FF, you've always known my thoughts on your H. You deserve SO much more than just pulling back and focussing on the kids.

{{{{{{{{{{FF}}}}}}}}}}

I know, Jen how you feel. I also know that right now I can live with what I have. I think this is part of a very long process for me.

I'm not sure what prompted you to write about this right now.

Jo is pretty wise, and she's probably right about there being some kind of reason.


My first reaction was that - Yes, it can work. One of my good friends W had an OC, but he (child) lives in their home, and there is no contact with OM these days.

It's really a different situation than what you have. FYI the child is 14 years old, and the family is doing well.
I talked at length with friend, and with friends W about it while it was happening - through recovery, and since. It was difficult for both, but they don't give it much thought now.

Faith,
This has been difficult for you. Sometimes you felt it was all but over, sometimes you felt recovery was a sure thing.

Where are you now?

SS

I think a person in FF position has to be able to look around the corner to the future. She has to be able to imagine what 2, 3 years, etc. may bring. But what's most important when doing so, honestly admit what she can and can't handle.

She also needs to be able to access, knowing her husband as he is, whether he will be a stand-up married person of integrity and honor. Thus far he has demonstrated anything but.

FF~

This may shock you, but I tend to come down on the same side as Pep and noodle. A possibility, but unlikely. I hate to be so negative, but you and I both have been around this board, and the other for awhile now. I bet we can count on one hand how many M have gone on to true recovery when it was the H who had the A and produced an OC, right?

I don't want to be jaded. I *do* believe it can happen-- you can recover, heal and have a wonderful M. It's just there are so many crappy variables involved when it's a WH/OC situation, that frankly makes the road a lot bumpier than a couple in mine and my H's situation.

For what it's worth... I'm pulling for you. If anyone can do it, you can do it. Now we just need to get your H on board!!!

I pray you will be one of the happy endings.

And don't sell yourself short, I think you have ever bit as big a heart as Kimmy. You've just not been given the chance to demonstrate it directly to your OC.

SS, my dear friend, Jo has it correct. My H is likely very limited in his willingness to change. I have to peek into the future and honestly assess what it may hold for me. I am somewhat at peace right now but mostly because we are NC. The NC is not my choice, it is his but he feels guilt, he misses the child and I think he still has guilt over promises he made to the OW. He has not yet demonstrated to me that he has the integrity or strength necessary to do what is necessary for us to heal. Conflict avoiders are tough nuts to crack. He has to WANT to change. Status quo is not good enough for a lifetime for me, but it will do for now. I am not making rash decisions nor has anything specific started this. It is likely started from not being caught up in the drama anymore. I have more time to think, to see, to breathe.

Oh AD! Thank you for your kind words and friendship. They both mean a lot to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I didn't finish that up well.

"Yes it can work," was my FIRST reaction.

The more I thought about it, the more I worried.

Faith, what made YOU change?
I can't imagine you ever being in an A in the first place, so you have come a long, long way.

You put your whole heart into it, and here you are.

I wish HE would.

Maybe that's why you worry. Maybe you compare what you did, with what he is doing and realize he's not doing enough.

Hey, how about........... Ur, well, no, perhaps this isn't the best time to ask about dates, and vacations?

OK, OK, just teasing. We can't let this get TOO serious.

I have more time to think, to see, to breathe.

Breathing is important. I think I'm addicted. Can't go 30 minutes without. Is that bad?

Have a good weekend Faith - it's probably your turn.

SS

FF,

When my H made the choice of no participation of the OC, I questioned him on it. I told him my fears, fears being 10+ years from now he would blame me for HIS decision. He cried and promised and begged that those things would not happen. But years later they did. He blamed ME.

He said he knew I wouldn't take him back if he wanted to see the OC. Nice of him to ask me back then. It was all just another big fat lie of his.

Being blamed for his decision was one of the hardest parts of all of this mess he made. I love children and he, and OW, made me feel like an evil monster. To this day he has never come clean and told her it was his decision. How could he, after all he was boinking her again.

Talkin about betrayal and being robbed on so many different levels. This is what a dishonorable weak WH in this situation is capable of.

I'd hate to see you go thru what I went thru twice in my lifetime. It nearly killed me, literally.

Jo

SS, still planning a family vacation to the place you sent the pics of in early fall. My DD and DS need some happy memories (so do I). What changed in me? I found the Lord. I nearly lost my son. I fell back in love with my H. Probably more than that but that is what stands out.

Jo, I understand where you are coming from. One thing that has always worried me about my H and left him so vulnerable to OP is his seeing me as the enemy and his lack of protection over me. This is long standing, something I have prayed would change but don't see it happening. If he and the OW got back together and wanted to villanize me so be it. I know the truth. God knows the truth. My children, my friends, and my family know the truth. As for him and his family? If that is what happens they can have each other. I am past that.

There is a poster on another board. She recently wrote something that opened my eyes and allowed me to no longer feel responsible for the OC not having a father. This sit is the poor choices of the OW and my H. They are the reason OC does not have a father. Not me, not my children. SHE does not want her child around me and He is not willing to fight her. So be it, not my responsibility. He is a grown man and he made his choice. If he one day regrets it, it is not on me. I was and AM willing to open my heart and my home to that child. I think much of this has cleared the way for me to think about me and where I fit into this picture.

Good for you honey. Don't ever let your H or anyone try to make you feel responsibility for their very poor choices.

In my opinion, your husband is still a WH. I think he's still addicted to the OW in a big way, and I think you realize this. I don't know if you two can make any decisions regarding the OC until you take your first real steps into recovery.

Jo

... I concur

plus

there is no rush to make any changes at this particular time

there is very little to make me think your H is going to become a husband of recovery

by that I mean
a man who knows who he is
a man who steps into a leadership role


He's not a bad man
however
he is not a man of recovery

the OC issue is huge
and most of those women on the OC/preg board have young children ... and "contact" is mostly passing the kid back and forth

BUT

when the kids are older and when they become young adults the task of co-parenting becomes more challenging, not less

teens will NOT want their lives interrupted by having to spend weekends away from their friends .... they rebel & generally become a pain in the [censored]

and teens will split-decision married parents & cause married parents to fight ... imagine the task of managing teen-OC with at least 4 different sets of rules

and teens from broken homes suffer more ... I suspect irregardless of contact or no contact

case in point: MrT (you know who I mean) ... it's all gooey "love my daughter" crap right now ... little does he know that in 10 years she is going to hate his guts and cause trouble on purpose!

imagine the future wedding plans:
"this is my mom & this is her husband, and this other man is my father and his wife and my step siblings. Yes, my step-brother & I are the same age" ....


who is going to be in the waiting room with you when future grandchildren are being born & who gets to be in the delivery room ??? (big fight ensues)

the problems in an ordinary family are HUGE ... and with a special needs child thrown into the mix ... the stress is unmeasurable!

It takes a special special man to overcome these pressures ... a man who knows his strengths and his weaknesses ... it takes internal strength and fortitude ...

I think I know what you are made of FF ... I am not so sure your H measures up, even though he is a very nice guy

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

do the best you can with the way it is right now
don't set unrealistic goals
take pleasure in everyday joys

and

most importantly

keep an exit plan/option open

Pep

wanted to add

spend zero time worrying about what H is doing

zero

I see no net gain from that topic of worry

Pep

FF,

You present an interesting challenge here. To sort out a huge question. I like that you are looking for lots of input. Maybe someone here will trigger the right answer, or lead you to a path that will help you find the one for you.

I wonder about your husband, and his personal strength. Do you BELIEVE in his ability to be a man of honor and inner strength? I'm not asking about whether you are praying for him, or hoping that he can be strong. I'm asking you to examine what you know of him, and what you know him to be. The term "dual allegiance" is spot-on. Those without honor, without inner strength, or with weak morals, usually find themselves unable to continue in situations which require a high level of maintenance of two difficult or opposite forces in their lives - in your situation, you and the OW/OC. He will find himself making a choice between the two, because he cannot maintain them both. (You can find this in other relationships, like wife vs. mother-in-law, for example.)

There is also the question about what you personally can withstand. You will know the OC is there. If there is NC, the guilt that you will carry knowing that the OC isn't responsible for the situation is probably bothering you and your H. If there is C, the fear that the A will resume is there for you, and the stress of distrust is there for your H. No easy answers. Either choice is a losing choice. You have to decide based on....what? So I ask that question.

Do you decide based on what is:
Best for you
Best for your own child
Best for the OC
Best for the OW
Best for your H

IMHO, the children in the situation are depending on the adults to do the right thing for them. Two of the adults made some bad decisions that put the little ones in the middle of this. Does one now grow up fatherless because of it? Big decision here.

Another poster talked about how the XH blamed her for the alienation from the sons. No one has talked about how the child feels when he's 16, and goes looking for the dad if no one allows contact now - and the blame the child will throw around then. Just something to think about. This problem lasts a very long time, and has long term impact on the mind of the child. There's also the concern that there are half-siblings involved here, and they do go looking for one another later on as well, which can become difficult.

I hope you find the answer you're seeking.

SB

YES, that is I think what I was looking for.

ITA, hence my concerns.

Faith, I personally don't think there is anything wrong with making decisions based on what is best for your children. I have, I can live with it (so far) even though it's not what most people would call ideal.

I've got no advice for you. It's only by some miracle that OW didn't get pregnant in my situation. I know they didn't use birth control and I'm sure that goes for so many others here.

In all honesty, I think you are still only early days into real recovery so you need more time to work on these thoughts. But there's nothing wrong with harbouring an escape plan if things don't work out. Take care. TT

FF

There is nothing shameful about being in a Renter-Renter marriage ... that's pretty much what you have.

Pep

Understood. Only pain and stress to be gained. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

hmmmmmm... I had not looked at it that way before. My heart aspires to more but I can live with this for now as long as the A does not resume. THAT, I will not tolerate. Kind of like downgrading my expectations of him and us. Or perhaps, accepting would be the word.

EGG ZAK LEE