garbage in = garbage out

I swear that when I read your story, it is like reading my own posts from 3 years ago.

I remember the frist time I saw my WxH after he had been living with OW for a couple of weeks. He looked like a homeless person! I was so shocked that I blurted out "are you ok?! Have you been sick?!?" and he said "no, I'm fine, just tired"
He hadn't shaved for a couple fo days, his clothes wee wrinkled and dirty - I truly think that he had slept in the same clothes for a couple of days. Afterwards, I even wondered if he had been fighting with OW and maybe he had slept in his truck. This was NOT the look of a man who was happy-in-love with his soul mate. I really started to see just how sick he was (mentally) at that point. Your WH is truly following the same script.

So sorry to hear you went through the same thing. Glad to see in your sig line that you are doing well. I'm starting to believe (not just say) that I will be okay without him if it comes to that.

I worry about him, though. He's drinking and smoking so heavily and looked so worn down.

He's too stubborn to see that what he has done hasn't made him happy at all. When he is finally able to come out of the fog, I'm afraid his stubborness will not allow him to make amends. He'll stick with it just because of pride.

It actually helps me to see him that way, knowing he isn't happy with his actions. It also makes me less attracted to him when he is like that. Like I said before, yuck.

My brain is so tired of thinking about all of this. I wish I had a switch just to shut it off for a while.

Finally found a counselor that is available. I'm meeting with her tomorrow and then she will start meeting with the kids. I sure hope she can help them. My deepest concerns are for them and their well-being.

Mr.Wondering "Remember, to OW YOU are her biggest threat. In the back of her mind she fears WH reconciling with you."

It's hard to remember that...in my mind I imagine their life together is perfect. Why else would he leave me and our kids? I will try to remember this...and seeing him look and sound so bad yesterday reinforces the concept that he is not in paradise. I would think they would be in the honeymoon phase of living together right now but it didn't look that way yesterday.

I will stick around when/if he comes to visit the kids. I shouldn't have to leave so he can feel less ashamed when he looks at me. I'll keep myself busy but won't leave.

Mr. Wondering "FF had a good point...call her Mrs. xyz whenever you get the chance"

I call her "her" or "she" when I have to call her anything at all. I've never used her actual name. As far as I'm concerned she is a no one, not worth the acknowledgment.

Is there any hope left for my M at all? I'm feeling really low today. I just want to know why this has happened and why WH can't love me anymore. I'll probably never get that answer and it is so frustrating.

WH didn't call DDs last night. I know they wait for his call and it just breaks my heart when he lets them down. They are still choosing not to call him.

I'm taking DDs to a concert tonight and they are having friends over tomorrow night. I'm just keeping on, hoping I'll survive this.

Of course you will survive this ...

the "why why why" is always long in coming ...

one day you will not feel this down ...

I promise

Pep

Took DDs to Don Williams concert last night. He is my all time favorite....brings back good childhood memories which are few and far between. Had a GREAT time even though I teared up through a few of the songs. They hit a little too close to home (those darn country songs!). WH called my cell (which was off) during the concert. Left 4 messages in a 15 minute period. When we got in the truck for the drive home, I turned on cell and got his messages. I handed DDs phone and said your dad called, give him a call back. DD12 calls him and tells him what a great time they had at the concert (he also knows this is my favorite artist) and that we were on our way home. DD13 talked to him and told him about the same thing. They also both told him of all the fun we had the night before (the night he didn't call). I hope he is feeling left out, I sure would be.

DDs and I are getting through okay. I talked to a counselor yesterday (focused way too much on ME!) Asked me a lot of good questions and made me realize a few things. I've heard these things before but it never really "clicked". Like why do I put myself after everything else in life. Working too hard at pleasing WH and considering more about what he feels than myself. He may have lost respect for me because of some of this. I put myself last so he did too. Make sense on one level but on another, as a wife and mother, it is my job to take care of my husband and children first. Doing anything else makes me feel selfish and neglectful of my kids. Looking back I can now see that I did not set boundaries and allowed WH actions and in turn allowed myself to be hurt by them. Gave me a lot to think about.

The only bad thing is it kind of made me realize, "Yeah, WH didn't treat me like he should have. Why should I want that back?" While I am still in trying to save my M mode, those thoughts seem a little counter-productive.

DDs will talk to counselor on Monday. I hope it is benefical for them. Counselor is also adamant that DDs do not have overnight stays with WH while OW is there. She should be a great asset legal wise at least. As far as she is concerned, WH is to be the visiting parent and that I should set up a schedule and not let him just call when he has time. I agree and am hoping to do this ASAP through the lawyers. I can't trust him to not take them to see OW and feel the only way to protect them from that is to do it through the lawyers. I will continue to invite him to the house to spend time with them until that is straightened out.

Feeling a little better today. This all seems to take so much TIME. I don't know if I have the strength. I'm taking one day at a time and trying not to look to far ahead. But in some cases I have to look ahead to determine what to do in the present. .....so many thoughts.....

Is my situation really as severe as it seems? Or is it just because it is happening to me? My hope to save my M is waning by the minute.

I can't believe it has been a month since I started posting here and WH moved out.

Had a GREAT weekend with DDs. They each had friends over on Friday night. WOW! Four teenagers at once! Lots of giggling, gossiping, makeup/hair sessions, etc. It was great to listen to them all have such a great time. Ah, yes, life goes on.

WH didn't call Friday night or Saturday night. Called Sunday night and spoke to each DD for 30 seconds. He was hunting and supposedly was about to lose service for his phone.

I have absolutely lost all respect for him. I deserve better and so do my DDs. He continues to make EVERYTHING else more important than his DDs and I. When he does call he tells them that he loves them over and over. Love is more than words, it is action. He has shown all of us just how much he has loved us.

OW H called Saturday from his hunting camp (his job)and I gave him the news about being served for D. He is wondering if his are waiting for him to get back from camp. Wouldn't surprise me or him. I'm wondering if I should call the courthouse and ask...it's all public information, but I'm not sure it's my business. Although it would be very interesting if she hasn't filed.

DDs are seeing counselor today. I hope it does them some good.

Called courthouse..... OW has NOT filed for divorce. Interesting. Or maybe she just spent all her money on my H's lawyer.

I think WH would be getting just what he deserves if OW goes back to her H and my H is left high and dry. I really don't want him back if this is the man he is. I don't even want back what we used to have. DDs and I weren't important enough to him then either and I'm no longer willing to play second fiddle to everything anymore.

WH just called and asked how counseling session went for DDs. I had already told him they would not meet with her until today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Does he not listen?! I told him I had talked to the counselor on Thursday to giver her background on the situation and then she would talk to DDs. I told him she may want to talk to him also and asked if he would be willing to do that. He said "we'll see". I told him it wasn't about changing him or changing me, it's about getting DDs through this with the least amount of damage. Again he said, "we'll see"

WH asked if he can have DDs on Oct 8. I told him I'll have to check and see what our plans are and would let him know. He still has not given me confirmation that he won't introduce them to OW until custody/counselor issues are settled. The counselor said them meeting her is going to happen anyway and didn't seem overly concerned with it, says it is inevitable. However, *I* am not ready for it!

...and the Roller Coaster ride continues....

Up, Down, up, down. Don’t you just want to yell “stop the ride – I want to get off!!!”

The thought I would like to share with you is this:

It is ok for YOU to decide what type of marriage YOU want. Your WH does not get to call all the shots. If you have decided that you will no longer accept only crumbs, then good for you. You are going through a time of deep, forced, self-reflection. It is painful, and you did not sign up for it. But it is there just the same. I would encourage you to truly allow yourself the chance to dig deep and discover what it important to you. This information will be valuable to you – no matter what R you end up in later on. The day will come – I guarantee it – when your WH and his OW will not be together, and you will be faced with the question of “Am I even interested in this man any longer? I know what I want in a M, is he able to provide that for me?”
And perhaps the answer will be yes, perhaps it will be no, but YOU need to decide what is important for you – in your own life. At one point, you and your WH had similar ideas of what you want/expect out of marriage. That is how you ended up together in the first place. So it is possible that the two of you could someday get to that point of discovering that you really did want the same things all along, and just got lost from that path.
It seems like a WS when they are still in the throws of an A, try to change their ideas of what they want, what is important to them in a R. After all, they are still trying to justify their actions. So your WH has likely changed his idea of what is important in a R, to more closely match the OW’s ideas. Now he is able to say “see-we like all the same things!”
For your future happiness, and well being, now is a good time to really decide what is important to you – without worrying about what any man says or thinks. Start journaling about it. For now, don’t worry about what you think your WH would want you to write – just search yourself.
I 2 things I decided, when I was reflecting, was that I would never again allow porn in my house, and I was not interested in a H who swears. Those were two boundaries I set that were not negotiable. When my WxH and his OW broke up, and he did try to get back together with me, I told him “I have had time to think about what I want in my M, and these are two things I will no longer accept”. As it turns out, his love of porn, and being able to swear at me, were too important to him, he wasn’t willing to give them up. He decided to find another OW who would tolerate that stuff.

As for me – I am now happily married to a man who does not swear at me, or in front of me. Ever. And he does not look at porn. He would rather look at me!!!!

During these times when the roller coaster ride swings over to the side that says “I will not accept crumbs in my M any longer. I am not second best.” Use those times to decide what you like, and what you don’t like about your M – what is important to you, what would ,make you feel loved and cherished. Don’t use the time to think about what you like about your WH or what he does that is good or bad – think in more general terms about you and your marriage- because you CAN have a good marriage. It may be with this H or it may be with someone else. But part of taking back control of your life, is reaching that point where you say “My WH has made enough choices for me. He has chosen to leave me, to break my heart, to put this sticker on my head that says “jilted wife”. I have accepted his crumbs. He has chosen to say “I am not interested in what you have to offer”. It is ok for you to say “I am not interested in his crumbs any longer. When he wants me back, I am not going to be a door mat that says it is ok to treat me like crap, as long as you come back to me.”

In the very beginning, the days following D day – we all go through a time of feeling like we would do ANYTHING to win back our spouses. Honestly, one of my WxH complaints was that I spent too much time with the kids. So at first I thought “maybe I can send the boys to stay with their grandparents every other weekend, so that they won’t be around so much, and my WxH will love me again”. Thank goodness I came to my senses pretty fast, and realized that shipping our children off to their grandparents, just to win my H back, was much too high a price to pay!

Hang in there.

"we'll see" ???

This from the man who would "do anything for his girls."
Except that which makes him uncomfortable apparently.
Unreal.

Most likely he was just looking for an excuse to call. He was probably fully aware of the time of the meeting.

Not real impressed with your counselor right now. At 12 and 13 your daughters at are a very crucial age for learning how to develop relationships. This is NOT what they should learn as "normal" or even "inevitable". I would look for a counselor that understands the teenage girls better!

I was told that for a teenage girl, her relationship with her FATHER was even more important than her relationship with her MOTHER; in terms of learning about how to base their future partnerships!

What absolutely rotten timing he has!

THIS is critical

for many women, this loss of respect is the death of love

hang on to your self-respect for dear life!

Pep

Thank you all so much for your responses. I thought everyone here had forgotten me or thought I was a lost cause!

womanoffaith5: Your words really made me think. I get so wrapped up sometimes in hanging onto the ledge with my fingernails, I forget to think about what ^I^ really want. I will do some journaling and determine what I need from a relationship. I have a tendency to adjust my requirements to what others are willing to give and I have to stop that and realize what I need is important too.

Lexxxy: I think the same thing every time he says he will do anything for his girls. Except have dinner with them at their house, except be decent to their mother, except protect their feelings by waiting to introduce them to OW, except protect their feelings by bringing them into his fantasy life, except provide for them, except make them feel like the most important people in his life, except attend counseling for their benefit.....the except could go on and on and on.

Pep: Absolutely, my love is leaving with the respect for him. I can't love a man I don't respect. On the other hand, I am learning to respect myself more and be able to voice that when necessary.

Thanks again for all the input. I greatly value your insights.

when I found out about H's 2 year A with his friend's wife

my respect for him was minus 1 thousand

my respect took a leap forward when Mr Pep agreed to tell OW's husband HIMSELF and IN PERSON about the A ... with me as a witness

I call this ~~~> MAN UP

your H has yet to make such a showing of his manhood/character/willingness to stop hurting people

so sorry

Pep

It's good to know that they CAN regain our respect, Pep. It's so frustrating when they don't WANT to. I'm sure I could respect him again but this continued behavior makes it so difficult.

WH is the father of my children and in that regard alone I should be able to respect him. But his behavior towards them also makes it difficult.

He has to EARN my respect back. It isn't his right to just have it because he fathered my children. Same for DDs. They have also lost respect for him and he will have to earn theirs back as well. If it is important to him, which I'm not sure that it is.

I've respected and loved this man for so long, I struggle with letting that go....I keep wanting to believe the man I knew is still alive. But he doesn't appear to be anymore. It truly feels that H has died.

DDs had counseling session yesterday. It went ok. I talked to counselor afterwards and she said they are stuggling and are going through an appropriate amount of confusion, anger, hurt, etc. She shared some of what they said and it is right along the line of what DD13 has been saying.

I was surprised that the Counselor could read them so quickly. She said DD12 doesn't say much but when she does it is right to the point. EXACTLY. This kid tells it like it is! Counselor also noted that DD13 tries to make everyone else happy and keep the peace. YES! I'm glad she was able to see their personalities and take them into consideration. Can she do the same with WH? Remains to be seen.

When I had originally talked to her she had told me that DDs meeting OW was inevitable. After talking to DDs, she agrees they are not ready and they should not meet OW. PHEW! I thought that was a battle I was going to have to fight on my own!

One thing she did discuss with them was how sometimes people do things for themselves that hurt other people. She then asked if sometimes they do things that make them happy that bother other people. Their answers were yes. Well, of course, but there is a difference between taking the last piece of cake for yourself knowing others may want it and tearing your family apart and causing tremendous pain and anguish to those that love you. I'm not sure what the Counselor was trying to get at there, but I didn't like how it played out. Maybe she was just trying to get them to see it from his side. I dunno.

Counselor said she was going to call WH and see if he would come in and talk to her. I'm glad she is calling, he'll take it better from her. I think he will go....not because he wants to but so it looks good. Either way it may connect somewhere in him, even if he just listens.

WH called to talk to DDs last night and was on the phone for about 1/2 hour. Normally when he calls he talks for a couple of minutes and that's it. Maybe counselor talked to him and he is going to put more effort into DDs? I sure hope so.

I can guess

no matter what a slug WH has become

the girls still call him "Dad"

so
she is trying to not make "Dad" into a demon

but a mistake-maker who is acting out of selfishness

this time of a girls life, early teens, girls look to their Dad as a male example of what kind of man they might marry ....

so to make Dad less horrible has a purpose

while not saying adultery is good/acceptable

just another bad choice

she also may have given them "homework" that might give them permission to love their Dad ~anyway~

Pep