Maybe she was trying to see that his actions aren't about them even though it affects them. In other words, if you take the last piece of cake and your little brother doesn't get any -- it's probably not because you hate your little brother or don't love him anymore. He didn't do anything wrong. It's because you're selfish and you just want cake.

Children have a tremendous capacity to blame themselves for what's going on and it might be that if your WH doesn't call they think they aren't being good daughters. It's better for them to realize that he's out doing his own thing and that's hurtful to them but it's not because they're not good enough or because it's their fault, etc.

Also, I think it's very traumatic for children to think their parents are 'bad people.' Maybe she's trying to separate out the bad behavior from who their daddy is -- sometimes otherwise good people can do some pretty rotten things.

Just a few thoughts,

Mys

I think Mys is correct, and Pep is not !
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Excellent insights, thank you. I've never been big on counseling...always felt they were trying to "trick" me into saying things. My dad was an alcoholic and I spent quite a few hours with a counselor as a child and came out of it being much more defensive than I went in.

I do hope her intention was to get them to see that it was not their faults. And I hope that they understand that. I wasn't in the room with them and when I talked to the counselor afterward, she didn't go word for word so I really didn't have a good context to put it in. But I am a bit defensive.

WH called earlier today and asked how the counseling session went for the girls. I just said "ok". Then he asked "anything come out of it, or anything I should know". I told him I would like to share with him but I felt that he didn't believe me when I told him things. Especially if it isn't what he wanted to hear. He just said "ok".

DDs have been asking for cell phones and I had told them that if he pays 1/2, I will pay the other half. They would have to talk to WH about it. They did and he said he would talk to me. So when he called this morning, he mentioned the cell phones and asked how much they were and what I wanted to do. I told him that I didn't think it was wise for us to get into more commitments together at this point. (I didn't tell him I didn't trust him to pay for his portion). He said ok, and then I told him I just didn't know how to explain to DDs that we can't do that stuff together anymore. He said he would talk to them about it. My other phone was ringing so I told him I had to go. End of conversation.

I'd like DDs to have cell phones mainly for safety reasons and as soon as custody and child support is settled I will get phones for them, I just can't afford it right now and I don't dare trust WH to hold up his end. Maybe he'll end up getting the phones for them and save me a little money <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just thought while typing this that I should send him all the info I had on the phone plans, prices, etc. Then thought, why the heck would I do that? He can do the darn research himself! Or OW can!

I was tempted to call him back later and give him the counselor's number and tell him he could call and discuss DDs session with her, but I didn't. The counselor was going to call him to try to get him in to see her so I thought I would just leave that part up to her.

cell phones without text messaging

just a suggestion

For some reason I am feeling stronger today. WH did not call DDs again last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I completed my paperwork to return to the lawyer. I've been procrastinating on getting it done and last night I just decided to do it. What a relief to have it out of the way! I'm sure there will be more to come but I got through this piece.

I feel blessed to have my wonderful daughters in my life, along with my extended family. I'm truly grateful for the support. I also deeply appreciate the extended family I have here at MB. Stories of others give me hope for a better life no matter the outcome of my M and gives me strength to work towards that better life. Thank you all!

Where is WAT? Is he Plan Bing us?

I truly appreciate EVERYONE's opinions. The variety of opinions and ideas is what makes this site so great and so helpful. Each person's opinion has value even if it is not the same as someone else's. It helps to see all sides of a subject so I can come to an informed decision on what action to take, if any.

I must be doing better....I'm starting to think of others and not so much woe is me! YEAH! I'm making today a GREAT day!

Did I make a mistake? Am I just setting myself up for more pain? Should I wait for him to ask to spend time with DDs so I don't risk the rejection?

I invited WH over for dinner tomorrow. Here is how the convo went:

Me: Would you be interested in coming over for dinner and spending some time with DDs tomorrow night?

WH: What? You mean me take DDs to dinner?

Me: No, come have dinner with us.

WH: You mean go have dinner with all of you?

Me: No, come to the house and have dinner with all of us and then spend some time with DDs there.

WH: I'll have to see what's going on. (This was always what he said to people when he need to check with me, so now is he checking with OW?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Me: Ok, let me know. Bye (upbeat and happy)

WH: Bye

Gosh, was I not clear enough the first time? He sounded like I was setting a trap....get him in and lock the door behind him! Gotcha!

I was trying to get him to spend some time with DDs without the risk of OW being involved. I actually feel better when he is not around...it is more like a death that I have grieved for and continue healing. When I see him, I feel like it is back to square one. But my DDs need him, so I'll have to deal with whatever comes with that.

"Should I wait for him to ask to spend time with DDs so I don't risk the rejection?"

well, would you prefer never having to deal with rejection, or him never asking?

odds are, he may never ask.


Some suggestions:

1. you cant manipulate your husband into spending more time with his daughters. either he wants to, or he doesnt. manipulating him into doing so, will work out badly for everyone. dont push.

2. you might try having your "first time" dinner, NOT at your house. it might make it easier for him to accept.


3. figure out what you really want. are you trying to encourage him to spend more time with THEM, or with YOU?

in your post here, you claim THEM. but I think it's more for YOU. decide the truth, and the adjust your approach as appropriate. ie: if it is really to get him more comfortable with YOU, then maybe try the dinner out thing. if it is truely for THEM, then you might consider him taking them out by himself. but that will set a precedent that it is truely "him and them", and you will be less likely to be invited in future, I would think.

I'm not quite sure how to answer you, techie. I have so many different emotions going on all the time, I'm not sure which one is the most honest....kind of depends on the moment in time. There's moments I want WH for ME and then times I want him as far away as possible for ME.

At the moment I asked WH to come to dinner, it was more for DDS then for myself. It hurts less when he is not around me at all, it's more like a death and I can grieve and move on. Every time I see or hear him, the pain comes back and I struggle with all the uncertainties of what I want. Do I want my marriage with him? Do I want someone else? Do I want just myself and DDs? Could we ever recover? Could I move on with someone else eventually or do I just have too much baggage now? I just don't know. The more time that passes and the less I see or hear from him, the more able I am to get away from the pain and continue my life without him. I don't like who he is right now and I don't like to be around him.

However, I feel that DDs need him around and it wouldn't be good for them if it was more like a death. WH will always be their dad. I wasn't asking WH to dinner to manipulate him but to provide him the opportunity to see his DDs and them the opportunity to see him in a protected environment.

If we were to go somewhere and have dinner, it doesn't seem like they would be getting quality time with him and then I am uncomfortable because I don't know what to say to him and there is dead air. We have gone to dinners and breakfast for DDs birthdays in August (before I knew the extent of the A). I thought if he came to the house, he could play board games or video games, basketball, or volleyball.....quality time and attention that absolutely makes my DDs days. I wouldn't join them, they could just have him. I do these things with them often.

At this point, I cannot trust him to take DDs and not introduce them to OW. I really try to put my own feelings aside and see it from my DDs point of view. I ask their opinions and what they want. This is also why I took them to a counselor, so the things they may not be comfortable telling me, they could tell someone else. So far, everything they tell me is what they tell the counselor. They are not ready to meet OW. Until I can trust him to take DDs feelings into consideration in regards to OW, I will have to deal with him when he has contact with DDs.

Anyway, he didn't bother calling and didn't show up for dinner. Right before dinner on Saturday DD13 said "I take it dad isn't going to come for dinner" (I had just made dinner for us and hadn't said anything about him not being there) I said "I guess not, you can call him and ask if you want to" She said "No, he should have called". Another disappointment.

I guess I figured out how to answer you, techie. Thank you for making me think.

f'n Hound

Thought I'd forgot about you. I'm still reading. Been caught up with the Detroit Tigers lately but I've stayed current with your thread. Just didn't have anything other that sympathy at the time.

Anyway, I think you should be documenting those invites. Perhaps send him an email expressing regret that he didn't show up for dinner saturday night and inviting him again this weekend. Indicate that THIS time you will not say a word to the girls, so if he doesn't show up he won't be disappointing them AGAIN. [emphasis mine, not for you email]

You've got to be prepared for the argument his attorney may use that you played keep-away with the kids or poisoned them against him. Though it may not seem like he gives a rat's butt about the girls NOW, someday, 6 months from now or even 4 years from now you could find yourself in court fighting over the children.

Also, the number 1 goal of Plan A is busting up the affair. You can't try to figure out anything or even speculate about recovery until the affair is OVER. Your focus is take care of yourself & bust up the affair. Even inviting WH over for dinner is messing with OW's mind. She's being told you are aweful and hateful but yet you invite him over for dinner, what's up with that????. Her untrusting (and untrustworthy) mind may mull over that for a bit. She IS well aware that YOU represent her biggest threat. Get them love busting.

Plan A is about doing things without any expectations. Being hypersensitive and critical of his reactions only affects you. WH is wayward and completely unpredictable and devoid of reason. You actually are just trying to mess with his mind and OW's mind while keeping your own mind tucked away and safe. I understand if you just can't do it...it is tough. I didn't just snap my fingers to get to that point of connected disconnect. That's why Plan A is also about working on you...so you can get the confidence and self-assuredness to disconnect from the craziness of infidelity and not take any of it personally.

You will make it. WH, I'm not so sure he will.

Mr. Wondering

A couple of things I want to share with you – from my own experience.

You made this comment:
“I ask their opinions and what they want.”

I would suggest that you quit asking what they want. Let them offer to talk about what they want, and how they feel, but I wouldn’t ask them what they want. They are young, and you are putting too much of an adult responsibility on them. Unless I am perhaps reading too much into this, which is entirely possible!
I can remember asking my boys “what do you want to do? Do you want to spend time with your Dad and OW?” or “Do you guys want to live half time with Dad?”
I had the best of intentions. But I came to realize that in all reality, what kids want, is a stable, peaceful home. A place to go to at the end of the day and just be a kid. They want Mom and Dad together – as long as that means Mom and Dad are not fighting. When I asked my boys what they wanted, I think a small part of me wanted to HEAR them say they wanted to be with me! I wanted to hear them say that they wanted Dad to come home. I figured that even if their Dad didn’t love me anymore, surely he still loved them enough to do the right thing. In looking back now, I wish I had not asked them to address such huge issues. I am not suggesting that you shouldn’t allow your daughters to be involved, and to have input. I am just suggesting that you listen for the moments when they want to share, but don’t put them on the spot by asking them to tell you what they want. In all honesty, I think it is difficult for a child to truly share what is on their mind with either parent – they would not want to hurt your feelings, and they wouldn’t want to say too much to dad, and drive him further away. You are the only sane parent right now. You know what is best for your babies. So do the right thing for them.

I am not sure if it was a good idea to invite your WH over for dinner or not. I can not tell if you are thinking about going to plan B yet. But it is defiantly NOT a good idea to let your DD’s know that you invited him over. If you feel like inviting him over is the right thing to do, then do it. But don’t tell your DD’s. Let it just be a surprise for them. That way they will not get their feelings hurt any further. Your WH is totally incapable of making sane, rational decisions right now.

The last thing I want to share – I truly know where you are coming from. This whole mess is a horrible, ugly thing to experience. You want to do all the right things – but the truth is that there really is no “right thing” to do, because none of this stuff is supposed to happen! You agonize with ever action. “Should I invite him over or not?” “perhaps I should have just asked him to go out to a restaurant with us, but then the conversation gets stalled, and plus his cell phone will ring all the time from OW and I can’t stand that” etc, etc.
I would suggest that for now, you quit worrying about his R with his DD’s. Quit worrying that every thing you say, and do, somehow has the power to bring him home, or repair his relationship with his DD’s. Just be still.
Some time has to pass. His R with OW truly needs to run his course. It stinks. His R with his DD’s will definitely suffer right now – and he should be very worried about that – but he isn’t. I would not work too hard at getting him together with the girls right now – because he is likely to say or do something stupid that the will leave an imprint on the girls mind. I remember when my WxH said to the boys “I am happier than I have ever been before in my life. Surely you guys would not deny me this chance at happiness”. That is a horrible load to put on two young boys. It is a memory they have to live with. And me too. As a mom, I hate that my boys had to hear that. Right now, if your WH wants to go a week, or two weeks without calling the girls, I would just let that go. Don’t try to push it. Let your girls have some time to just be kids right now, without hearing their dad say something stupid.

Just be still. Time will pass. Make lots of plans with the girls. Plan to attend all of their school events, visit friends at dinner time, go to pumpkin patches. Fill your calendar with many activities so you and the kids have things to look forward too, and so your WH will get a good look at the what life will be like if he gets the D he claims to want.

I know I wrote too much – but one more thought – since your WH has actually filed for D, it would be a good idea to show him the harsh reality of D, and the truth is, if he follows through with this – you will not be having him over for dinner. You would eventually move on with your life, and this man who has caused you so much pain, would not be coming into your home for dinner. To invite him over now just gives him a false sense of what life would look like later – as if he could in essence carry on a nice family life with you and the girls, and yet have his mistress too.

Has it really been a month since I posted? Wow, time flies when you're having fun, I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I am doing much better now than I was awhile ago. My Plan A is over and done with. I am currently in Plan B (and a little "Plan F U" (I loved that from someone else's thread) I never sent a Plan B letter, though. He wasn't contacting me anyway, so I'm just doing the same in return.

I took a little time away from posting because I felt I was getting too dependant on everyone and hoping you could answers questions that I can only find in myself and I was keeping myself wrapped up in the turmoil and waiting for answers to the why why why, which I can't get from you all. I'm attempting to be still and it has helped.


Mr. W -
You're "f'n hound" comment tickled me...actually got a laugh out loud. Thank you for posting...I read this not long after you posted and contemplated what my post back would be..I took too long and time got away from me. I appreciate your insight and the push it gives me to look at things a little differently then how I may be thinking.

womanoffaith5 -

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I can see your points. Taken under advisement and will continue to think through how much decision power to hand DDs.


I have seen the counselor a couple of times. Did NOT go well! WH went once and bullchitted her BIG TIME, which she seems to have fallen for. She told me how reasonable he was, etc, etc. I now know what you all mean about a counselor who is not pro-marriage. She was determined that our marriage would not survive and there was no point in me doing anything to hold it together. According to her, I just need to move on and co-parent with him. She also encouraged WH to talk to DDs about OW as she is part of his life now and no one should pretend she doesn't exist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Lots more said, which I will save for a later post. Busy at work and I can't get all worked up over that again!

DDs are doing well, all things considered. No more invites to dinner or offers to help make things easier between them. Plan B...he has to fix his own relationships, I am no longer playing the go between.

Thank you for checking in with me.

F'n Hound

Read up on Plan B and send a Plan B letter. Harley KNOWS what he is doing. His plan is your best chance at saving your family...if that is at all possible. If it doesn't work out you, at least, won't have any regrets.

WH needs a path back home

He'll tell OW about the letter and she see your still fighting for the marriage ....causing turmoil and insecurity in affair land

You think your in Plan B but I bet your not...Plan B is TOTAL DARKNESS...no direct communication whatsoever about the kids or anything

A partial Plan B is INEFFECTIVE for saving the marriage, protecting what little amount of love you have left and/or giving you the peace you need to move on individually.

Call the Harleys, find an intermediary, get this set up....do it right...you won't regret it.

F'n W

Mr. W - I'm glad you knew which one of us was the hound!

No my Plan B is not completely dark, I'm afraid of what it could do to the custody situation. Basically after I had a HORRIBLE counseling session where the counselor defended WH and told me all the things he had said about me, how I bad mouth him to the kids, I'm untrustworthy, don't follow through on my promises, etc, etc. (all the things, HE is)....I was incredibly hurt and I called him and said "You know that day that you told me that I would hate you someday?" He said "yes", I said " today is that day. You wanted it, now you've got it. I hate you." He said, "I never wanted you to hate me, I just knew it would happen" More after that which was totally unproductive but I got some things off my chest that have been festering for a while. In that moment, I didn't want him back (but I didn't hate him either) I just wanted him to hurt as much as I was.... didn't happen. If you don't care, I guess you can't hurt.

My concern with sending a Plan B letter at this point is how it will look to a judge. Will this look to a judge like I am being uncooperative? And not co-parenting effectively?

Why send a Plan B letter to someone who could care less what I think or feel? Doesn't it give them more to laugh at me about? And won't WH just be relieved that I don't want contact with him?

FYI- OW has not filed for D yet. When her BH asked her about it she said she hadn't even talked to a lawyer but they would probably have to do it eventually. Maybe she is just waiting to see how WH D goes. Or she is afraid of losing her son..... who knows what they think or IF they think. WH has met with OW sisters....one completely ignored him (the one that is close to OW H) and the other chattered like they were best friends. Both OW parents died of cancer years ago.

There is so little love left for WH right now, I don't know that it is worth all the work it would take to reconcile. I just want the person I am with to return the love I give. I don't think WH is capable of that. Nor do I think I can forgive all that has happened and how he has treated DDs and I. The M is looking pretty hopeless right now. However, I am feeling well, personally. I've started to enjoy life again and do things and be around people that I haven't done and been around in a long time. Feels good not to have to worry about WH being "happy" the whole time.

Until the affair ends...HE IS AN ALIEN. Nothing you do or say will effect him as long as it doesn't interfere with his addiction.

WHEN THE AFFAIR ENDS...and they almost always do...THEN you can see if there is any opportunity to save the marriage.

A dark and proper Plan B awaits that day.

Right now, every communication you have with WH takes a little bit more out of you and it plays into the Wayward fantasy that it will all work out. Essentially, you are enabling the affair to some degree.

A proper Plan B provides for Co-parenting. There is nothing in it which the court can frown on. The court can't MAKE YOU be in contact with WH. You are under NO OBLIGATION to have any contact with WH as long as you provide a method (through an intermediary) wherein you can manage the "best interests of the children". In fact, if he REFUESES to utilize the intermediary, then HE may end up looking like the bad parent.

I'm not saying go to Plan B today. Read up on it. There are steps you need to take to be ready (financial considerations, firm custody schedule). Draft a letter and post it.

Maybe you're right and there is no hope...but, what if???. We don't want you to regret that "what if???" someday. Your kids and family deserve every chance they can get and YOU are the only one that can maintain it right now. You'll be proud of yourself....no matter how it ends up.

Mr. Wondering

It's been a while since I've posted but I lurk often. I wanted to give you all a quick update on my situation and tell you again how much I have appreciated the support that I get here. Just being able to read about everyone else and how they are dealing with their problems helps me a great deal.

I am doing much better than I was even a month ago. I like the changes I have made and am gaining confidence in myself daily. I always considered myself a strong and independent woman, but this A really threw me. The last few days have been somewhat difficult but I have a great deal of support and my family really made sure to take care of me this year. In a family of 5 kids, it's not often that one of you gets so much darn attention.

About a week ago, WH called me at work (which I've asked him not to do) and wanted to know when he could have DDs around Christmas. I asked him what he wanted to do and that I was willing to work with him on a schedule. He told me to make plans for whatever I wanted and he would fit in wherever he could (REALLY unlike him to offer that). He said he was the one that screwed all of this up and he knew he was the one who was going to have to be flexible and adjust to what we needed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Is he getting it? I don't know....maybe just words again with no follow through. We'll see what his actions are. We worked it out where he could come on Christmas eve morning and open presents at my house and then take DDs to his sister's house to open more presents there with their cousins. DDs had a GREAT time....they don't see these cousins often because WH and SIL do not have a very good relationship. DDs haven't seen these cousins since WH moved out. I did see SIL in the store the other day and she said hi but was very short and unfriendly. Then she saw DDs with me and was VERY friendly to them. Anyway, back to the telephone conversation about Christmas plans, a couple of times through the conversation WH said he "had made his bed and knew he would have to lie in it now". My sister and her two kids are staying with me for two weeks and WH was even willing to come to the house with them there. I decided that would be too awkward for DDs so I asked my sister to go to our mom's while WH was there. This in itself was pretty shocking, first that he was willing to come to my house at all (he has been adamant that he will not spend time with DDs there and seems pretty uncomfortable when he has come to pick them up - only stands in the doorway to wait for them), and second that he was ok with my sister and her kids being there. While discussing this part of the plans, he again said that he had made his bed and would have to deal with all that has brought on. Is H making an appearance?

WH came to the house Christmas Eve morning to open presents with DDs. He was pretty chatty, telling me stories about work, friends, and his family. He was wearing a new sweater (very preppy, which is not his style and new tennis shoes that were not his style either) I was pleasant but didn't ask many questions and didn't offer any stories of my own. I was pretty emotional and close to tears most of the time but I don't think he knew. Until they left, and then I couldn't help but let a few tears out. Then I sucked it up and waited until they were completely gone to cry. Christmas was better and less emotional. All of my siblings and my mother came to my house and we were busy all day. Then my sister, DD13, and I sang karoake until 1:30a! It was a blast, even though I don't have a voice this morning!

OW update: OW H has talked to OW about a legal separation and come to a verbal agreement. After that is filed, neither one can file for divorce for six months. According to OW H, she has not even spoken to a lawyer yet. He has taken her off all of his business accounts (he is self employed), personal accounts, and their DS7's bank account. Right after Christmas he will have her sign the agreement and file it.

OW does not seem very committed to my WH. She seems to be enjoying riding the fence, her H being kind to her and my WH doing whatever he does for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I drive by their house often as it is on my way to pick up DDs after school. Often WH is not there and OW is. When he talks to DDs he says he is working late or at a buddy's house helping him out (excuses to me during the whole A also, is he telling OW the same thing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). You can see right through their picture window, especially since it gets dark so early and she has the lights on. It feels like a physical kick every time I go by there and she happens to be walking in front of the window. But it's like a car accident, I can't help but look even if I don't want to.

OW and WH never even got a Christmas tree this year. And DS7 lives there! Pretty typical of WH though. In our phone conversation about Christmas scheduling, I had made a comment about him having to do his own shopping (which I had always done) and he said "well, you know I've never been big on holidays and this one I'm even worse" What happened to being so in love? Soul mates, etc? OW went to her sister's house as they do every year, WH was not welcome (Thanksgiving did not go well when OW took WH to sisters). So where was WH? Hmmmm.... Actually, I know what he was doing for part of the day....talking on the phone to my brother who was at MY house. Getting his "family fix" that way, I guess. What must that have felt like? To hear all the laughter and talking going on in the background and not be included?

A couple of weeks ago at DD12's basketball game, WH asked me if I would get a copy of our last 2 years tax returns to him. I said I would look and see if I could find them. --I know exactly where they are (I actually had them in my truck with me as I needed them for my lawyer). He asked again a few days later and I told him I hadn't had time to look for them. Then he asked me again a week later and I pretty much laid it out to him that I would not be helping him in any way to make the D easier for him to do. There are other places he could get the information he needed. There was a long pause and he said he understood. Then another long pause.......and he asked.....where can I get the information. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I just kind of laughed and made comment about still getting information from me when I didn't want to help him out. Then I told him to talk to his HR director and they could get his W2's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I just can't help it! It is not in my nature to withhold things I know that would help him out! I wish I could but I don't like to be unfriendly especially when he is being nice. But I imagine he is only being nice to get what he wants from me and to be "friends". I am confused sometimes about what is the appropriate way to react to him. Being my normal helpful self vs enabling the affair and destruction of my marriage. Anyway, I don't imagine he even has to have them because they were turned in to my lawyer so the court will have a record of them.

I believe the lovebusting between OW and WH has begun or will begin shortly. WH asked to have DDs over for dinner one night (the first time they have even been to his house since he moved out). I asked if "Mike's wife" was going to be there. He said no and proceeded to tell me what her plans were for that night! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I cut him off and told him I didn't need her itinerary, just knowledge that she would not be there for dinner with DDs. They still have not met her and I'm working that angle as long as I can. I called OW H to find out OW plans for that night. Their DS7 had a Christmas play that would get over about 7:30. She asked her H if she could go to his house to wait for it to begin, he didn't make it easy on her and asked why she didn't just go back to her house. She made some lame excuse that she didn't want to drive all the way home and then come back for the play. They were less than a mile from her house, but OW H was pushing her because he knew my DDs were at WH/OW house. She got irritated with him and then he decided to let it go and let her stay at his house until the play started. He was not going to be there as he already had plans. When their DS7 play got over, OW called WH and asked if she could come home yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He said DDs were still there but would be leaving soon. She waited about 10 minutes and then called him back. WH said DDs were still there but they could leave if she wanted them to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> She must have said yes, because he brought them home. DDs heard all of this conversation between the two of them. What must they think of her? What must they think of WH for basically letting her kick them out? I followed OW home to make sure that DDs and OW did not cross paths. I was having dinner at the place she stopped to call WH and wait to go home. All by chance since I didn't know she would be pulling into that particular parking lot to wait until she could go home. hehehehehe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Perfect opportunity to follow her and make sure she stayed away from DDs and their was no "accidental" meeting. Makes me wonder what WH thinks of OW. If I was her, I would have gone shopping or something to give WH as much time with DDs as he could have since he has not spent any time with them since the end of November. Are those cracks I see in their "relationship"? And does it really matter anymore?

I feel pretty strongly that D is going to have to happen. Even if WH changes his mind, I may finish it. I like who I have become and have been able to see how H treated me in the marriage that was not always good for me. He was always pretty inconsiderate and selfish. Which reminds me, DD13 had made a gift at school for WH and gave it to him while they were opening their presents with him. He didn't even open it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I know it hurt DD13's feelings but she didn't say anything. This pretty typical of H also. He doesn't like to open gifts in front of anyone. But she isn't just "anyone".

That's my update for now. There is more but will have to wait for another day. I hope everyone had happy holidays. Now we don't have to do it for another year, maybe it won't hurt quite so much then. It was easier than I thought it was going to be but still hard sometimes too. DDs had a great time and seemed to handle everything as well as could be expected.

Thank you all again for your support, opinions, and suggestions, it is greatly appreciated.

Sometimes I just sit and think "I don't know how to do this". Then I come here and know that I can do it, others have, and I am not alone.

Oh, yeah. When I talked to OW H, I voiced some concern on whether or not WH and OW may stage an "accidental" meeting with my DDs. He said that he doubted she was looking to meet them at all. She is not friendly with kids or motherly in anyway. Even with her own son. OW H has kids from a previous relationship and OW never once let them stay the night. She told her H that "they had rooms at their mother's house and that is where they can stay". Real nice isn't she? Makes me wonder about her H and why he allowed that to happen, but I have my own worries without analyzing someone else's relationship!

Does anyone know how to change my main subject line? I have been unable to do so. I thought I could go back to my very first post and edit but no longer have that capability.

It is probably too late to edit it. Sounds like you are doing well. Hope you can hold off on divorce, because it seems like there are some problems in paradise.

Hi Fox,

Good to hear from you.

Are you still in Plan A? From reading your post it sounds like it. What is your current transition time line from exiting Plan A into Plan B?

Jo