Loving_Learning, although I agree that what you had was not an A, it was betraying behavior and ‘mental’ adultery. And as someone said previously, your robbed your W of time, energy and emotionally intimate thoughts that rightfully belonged to her. But you already know that and have stopped that behavior! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, you can read more what I have to say about mental adultery and why I view such as serious betrayal here (just click on the link).

I agree with others that you should tell your W and I’m glad you’ve already started to broach this subject with her. There must be radical honesty and total openness in order to have true intimacy in an M…and secrets and deception is a barrier to such intimacy. Also, your guilt over what happened, put “walls” between you and your W and further prevent you from having true intimacy with her. Therefore I think you need to become totally honest and open with her about your past behavior...even if she does not raise this subject again.

However, while you need to have total honesty/openness in your M and keep no past secrets from your W, you also don’t want to force too much information on your W (information she might not be interested in and probably don’t want to hear). Therefore, my advice is to raise this topic again with your W and just give her the basic info e.g. your use of the inappropriate chat rooms and on-line IMs/photo’s etc. Then leave it to her to ask further questions should she have any.

Let me share the following paragraph from the book ”Purpose Driven Life”:

[color:"blue"] “Hiding your hurt only intensifies it. Problems grow in the dark and become bigger and bigger, but when exposed to the light of truth, they shrink. You are only as sick as your secrets. So take off your mask, stop pretending you’re perfect, and walk into freedom.”[/color]

Also read the following paragraph from the same book:

[color:"blue"] “Do you really want to be healed of that persistent temptation that keeps defeating you over and over? God’s solution is plain: Don’t repress it; confess it! Don’t conceal it; reveal it. Revealing your feelings is the beginning of healing.”[/color]

The good news is, you’ve already started your healing journey because you’ve confessed here and have already started confessing to your W… And that’s good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now continue on this path...

For the full two chapters from The Purpose Driven Life” on growing through and defeating temptation (should you ever experience problems with this again in future), click here.

Take care.

I'm not going to tell you to let her know anymore since she obviously seems to have an issue with masturbation in general. Did I understand you correctly that she feels that m-bating is cheating?

I think m-bating is only cheating/betraying behavior/mental adultery if the spouse fantasize about other men/women (and not his/her own spouse) while doing it. And Loving_learning was doing exactly this while he also had the visual stimulation of photo’s/videos etc. on the computer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> This is serious and his W needs to know...no matter if she has an issue with m-bating in general or not... Which I don’t think she has… I think she specifically has an issue with the fact that her H was m-bating while fantasizing about other women (and I would have an serious issue with this too if I were her).

All - Thanks for the follow-up.

I agree I would like to discuss it more with her although I would like to see if she brings it up on her own in the near future before I push the issue.

However, I still feel that even if we discuss it more and get it out in more detail - that very little will help my regret. I keep thinking that I am this monstrous man who has the beautiful religious wife who is a great mother. I wonder if I am a good enough father for my kids despite all the time I spend with them. Ilook back on that time and let my guilt of my acts define that period in my life with my wife and my family. I lost all pride and self-respect - now I fear how I will feel when I see that same feeling in my wife's face.

I am going to confession this Wednesday to discuss this issue - but I am struggling with the thought that I am no good.

Suzet, according to this post... he never got to the details... only that he m-bated. She felt that was cheating.

True - She did ask if I was thinking about any women we knew - i.e. real world women and I said no - it was mostly fantasy and no real woman in particular.

MEDC, I unserstand what you're saying, but in that same post you've quoted, Loving_learning posted the following:


Note that his W asked him directly after he had told her about the m-bating, if he fantasized about other women... This (from a woman's POV) is telling me that in her mind and thoughts, she connects his m-bating with fantasizing about other women (and by the way, she was on spot with this regarding her H's behavior). That’s why I still think the issue is with the m-bating while fantasizing about other women, and not the m-bating itself. However, I can be wrong here...

Can some of you provide some insight into the feelings about myself?

I love my wife and want my family more than anything - yet I feel I am not good enough for them.

I feel like I am this heinous person who disregarded my relationship for a period of time - it was like I was blind - no i look back and feel so low, like I am in this hole.

Hi LL-
You mention that you will go to confession, so I assume you're catholic? Were you raised Catholic or converted? I'm a convert- my impression from the outside-turned-in is that this religion has a love/hate relationship with sex in general. If you were raised thinking that "feeling good is VERY BAD", then it may explain your emotions now. I'm just throwing that out there as a possibility- perhaps you could brainstorm as well.

Look at the situation objectively. You are not heinous- you have done many things right! You love your wife and you respect your marriage. You have come here to fix something that has been bothering you. This is a wonderful chance to grow and learn as a full person, and also to grow and learn in your marriage with your true companion, your wife. Be kind to yourself. If someone came to you with this problem, what advice would you give them?

You are not alone, that is for sure!

090886 - Thanks. I am a convert - did so for wief. And while I have been growing as a Catholic I am far behind my wife. However, everytime I look at her and see how happy she is I feel umworthy. I feel like the period of time was something I was doing without realizing it - like I was blind - and now I see so clearly.

I look at my kids and they tell me they love me, my wife says she loves me - but I don't love myself.

To be honest - if I saw hurt on her face or my kids - I will simply cease to live.

I converted for my husband too. Maybe he can talk to you about this problem (he is "Messdup" here). He has been involved with internet porn and he also visited a prostitute (he refers to it as a Massage Parlor, same thing). He hated himself for years, considered suicide and withdrew from me because he felt so guilty. His withdrawal from me led me to think that he didn't love me, and I ended up having an emotional affair with someone else. So he and I are here to recover the mess we are in.

I see my husband's words in your posts. I'm worried about you and I hate to see your marriage go down that path.

Please DO NOT be afraid to tell your wife the truth. She is a strong woman of faith- this is her opportunity to accept you for who you are, and to show you that you are worthy of her love. Please don't be like my husband and be afraid to hurt her. It will lead to worse problems.

Relax and don't worry. No need to rush, since you have stopped the behavior long ago. Find the right words and the courage, and tell her. She will be ok. I am.

090866 - Thanks - I am afraid that she will leave. She is a strong willed woman who does think at first with her emotions. I do want to tell her everything - but afraid if all is revealed it will be over because she would want to get away.

Now - I never visited prostitutes or hooked up with any real live women. I only looked for quick thrills and saw the whole IM/Online material as a quick thrill. Since they weren't true porn sites - I thought I was being smart by half by just engaging in some harmless fantasy. I could go weeks without even thinking about it - but sometime boredom brought it back into play.I know I was wrong. Not sure if I was addicted though as when I realized this was just stupid - I walked away from it.

At this point - she thinks things are so good between us. On many levels things are really great - we talk alot, do things around the house - I am actually helping her to start her own firm.

My recent realizations came about from a deep self examination that I started a year or two ago from a religious perspective. I confessed my impure thoughts/acts as they occured so I could take communion and receive grace - but it was only until now I saw the core sin was the result of being too self-centered and not calm enough to look at the bigger picture. Before I started thinking about this - I did talk to her one night and admit that for a couple years I was selfish about time - working too much - and not being as involved with her because of my work demands. Being an only child - I was not always the greatest communicator.

I am glad you and your husband are still together. That gives me hope.

I have no patience for not telling a spouse about infidelity. But I want to be sure about what we are talking abou there.

So, simply, did you have conversations of a sexual nature with a woman on the internet? By conversations I am including emails and instant messages. Or did you just view material and use that as inspiration for your actions?

IMHO, the distinction is important. If you had no conversations then I do not believe you had any type of A and have nothing to confess to your W. You will want to stop the pornography because it obviously causes you concern. Not every person is impacted the same as you. In addition, having been raised in the Catholic Church I am aware of the guilt that can come from the pulpit at times. Don't be one of those people that uses your religion to beat yourself down. If you have made a mistake, correct it and learn.

Only if you have betrayed your W do you need to talk to her any further about this. Certainly if you find that you have a pronography problem you will need to talk to her about that too.

Please answer the above questions so I know what the issue is here.

mkeeverydaycnt - The chat rooms had text messagingin the rooms, photos from profiles, webcams/videos that were playing in the room.

I never maintained conversations with a single person - just relied on in-room text. Occaisonally I would get pinged - but never responded with anyone. I never divulged information about myself, no photo or ptofile information - was mostly a lurker. No EA or PA. No emails or phone conversations. I didn't look for a relationship just looked at it as a virtual environment for release.

I know what you are getting at though - I received varying opinions on your point.

Okay, I feel as though I am not getting a straight answer to my question. Did YOU have any IM'ing back and forth with any other person of a sexual nature... or were you relying solely on being a voyeur to others conversations?
"Mostly a lurker" doesn't tell me what you were doing when you were more than lurking.

The only IMing directly would be if I wanted to watch a webcam.

Otherwise all the texting was in the room.

you are one of the more evasive posters I have encountered. Straight answer to a straight question... did you IM anyone... in a room or not about sexual stuff?

Did you IM anyone about watching their web cam?

Yes/no

If the answer to either of these questions is "yes" then IMHO, you cheated and need to let your wife know. If the answer is "no" then I don't feel you did cheat.

Sorry for the delay in my response - had to leave work. I also apologize for the vagueness in my answers.

The answer to your first question is no.

The answer to your second question is yes. However, sending an IM was required to see webcam - everyone in chat room had to do that.

okay...
but I am assuming that sending the IM for the web cam was NOT for telling the "model" what you wanted her to do. If my assumption is correct... what I view your issue is... or was.. was viewing inappropriate pornography, but not cheating on your W. Not really any different than watching a movie in my opinion. Now, if you directed the model... that's another story.
So, if my assumptions are correct, you can have a talk with your W and let her know that you have viewed pronography in the past and that you know it is wrong.... that you will not repeat this and that you are accountable to her. Also, have a discussion with her about the m-bation thing as necessary since this is a problem for her.

ok you told her the basics and she stopped you, I would not push the issue any further, I would just let her come to you and ask the questions and ask for the details, be completely honest with her, no half truths no "little white lies" just be truthful. She will ask the questions that she needs to, (IMVHO).