time. When he brought them back I went out to have a quick conversation. DD12 had called me on the way home and told me a funny story that happened while they were bowling. I laughed with WH about this and then asked him if he was doing ok. He said "Yeah, I'm doing ok, I guess. How are you doing?" I said ok, good days and bad days. Then I said "I worry about you" I didn't really give him a chance to respond, just said goodbye and went back into the house.
I think I'll ask him to come for dinner this weekend with the girls and I. I think I've got some more Plan A in me. I hate his choices right now but I love the man.

Last night I gave the letter from DD13 to WH and asked him not to discuss it with her. That was her one condition to giving it to him. She doesn't want to have to face him about it. After WH left, I told DD13 that I had given him her letter. She seemed ok with it but than after she had been in bed for an hour, she came into my room crying and upset. She feels like she was mean in the letter and that he will treat her differently because of it. I tried to reassure her and tell her how important it was for him to know her feelings and she wasn't mean, just honest. She seemed ok when we were done although I'm sure her head was still full of thoughts.

Good work.

Please remind me (us) of what the separation details are regarding agreements, who's paying for what, etc. and whether all this is documented in some form of binding agreement. This all needs to be nailed down before Plan B, IMHO.

I recommend you not budget too much more time in Plan A. Most Plan A's last too long, IMHO. Once the separation agreements are nailed down and you've had ample opportunity to demonstrate your personal fixes to the extent your H will allow, there's little reason to continue Plan A - it just gives you more opportunity to screw it up. I kept it up for a year which was about 9 months too long.

JMHO

WAT

The lawyer suggested I go about this the "nice" way first. I just sent WH an email asking him to sit down this weekend and work out an official agreement. After we get these details written down, they need to be signed and notarized. I can then file this document with the courts so there will be some recourse if one of us doesn't follow through with what we promised. Such as if he doesn't pay me the monthly amount we agree to, I can get his checks garnished. I can file all of this myself and pay the fees and not have lawyers involved. If there gets to be too much arguing and we can't agree on points then we can do a sep agreement through the lawyers, but it can get pretty expensive. I will post before I file for input from you all.

I have decided to Plan A through the end of this month (September). H will be gone hunting for over a week so it won't really be that long. Until that time I will do my best Plan A. I've invited him for dinner and time with the girls and I on Sunday. I haven't received his answer yet. I did Plan A from 06/25/06 through now but I didn't know about the A until 08/02/06 and didn't have concrete details about the depth of the A until 08/22/06. After 08/02/06 I was extremely emotional, not angry but really crushed. . Couldn't stop crying and told him how much pain I was in, etc. On 08/22/06 I exposured to everyone. So I'm not sure I've put in enough Plan A after the affair and the exposure to be a good alternative.

I'm working on my Plan B letter today and will post that also when I'm finished.

Thank you so much for the input and checking up on me.

here <~~~link

I'd like to save this letter to another Plan A thread I have going on JustFound Out forum ... is that OK with you?

Pep

Don't sacrifice being firm at the expense of being nice.

One of the very few things that a WS responds to is consequences.

The official agreement is a perfect vehicle to dole out consequences.

Put your children and you first. I recommend you DO NOT open the bidding on equal footing. Just be "nice" in the delivery.

Foxy: OK, honey, we need $2000/month support because the kids will be staying with me full time and you know how much they eat and I'll need help from babysitters and etc., etc., etc. and would you like a sandwich?

Get my drift?

WAT

Pep,

You are welcome to share on the other thread. Very seldom do we get a peek at what goes on in a 13 year old head! Hope it can help someone else.

I absolutely get your drift, WAT. That's my plan but as we all know, it is easier said than done. I WILL DO IT.

Yes, it is MUCH easier said than done.

You have a tremendous asset in your 13 yo daughter. My son was 12 when my wife moved out and I believe if he had written something similar things would have been vastly different. Not that I now want to go back.........

You have a good head. Keep using it.

WAT

Fox

I'm still here. Just had a busy week.

Don't know if you caught this thread by Ark about Plan A.

link to it -----> CLICK HERE

Hopefully the separation agreement can be done in short order. Then it is often recommended to let the separation, as agreed, settle in for a couple weeks before Plan B. It gives the WH just a hopeful glimpse of "See this is all working out so amicably for all involved" before BLAM, Plan B and you take control of your life.

Of course, if WH drags out the separation agreement "negotiations" then you may find it impossible to wait that long.

Use his sense of urgency to get things resolved and his likely conflict avoidance desires against him to get the best terms for you and your kids. Like WAT said, nice language but start the negotiations with very favorable, if not outrageous, terms. Find out from your attorney what the child support tables state you are entitled to. It may be more than you think. By being cooperative and saving attorney's fees you should end up better off than you'd otherwise be entitled to in court. Don't work your butt off to compromise just to save HIM attorney fees and costs.

Mr. Wondering

HELP!!

I sent email to WH telling him about DD13 and that she wanted him to have the letter and didn't want him to talk to her about it. He is insistant that he is going to talk to her about since she "thinks" he is lying and he is not the bad guy here! He asked how much they knew and I said everything. He now wants to introduce them to her! and have them spend the night at "their" house!!!! What do I do?! Supposedly, he wants them to make their own decisions on whether to like her or not. How do I protect them from this!!!!!! HELP! I can't believe this man would do this to his daughters!!!!!

He will not sit down with me and work out a separation agreement. He said the lawyers are going to do all that. And that his lawyer told him not to pay ANYTHING since that would be a debt paid and then he would be responsible for it. I asked when I was going to be served and he said he didn't know. I can't afford to pay these things on my own! Is there any way for me to find out when I will be served or who is lawyer is?

I think today is Plan B day! What do you all think? I guess I'll have to email the letter since I won't be seeing him and if I mail it to him, OW will have it.

Please help.

No, today is not Plan B day.

Two ways to go on him introducing your daughters to OW.

1. You dictate "absolutely not." In the absense of a separation agreement, you will not agree to this. (In developing the separation agreement, you should put in a restriction for no over nights visits by a member of the opposite sex whenever either parent has the children - assuming you're not successful in having full custody.)

2. Leave it up to your daughters. This is not necessarily a bad thing. They may hate her or vice versa.

Regarding the letter, let the chips fall where they may. He hasn't a chance with your daughter.


Don't ask him any questions about this at all.

Get an attorney ASAP.

JMHO

WAT

Here is my Plan B letter. Although today I don't even want to send it. I feel like I HATE him! How could he do this, especially to his daughters!?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Dear WS,

I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we’re in. I never imagined this would happen to us.

I know that you’ve been unhappy for a while, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I’m aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I’ve worked very hard these past couple of months to make myself a better wife, mother, and person. The changes I’ve made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially DD13 and DD12. We’re closer now than ever. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become.

I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our daughters’. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said “I do”. I’m not naïve, I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.

I’ve suffered tremendous pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, learning about your relationship with OW and dealing with impending divorce, but I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.

I do not want this divorce. I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the mother of your daughters, it is simply too painful. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for emergencies regarding DD13 and DD12. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips away. If you want to see them, call them and ask them. I will let them know if we have other plans and they can let you know. I will not encourage or discourage them in spending time with you or talking with you. Your relationship with them is what you are making it, it is your responsibility.

As always, I will continue to be the best mother I can be and do whatever is necessary to insure our daughters’ happiness and make their lives as fulfilling as possible.

If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what we only dreamed it could be, but I will need to know you are committed to our marriage and assurance that OW is no longer a part of your life. I still love you, and as I said before, I believe in our marriage and I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.

All my love,

BS

I really don't feel like sending this to WH. I feel like telling him to stick it up his [censored]! If he wants to behave this way than he can deal with the consequences and completely lose his family!

AARRGGG!!!

WAT,

How can I dictate absolutely no meeting her? When he takes them I have no control over what he does. It sounds like there will be no separation agreement. He stated that he has a lawyer (he gave me the name) and that everything will be decided through the courts.

I forgot I wasn't supposed to ask any questions about the D. It just freaked me out when he said that. He is essentially Plan Bing me....he doesn't want to have anything to do with me.

You're right, he doesn't have a chance with my daughter. And I feel so horrible that she has to go through this and I can't stop it.

And.......when we started talking about DD13 letter and the fact that he was going to talk to her about it even though she didn't want to (which I'm afraid means she won't trust me anymore because I encouraged her to give it to him), he said "I'm not saying she did write the letter, I'm not saying she didn't but...."

He thinks I wrote the frigging letter!!! GEEZ!!!

I told him he needs to do right by his daughters and make good decisions for them...and he started to say something about "well, then I'll just move back in and be miserable..." and I didn't even let him finish. I just said "at this point, I don't want you back the way you are today".-----LB but I couldn't help it. It so easy to plan what I am going to say and how I am going to react and then he just gets to me and I forget it all in the heat of the moment. And I can't stop crying when I talk to him!!!

FOX take a deep breath, and tell your DD13 about the conversation, with her dad, just be honest with her, don't let him interogate her, if he does I think it will be child abuse.
your DD13 trusts you don't break her trust, just tell her the truth. today.k?