How many times can it go back and forth between petitioner and respondent? If I'm going to fix all his errors and then counter his requests....does he then get 20 backs to me and so on and so forth? At what point does it end and go to a judge?

I know...questions for my attorney, but I can't see him until Sunday (and I will ask these questions). There is so much going through my head and I'm trying to find the best possible way to deal with this and the best possible outcome for my daughters.

Wow, Resilient. Thanks for the kind words. I'm sorry you had to go through all of that.

I was surprised that WH had all the dates correct. He NEVER remembers birthdays, mine or the kids. And our anniversary was always tough for him to remember. Seemed to be on the tip of his tongue that day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> These dates always were very important to me and they never quite seemed special enough.

Wow, I can't believe your H filed on your b-day. Are they really that hurtful or just plain stupid and don't think?

Our 14th anniversary is on Oct 17. I just feel pathetic. Thirty-two years old and in the middle of a divorce. Pathetic.

Foxy - we're with you and you can rely on our support. I don't think I'm overstepping my bounds to speak for the others here.

You haven't mentioned it (unless I missed it) but I can imagine you're hearing the ca-ching in the background regarding all this legal maneuvering. I wish I had a recommendation for this, but I don't.

Do ask your lawyer about the wisdom of counter filing. Ask how best to name OW in the documents. Ask whether deposing OW is in order. Involving her may require you counter file on the basis of adultery - I'm speculating. I the least you ought to be able to respond - as I did in my divorce - that the real reason is NOT irreconcilable differences, but rather the extramarital affair between you H and OW. That this prevents any reasonable attempts of reconciliation. I named OM as my wife's infidelity partner and you can look it up on the public records. My lasting gift to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In the least you should be able to stipulate no overnight custody visits when the parent has anyone of the opposite sex in attendance until final divorce or re-marriage.

Hang tough.

WAT

This is a no-fault state. It doesn't matter why, adultery or otherwise. If one wants out, they can get out. I will ask that question and see what I get in response. I would LOVE her name to be in the docs as a reason.

More points against the WH that I have noted in my journal. After hearing how upset his DDs were last night, you would think any good parent would cut their trip short and come back to comfort his girls. Not from this "father of the year". He's too busy with "me" time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I do hear the ca-ching in the background but I know WH is too. My employer is behind me 100% and willing to do whatever we need to do to work it out. Job security, I guess. They'll have to keep me so I can pay it back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> WH is not so lucky. He better dig deep....."****** hath no fury like a woman scorned", especially one out to protect her kids.

I was glad WH called last night and had to hear the girls crying. He needs to hear that..they aren't "fine". They aren't happy because daddy is "happy". What a fool. He will never be the man he once was to them. Shame.

As far as deposing OW, I could ask for that based on the welfare of the children, etc. I'll have to work that in somehow. That would be so great, to have her deposed. hahahaha

No overnight stays with opposite sex.....I am going to be an absolute stickler on that one!

I'm just so tired.

They are "addicted". They rarely have a conscience when it comes to spouses and sadly at times even their children, when in an affair. Much like a crack addict.

You'll hear this addict comparison alot here, as Harley tells us this is why they are capable at times of such heinous actions.

Jo

What happened in your sitch, Resilient? Are you divorced or in recovery?

Thank you for the support.

I don't think it matters if it's a no fault state. I'm not an attorney, but you are required to answer the "charges" and in your pleadings you can disagree with the irreconcialable differences "charge". That's where - in the least - you work in OW's name and your "opinion" that it was their affair that is what's really irreconcialable.

WAT

I am divorced, Hon.

But please understand that my situation was very severe. 2 OWs and 2 OCs, where my H left me while I was in stage 3 cancer treatments and OW harrassed me during that time as well.

Not all marriages should be saved, and I believe mine was one of them.

I will tell you that in the 6+ years on this site I have seen hundreds of on-the-brink of divorce marriages saved and recovered by Harley's principles. This stuff works!

Jo

Although the issue of adultery and OW's name might not be admissable in open court with regard to the dissolution of the marriage in the pleadings you can say anything you want.

In addition, OW's name is relevant to the custody issue and perhaps she specifically as well as all non-blood related woman can forbidding from spending the night, etc.

You can also get OW's name in (and likely depose her too) with regards to the money he's spent on her. The marital asset fight requires full DISCOVERY. Her bills and expenses need reconciling with your husbands to see what went where and why. Another benefit of DISCOVERY...it takes time. It's part of the delaying strategy. In some states you could delay it well over a year. Remember, affairs have a limited life span, even if you end up divorced you don't want him remarrying HER, further, if they were ever to have kids hopefully they'd wait until your divorce was final and they could remarry, and finally, as long as the divorce is pending....they will love bust each other about it...tremendous pressure on the infidels. If you are in a dark Plan B...not so much pressure on you.

Mr. Wondering

That would be great, WAT. I've added that to my growing list of things to discuss with the attorney. I hadn't thought about it as being part of answer to the "charges". Excellent point.

I am feeling much better than I was earlier. It did seem like the end of the world last night. It is so hard to keep it together sometimes but I know that it is not good for my girls to see me lose it. They can see me stumble and pick myself up and carry on, but I have to pick up and carry on.....I have to remember that I am teaching them as I go through this too. It's okay for me to be sad but then I have to carry on.

Mr. Wondering, you must have been posting while I was yesterday. I completely missed your post until now. I have spent the day pulling documents together, updating my journal, etc to be prepared to meet with the attorney. Oh, yeah, I worked in between all that.

Thank you so very much for the information. WH is so set on this taking 30 days to settle. I know his fog is to thick to get through by then. All this information will really help in delaying until he can see through a little of the fog. A LITTLE bit of logic from him would be helpful.

I'm just praying that judge will understand how detrimental it would be for the children to live in that situation. They are getting so close to the dating age and this A and D can really affect how they think they should be treated and what is "normal" behavior in a relationship.

I continue to work on myself and improve who I am as a human being.

As I was reading through the prior posts on my thread, I found something interesting: WH filed for divorce on 08/31/06, that evening I gave him the letter from DD13. I didn't know at the time that he had filed for D. I wonder what was going through his head as he read that letter, knowing he had filed that same day. Timing is everything...

Of course, he is not thinking "logically" at this point so maybe nothing was going through his head at all.

Talked to attorney #2 yesterday. I REALLY liked him. He seems to be very thorough and willing to play hardball if we have too. According to him, WH attorney likes to settle. According to many people I have talked to, WH could not have picked a worse attorney. We'll see.

I'm setting up a counselor for DDs today. DD12 is just not dealing with it at all. Way too bottled up.

I requested that in my response the OW be named. The attorney HIGHLY recommended against this. He said he will do it if I want him to but the judge make look at it as being overzealous and it could go against me. Any opinions?

We are also getting an emergency injunction to force WH to pay for family support. Attorney said this can go as fast or as slow as I want it too. I told him I wanted to delay as much as I could and he is willing to do that. He recommended I make sure to go the parenting class and not to try to postpone it. This particular judge frowns heavily on that....the children should come before everything.

Attorney was impressed with all my documentation..journals, WH/OW lease agreement etc...was NOT, however, impressed with my emails to WH company. I will be providing him with copies today as he is sure WH attorney will bring that up. I explained to him the reason for the emails was to end the affair, etc etc. I got the "well, from a legal standpoint". I told him I wasn't looking at it from a legal standpoint regarding divorce, I was trying to save my marriage and the first thing to go had to be the A. I think he got it...didn't agree from a legal standpoint but I didn't expect him to. I'm not afraid...the emails were not threatening or shameful or anything.

Attorney seems to think I have a very good chance at primary custody. No guarantees, of course, but it makes me feel better to hear it from someone who has had experience in these types of cases.

I've also found a new house...going through the application process now. It's closer to town, school, work, friends, family, etc and we can still have our pets and horses. Higher rent but I will save alot in gas for my truck and power bills. The house we live in now is an old farmhouse and is not very efficient. Cross your fingers for me.

WH returned from hunting yesterday. DD13 had told WH we were going to a baby shower at 3 and wouldn't be back until closer to 5. He called and left a message at 4. ??? I didn't even listen to the message. He didn't bother calling after that either. He had told DDs on Wednesday when he heard them crying and upset that when he got back they were the first people he would see. I guess he didn't have time.

My attorney recommended that I not let him take them. Invite him to come there and spend time with them but until the emergency injunction barring him from introducing them to OW is complete, he should not be allowed to take them. That's going to be hard, especially if they want to go with him. Legally I can't keep them from him. He could take them anytime he wanted to, depending on how big of a scene he wants to throw. I'd hate to see that happen. But I also don't feel like I can appeal to his common sense (since he doesn't have any) and ask him to wait until they meet with the counselor a few times and see what she says.

Your should rely on your attorney for legal advice. If he says not to name OW "overzealously" then don't...however, I think she could be named quite easily in the financial part as his paramour ("illicit lover"). Such indication there will get the message across while you are stating YOU should not have to bear ANY burden/debt incurred in furtherance of the affair. Then you are documenting her but NOT being particularly "overzealous" with it.

Very common for divorce attorney to not like the MB exposure letters. You handled him well with that regard. By the time a custody decision is made, the exposure letter will be ancient history and it's purpose was pure. That intention is clear in the content.

Remember to hide behind the attorney's advice. You'd personally love to see WH take the kids but your attorney has advised against it for now until some issues are made clear in the court. I'd discuss further with him how to handle things if WH demands contact and kids want it. If he promises to not introduce OW to them and then breaks that promise it may actually behoove your custody case. Confirm any oral promises in writing (by email or otherwise) for documentation purposes as they will be denied otherwise.

Mr. Wondering

Hmm...why didn't I think of that? I consider myself to be a fairly intelligent person but I hadn't thought about these points. I'm so wrapped up in all of this that my mind doesn't seem to function like it should.

WH called this morning and said ( [color:"blue"] [/color] ), "Just wanted you to know I hadn't forgotten about you, I'm working out my money and I'm going to try to get you some." He hasn't forgotten me? How nice, cause I sure feel forgotten and abandoned. Then he asked if the kids were ok. How the heck do I answer that? No! They are not ok, their dad walked out on them! I told him they are hanging in there and that I was setting them up for counseling this week and that I was especially worried about DD12.

He asked if I had plans tonight (which is a setup for "can I take the kids?". ) I said yes, we were going to my mom's. Then he asked about this weekend. I told him I didn't know what my plans were right now. He asked if he could have the kids for the whole weekend. (see, set up) I asked if OW was going to be there. WH said she would be. I said in that case, no, they cannot stay with you. You are welcome to come out to the house and spend as much time with them as you like but they are not emotionally ready to meet her or to be involved in that situation. He then asked if he could take them tomorrow evening for a little while, I said I didn't know what my plans were but would let him know. I told him he needed to promise not to introduce them to OW until they get through some counseling and we have a feeling for what they can handle. He agreed. (Yeah, I know what you are thinking here and I won't be fooled by verbal "promises"). I asked him to please be careful with them. He said (offended) "I always am" I said, "not just physical safety wise but emotionally and mentally." He insists that he is careful that way too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I told him my attorney recommended that I not let him see them at all during the week, but I felt they needed to see him and vice versa but I needed to protect them as much as possible. He takes such offense to that phrasing, because I am protecting them from him and he doesn't think he is something they should be protected from. I then asked if he would please email me or write down his promise not to introduce them to OW.

Again, he gets all offended. "Why? Is my word not good enough?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Is he kidding? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I said, "should it be?"
He said "This is about our kids, BS" Oooooh, I didn't know he set boundaries for his lies. Silly me.
I said "the whole thing effects the kids"
He said, "I'll do it, if that's what you have to have"
I said "Thank you, I appreciate that. It would make me feel better"
He said "I'll do anything to see my kids."

I was getting pretty tired of the "my kids" line, he had used it frequently during the conversation...I didn't respond to it but it bugged me. Funny how they are "his" kids but he isn't supporting them in any way and is causing them such pain and anguish. And I never said he couldn't see them if he didn't write or email his promise not to introduce them to OW, he just assumed it.

I also asked him not to pressure DD13 about calling his mother. He said he didn't, he just said she could if she wanted to. I told him I have told her the same thing, but his mother is the adult in their relationship and she should be making the effort to check on their well-being, not the other way around. I told him that if his mother were to call and want to speak with them or have them stay with her, I would welcome that. She has done nothing. I've always felt she was PA and now she is waiting for my daughter to call and comfort her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

After asking WH for email or written confirmation about DDs not having contact with OW or OW S6 this is what he sent for an email:

"I'll do what you want. I'll do anything for the girls.If you let me see them, The girls and I will go do something."

This was my response to him via email:

"To reassure me that you will do as you promised on the phone today, I need from you specifically: " I will not have DD13 and DD12 meet or have contact with OW or her son, until such time as their counselor determines they are emotionally and mentally prepared to do so and the custody arrangements for DD13 and DD12 have been settled by the courts"

I am not keeping DD13 and DD12 from you, I have not said you can't see them. I know they need you and I will not stand in the way of that. But I need you to reassure me that they will not be put through further mental and emotional anguish while they are with you. They are not ready to be introduced to your new family yet. I'm hoping the counselor can help us figure out when that would be and help DD13 and DD12 deal with some of their feelings and help them get through this in the best way possible. You are always welcome to come out to the house and spend time with them also. Like I said on the phone today, DD13 has a ton of homework and spends many hours at night working on it. I'm sure she would love you to come help her or check it for her when she is done or just BE with her. DD12 would like the same or to have you play games, etc. ANY time, doing ANY thing means so much to them. If it makes you more comfortable, I would be willing to leave the house while you are there with them. I, too, will do anything for the girls and their happiness.

You promised not to have them around OW on the phone today but unfortunately, I can't trust your spoken word right now. That's why I am asking for you to write or email it. I want to trust you, I really do, but I can't be played for a fool anymore. DD13 and DD12 are my utmost concern and I want to do what is best for them."

Any thoughts on how I could have handled this better? I haven't heard from him since I sent this yesterday (although he did call and talk to DDs last night). I'm thinking he may be talking to his lawyer and deciding what to do. Or maybe he is talking to OW and getting advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I don't think this is an unreasonable thing to ask for. I feel WH was trying to make it look like I was blackmailing him to be able to see the girls and that is not what it was about at all. I never said he wouldn't be able to see them if he didn't give me that confirmation, he assumed it.

Fox, stop using words that normalize his sleazy affair. Is OW married? Sorry, can't remember. If she is substitute "mrs.blank and her son" for your new family. Ugh, say that outloud and imagine how those words will feel to your kids.

FF,

Yes, OW is married. I have to be careful what I say to him in emails as I'm sure he will take them to his lawyer so I try not to be antoginistic and give the judge something to think poorly of me about. I'm sure WH took "your new family" that way, anyway. Any other time I've said he's replaced us or said your new family he gets ticked and says he has not moved on and has not replaced us, etc, etc. FOG!

Pretty good email.

Remember, to OW YOU are her biggest threat. In the back of her mind she fears WH reconciling with you. Making him come to your home to see the kids, which you stated very reasonably, was good. Even if you don't get the chance to Plan A him, OW does NOT want him around the house and you anymore than is minimally possible. Stick to offering that.

Try not to follow through with your offer to leave the house for his visitation. Maybe he'll even lie to OW about you not being there even when he KNOWS that you will be. Nice little fantasy love buster.

FF had a good point...call her Mrs. xyz whenever you get the chance.

Mr. Wondering

WH just came to my office to give me money. I'm surprised, I didn't think he would come through. However, on the memo line it says "child support". Umm...you're not divorced yet, buddy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I just said thank you.

When we talked yesterday, he was hoping to take the girls for the evening. He must not be willing to write down that he won't introduce them to OW. I asked what his plans were for tonight and he just said he will call the girls tonight. I never said he couldn't take them. Being blinded further by his own foggy mind.

He sure looked and sounded like shyat. Yuck. He's grown really scruffy facial hair and he just doesn't look well doesn't sound sick, just down. And he reeked of cigarette smoke. Interesting how he can't look me in the eye. Tick tock, tick tock.