Heartsore is right. He is right in the midst of what you are facing and is doing extremely well through it.

I do not know who he is, and she will not tell me (I didn't really expect her to). I do know that he works where she does (it's a large hospital), but not if he works directly with her. She says that he is single, and that he was seeing another woman (for 3 years). A week after he and my wife began talking, he dumped the other lady for my wife (she doesn't see this as a red flag). That is really all I know. I would love to get his phone number so I can figure out where he lives, but my wife guards her cell phone like it's a vital organ. I have a friend that I think will be able to help me in finding out who this guy is.

I am seeing my counselor today. My hopes are that I find some way to not obsess about this. That has been my main problem all along, and it doesn't help.

Find out who he is!

You are SUPPOSED to obsess about this, bg. Your marriage and family are under attack. Affairs and threatened divorces are extremely traumatic so you will be obsessed about it. Become obsessed with busting up her affair!

Please consider counseling with the Harleys. Most counselers are NOT pro-marriage and know nothing about adultery. They cause more harm than good.

bg... Mel is right about breaking up this A being your #1 and #2,#3, #4 priority. The faster it is broken apart, the quicker you are able to get your W to withdrawal and then on to recovery.

Your W is right now like an alchaholic behind the wheel... you need to save her from herself as fast as possible.

BUT... I hear you when you talk about obsessive behavior. This is one of my faults/strengths as well. When I become focused on something or interested, I don't stop until it is finished/accomplished or I find a new focus. I need to practice balance in my life. I think it's a guy thing in that we always want to fix everything right away. We are not at peace knowing the problem is still there. I had to learn patience knowing I could not "fix" my W. When I started focusing on fixing myself... something I have control over, that's when things started to improve. But even with this, I became obsessive and this was scary to my W. Balance is important... AFTER you have done what you can to break up the A.


Patience

Shaden

bg,
Call the cell phone company right now. Right now and find out what number (that you don't know) has been called the most times. Then you can figure out who this Oak is. Or you can dig up an old cell phone bill... if the bill is hidden/destroyed, you can ask for another one to be sent to you... obviously, this won't work if she is using a company issued cell... but otherwise, this information should be easy to find. Don't go and confront the man, even though you may want to (I know I did)... the best thing to do is to find out who he is and EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. Their affair will become quite different for both of them once it is out in the open...
Heartsore

bg, Heartsore and Shaden are right. You should have no problem getting this guys' phone #. Once you get it, disguise your phone # and call his house asking for Mrs. XYZ and see what happens. It would be even better if you could hire a PI to get data on him such as parents, children, wife, etc.

Once you have all this information gathered, the affair needs to be exposed. [do not forewarn your wife or threaten her with exposure]

Good exposure targets are:

her parents
your parents
siblings
close friends
and most importantly: the Human Resource department at her place of work

You will also want to tell your children, if they old enough to understand, the truth about what is going on here. This effects their lives too, so they need to what is wrong.

I had already requested the past 3 months of cell phone bills be sent to my brothers house. I looked for a past bill, and the pages with the phone numbers is missing. I will have to wait until I get the new bills.

I told my wife last night that in order for her to start healing, she needs to tell her family. I know this was too early. She called her mother while I was in the room, so I know that she already knows. She says that she is going to notify all of her other family members, but I don't necessarily believe her.

With regards to notifying her work. It seems like that one could blow up in my face because she will automatically know who told them. Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that this guy has been lying to her about not being married. That would make things much easier.

How do I check into the counseling that you are suggesting? I went to my counselor, and she didn't really tell me much to try to save the marriage. Things like "absence makes the heart grow fonder". She also told me that what I have been doing hasn't been working (which I realize that, but it is because of what is going on), and that it is time for a change of tactic. She suggested that I sit down with my wife for 1 hr./night and develop logistical plans for the divorce. That way I am not talking about the situation and making my wife think of the emotions. I understand her point, but I have problems with the contradiction of trying to save our marriage while planning for a divorce.

Suggestions for helping me to focus on myself? It's hard to figure out what to do when we are together.

bg, the phone calls need to come FROM YOU so that:

a) the correct story gets told

b) so that you can ask for their support in helping to save your marriage from her affair

I would call her mother back and make sure she has the correct story and ask for her help.

When you get the information about the OM, you will want to expose to the Human Resourse department. When you have done this you will WANT to make sure she knows it was you. The OM needs to know this too.


Well, of course its a contradiction, because she is not PRO-MARRIAGE and doesn't have the slightest idea what to do to save your marriage. She will faciliate a DIVORCE, whereas Harley will guide you in ways to save your MARRIAGE.

Your marriage is perfectly salvagable, bg. There is absolutely no reason to throw in the towel now. none whatsoever. We have seen untold cases worse than yours that ended up in very happy marriages.

To get an appt with Harley, click on the "counseling center" link at the top of the page and it will guide you through the process. HE charges $185, but will not waste a minute of your time. He SPECIALIZES in infidelity and will help you develop a strategy to save your marriage.


No, that is stupid. You don't want to discuss divorce at all with your wife UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE DIVORCED. If she brings up divorce tell her you are not interested in discussing divorce. You will only discuss recovery.

See, this affair can be killed so you will want to drag out any divorce proceedings and make her do all the work. Don't lay down easy for her! Let her know right up front that you will not make it easy at all.

And most of all: don't leave your home!!

"Absence makes the heart grow fonder"... this is pure crap in this situation. There is a time and place for this, but not while your W is in an A. This will do the opposite.

You are correct about the contradiction. You cannot work on your marriage while discussing divorce. This can be used as a scare tactic which WILL NOT work. You calmly state that your only interest is to keep your family together and become a better husband and father.

The counselling Mel suggested can be found on this website. Look for the information at the top for the couselling centre.

Shaden

Thanks again for the advice. I will do as you are suggesting. I read the 180 and was completely amazed at all of the things that I have been doing wrong. I am making changes now. I will not be here when she gets home. My plan is to give her the impression that I can have fun and survive without her. That is what I'm interpreting the 180 to be saying. Am I wrong?

bg, just a word of warning about the 180. Where it conflicts with Plan A you will want to go with Plan A. Steve Harley is not an advocate of the 180. However, it is good in the aspect that it help you maintain control of your emotions. In that aspect it is very helpful, IMO.

Ok. I did have a question with regards to the exposure of this to my wife's HR dept. Once I find out who this guy is, how do I go about reporting it? Obviously, I will have to name both him and my wife. Am I doing this under the guise of no fraternization amongst co-workers? I just don't want to contact them and them say "so what". Also, it seems my WW will be extremely upset with me about the reporting of it, especially if I tell her I reported it. How do I deal with that?

I'm really not an idiot, just never been here before.

bg,

I have noticed over several of your posts that you are very much habitually taking your wife at her word..and her word as fact.

On the one hand..it indicates to me that you tend to respect your wife..and this is a good thing as a general indicator of your marital history..but...

I would strongly suggest that for the duration of her affair and likely during her withdrawl from her affair that you NOT do this.

Think of conversations with her as conversations with someone who is either drunk or mentally ill...and this is not condescension..this is reality.

If you could see the chemical bath her brain is getting as a result of her addiction you would find it very comparable to the above description.

She will think and feel things that are very out of character for her..she will take action that is out of character [even as recently as a few days ago you did not believe it was possible she was having even an EA ...yet it seems she has been having a PA..and for several months...] and there will be times..many of them...that you do not recognize your WIFE in these words, beliefs, and actions.

This is what we call The Alien.

The Alien isn't a friendly creature..fortunately it is a PREDICTABLE one if you are familiar with the script.

Familiarity with fogbabble is how many people here recognized that the alien was present in your marriage with ZERO hard evidence despite your protests.

I suggest you search threads that deal specifically with fogbabble and WS behavior so as to prepare your heart and mind for the onslaught of painfull rhetoric you will likely be hearing over the next few months.

Then study study study and make YOUR plans.

Oh, and to answer your above Q...

The goal of exposure is to bring the A out of the realm of fantasy and into reality.

If the HR is cooperative or has protocal that prohibits unethical etc behavior then it's gravy..but regardless of their response...the fact that the affair is known as an affair at her work = exposure.

Yes, she will be furious.

Yes, she will be very upset with any interference of her affair. Just count on it. But your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it can't survive an affair.

Let me first explain why exposure is so critical to saving your marriage. Affairs are fantasy relationships that thrive on secrecy. They are founded on deceit and fraud and are doomed to failure. When you expose an affair, it is like turning on a light in the crack house and bringing in an audience. When the affairees are forced to explain themselves to others they are forced to see how sleazy they really look to others. This is very damaging to an affair and causes huge conflict in the affair.

We have had affairs here that ended the VERY DAY they were exposed. In others, it clearly hastens their death because it RUINS the fantasy aspect.

In exposing to Human Resources, you inform HR, the head of the hospital and their supervisors that a workplace affair is taking place. Remind them that said affair leaves them wide open to harrassment and discrimination lawsuits. Tell them you are trying to save your marriage and your childrens family from this affair and ask this: "WHAT DO YOU INTEND ON DOING ABOUT IT?" <----real important

Now, they may not do anything but talk to them and tell them to knock it off. It depends on the company. But, even if they do nothing, just knowing they are exposed at work inflicts great harm on the affair. They can no longer safely carry on communications at work when everyone knows.

When your W finds out, she will be angry and will make lots of threats. Pay them no mind, it will blow over.

bg,
I just did the exposure thing and recommend you peak at my post string... I have a template for an email you could send, but also you can see many of the expert/experienced opinions at MB guiding me through the process.... it helps!
Heartsore

Question:
-My wife is pushing me big time to divorce her. She will not let it go, and has made up her mind. She is really forcing my hand, but I still don't know who this guy is. What should I do? In our state, my agreement is not required for a divorce. I still have to contact and attorney, and will be doing that first thing tomorrow.

Also, I'm afraid that she may have found this thread and has figured out what is going on. Any suggestions?

If you are bgtg1's wife,
You should know that you are living in a fog that everyone that knows you can see, but you cannot. Everyone is wondering what happened to your brain because it seems to have been donated to science... you believe you are in love with another man because he has met some unmet needs that your husband has not been meeting... but it is the fantasy and excitement/secrecy of your affair that is fueling and exaggerating your feelings. Every WW thinks they are different, that their love is the real thing, but history has proven that relationships that start out as affairs have short shelf lives ... only 5% are together after two years... less than 2% are together after 5. Yet, your marriage... the one you swore in front of all your family and friends that it was "til death do us part" has a better than 50% chance of recovering from this ordeal and becoming better than ever! Your heart is not to be trusted... but unfortunately you are probably in such a fog that you will only be able to see the truth in this message after you have already made a pattern of irreversable mistakes. Here's hoping for a cool breeze of reality to blow the fog from your life so that you can see what you are doing and stop before you ruin two lives. Good luck WW. Good luck bg........
Heartsore

bg... my advice is to stick with the plan. Find out who OM is and expose.

Do not discuss divorce. Check with your lawyer so you are prepared to know what your rights are, but you obviously do not want to divorce and should not entertain this idea.

Maintain calm and loving actions with your W. If she is reading on here, she will see that a) you do love her and are prepared to fight for her... and b) the fog she is in is very common... her fantasy is very common... and what is really valuable is the history and love that the two of you have. She can see on here that over and over again many couples recover and learn to have a stronger marriage than before. It is starting to happen for my W and I and she was on her way to separation as well. She is much happier now and realizes she made some mistakes. It is possible to get through this.

Shaden

Thank you for all of your encouragment throughout this ordeal. I know that I am not alone anymore. I have discovered this guy's name, address, date of birth, job, salary, etc. I do not know if he is married, but if I were to guess, I would say that he is not.

Should I go to her HR dept. yet? Some of her family members already know (I told her to call her mother, and made certain it happened). Her mother has not told her father, and I don't want to tell him because it would be so destructive to their relationship. Please help me with this.