I can always count on you to show up to take a cheap shot whenever I have any kind of debate, discussion so you can pile on. You are like a shark, who only comes when he thinks he smells blood in the water.

Owl, when will your endless whining ever stop? You are never able to defend your points so you then resort to whining and cheap shots. If you can't defend your position, then take it like a man and stop the endless whining.You are not a victim. PLEASE. Enough already. You even sent Tempest over the edge with your whining tactics.

She told you: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=3&vc=1

I never see you contribute here, except to come here and whine, pile on ME, threaten to leave when you lose an argument, or support your "friend" IWRA/SARIE/BlessedTime/SillyGirl/SummerSky/Celt in her campaign of affair building.

Please, enough already, "wise" Owl.

ML,

I hear your objections....I think you hear mine. We agree on the major points....and have some disagreement on the details....and that's a-okay with me. Afterall, a whole MB with nuttin but stars, mels and peps....would drive this place nutsoid.


oh yeah! We need open the cajun/texas can of [email]whoop@SS[/email] and hunt her down!!

You rock, Star! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Girlfriend, the tides have turnt against ya! HE11 IS COMING YORE WAY!! **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Quick hold her down mel while I give her a NOOGIE!!

Only if you hold her down while I tease up that flatheaded silly left coaster hair with some Aquanet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Mel...

I never once said anything personal ABOUT YOU. I noted to Starfish that I admire that they were willing to continue this fight, but admonished them to realize that many people have tried and given up.

Please take note that there wasn't a single thing said ABOUT YOU...or about your personality, or any snide remarks of any kind about those whom you've chosen to support. I was just as suckered by IWRA as EVERYONE ELSE. Feel free to heap the blame at my feet...trust me, it doesn't bother me one bit.

I liked the "endless whining" part...that was especially nice! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But I would like to add that I'm glad that Star is going to try to get Dr H on here to clarify the matter in a way that no one can dispute. It would be awesome to get a direct quote from the source, rather than everyone's interpretation. Until we get a quote from him, ALL of us are assuming we know his true opinion on this. As Star said, there's no great single source that spells this out.

Of course you were talking about me. You know it and I know it. And no, "everyone else" was not "suckered" by IWRA. YOU WERE, "wise" Owl. Most notable is that you had common agendas.

Its not especially "nice" to whine endlessly, Owl. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mel,

You've made the "agendas" comment in the past.

The ONLY agenda I have is applying compassion when posting to people who are asking for help.

Amazingly enough, I fully support all of the MB principles...AS THEY ARE ON THE SITE AND IN THE BOOKS...not your view of it.

I'm sorry you feel that I've got some other intent.

Owl, and I am sorry that you are not honest enough to look at yourself and see thet there might be a problem when your agenda matches exactly that of very mean, cruel, deceitful person whose goal was to PROMOTE AFFAIRS, disrupt the board and attack board members. You facilitated her agenda zealously. Unfortunately, that lesson seems to be entirely lost on you.

Mel-

I'm sorry that you feel that I'm here to promote affairs. ABSOLUTELY NOT. It amazes me that you can say this...could you please provide me with a quote...with the entire paragraph and NOT something taken out of context...that supports your belief that I'm here to promote affairs of ANY kind?

I don't agree with an affair in ANY fashion. If I had to guess, I'd say that you're taking this point because I've NOT advocated exposure long term after the affair had ended, as in 2BN's or IWRA's (SUPPOSED) situations.

That does NOT mean that I support affairs...if that's the case, then I could assume that this would be Star's 'agenda' too? I don't think so...

Owl, and I am sorry that you facilitated IWRA in her nefarious agenda. She has caused untold harm on this board and you carried water for her. You helped her harm this board, which is why she called out to you when she was catching any heat. You always came to the rescue.

Nor did I say you were here to "promote affairs," just that you faciliated a nefarious agenda that was PRO-affair, even though that wasn't you intent. Please go back and read my post. Neither Star OR Dr. Harley have stated they don't advocate late term exposures. You are standing alone with your affair promoting friend, IWRA, on that issue.

Mel-

ENOUGH OF THIS ALREADY!

IWRA was not my friend. I'm sorry I aided her too. I did NOT know she was trolling. I attempted to step in when I saw someone getting ATTACKED AND ABUSED...BY YOU! Because I was (am still am) convinced that the tact you take...YOU ARE TAKING RIGHT NOW WITH ME ON THIS THREAD...is only going to convince people who need help to not seek it here because they're afraid that they'll be treated in the same fashion as you're treating me...RIGHT NOW.

I do not support, nor advocate affairs. I'm thoroughly disgusted by them, and have been through the same HE11 that the rest of us have been through because of them!!!!! And I'm CERTAINLY tired of you trying to make it appear that I have any other agenda or opinion!

Again...look at what you're trying to do with your posts...you're attempting to discredit anything I have to say because YOU choose to associate me with IWRA. Nice tactic...it might even work.

late exposure

measurably superior to

no exposure

when discussing

protection of future contact

therefore

facilitating the safety

of all concerned!

Pep

Sorry this all upsets you, but others are equally upset at what you and IWRA did here and I am sick and tired of your continual piling on and endless whining. That is the only reason you slink over here. She might not have been your "friend" but you faciliated and supported her in every way in her nefarious agenda. She knew she could always count on you to come to her rescue when others called her on the carpet for her affair promoting tactics.

She was the attacker and the "abuser" but you somehow couldn't see that because she used some nice words to disguise her abuse. Please note that she is banned, I am not.

Let me put this another way, Owl. Not exposing to the victim spouse serves to PROTECT the wayward spouse and PROTECT the affair to the detriment of the betrayed spouse. IWRA knew this and this was her goal. So while your motivation might have been different from that of a remorseless wayward wife, the end result is the SAME. And THAT is what counts.

I am simply suggesting that you reexamine your agenda because of this and remind you that the road to he11 is paved with good "intentions." Your motivations do not EXCUSE bad actions. If your agenda matches that of an affair promoting wayward, that might be cause to reexamine your goals.

Again, same tactic. Enough is enough...


I completely and totally agree.
But, I also agree with Star's point that exposure, YEARS down the road after an A has been ended for a long time and the married couple in question has been in recovery, can be very detrimental to that very marriage by raising the risk of renewed contact. The benifits...TO THAT MARRIAGE...probably do not outweigh the risks. Now, the benifits to the OTHER marriage, I can't measure without being in that situation. But as we've all seen repeatedly, when the A ends, the FWS gives up ANY right to 'worry' about the life of the OP. That includes having the 'right' to step in and expose WITHOUT THEIR BS's consent.

We've recently seen that Dr H says that the exposure should come from the BS...NOT the WS/FWS. So if someone's BS refuses to expose, that 'blame' doesn't fall on the FWS...at least in my opinion. If a FWS reaches out to ANYONE having to do with OP without the BS's express approval and agreemant is a violation of the trust that they're attempting to rebuild. Regardless of how long since the affair occurred.


So Mel...by that reasoning. If a WS comes here looking for help, and you respond in your typical fashion (with litle to no compassion for someone who's done something totally stupid) and leaves the board because they're convinced that all they're going to find here is hostility...causing them to continue the affair...does that make YOUR agenda an "affair promoting" one?

Nope. But, the situation I've described not only could happen, but likely has. I don't question your motives...I know you're as anti-affair as ANYONE. See the parallel?

Nice that we're calming this back down into a real discussion.

Owl, not to beat a dead horse here... but you also came to the defense of Blackopal and Cinnamonsugar.... do you see a pattern here?

Owl, your position on late term exposures has been that it is NOT necessary and that is a position that is not supported by Marriage Builders or Dr. Harley. Nor can it be defended rationally. You have never been able to defend that position rationally which has led you to endless whining at those who disagree with you. That is a position that was held by a remorseless wayward in order to faciliate her affair, but somehow you are not able to see that this is the logical conclusion of your position: affair support. IWRA saw that, but somehow you have missed it.


Owl, your analogy doesn't work, because I do not have the power to "drive" anyone off this board. [only mods can do that] But secondly, are you really in a position to talk about "compassion" after you helped a vengeful, remorseless wayward assault this board for YEARS? That is not my idea of "compassion," friend.

I would like to respond to something you said earlier:


But, I didn't associate you with IWRA, you did that all on your own by teaming up with her. When she snapped her fingers, you came running to help promote her agenda, which is identical to yours. You discredited yourself all on your own, without my help, friend.

AND..........the only other time he comes here is when he sees an opportunity to PILE on *ME*. As with his friend, IWRA, he is here only to fan the flames and support every troll when he sees such an opportunity.