Quick update.

I dropped the kids off at WW's apt. this morning. When she answered the door, she looked at me with a smile. I said goodbye to the kids and she asked me to come in. I told her that I was running late for work. She asked me for a couple of minutes. I agreed. When I got to the door, she grabbed my left arm and held onto it. She then escorted me through the apt. while holding onto me the entire time. I told her that I had to go and apologized. She looked at me and smiled, while still holding my arm. I gave her a hug and left.

I called her to apologize for not being able to visit longer. When she answered, she said "good morning" in a cheerful voice, knowing it was me. I said what I had to say and told her to have a great day. She did the same.

Was nice to see a small glimpse of her again. Still a long ways to go though.

What was that about, you think?

I'm not sure what it was about to be honest with you. I think that there is some reality sinking in with regards to the kids and our family. I would like to believe that it has to do a little bit with her feelings for me, but I think that would be wishful thinking.

I dropped the kids off this morning and we were both very nice and cordial. When I told her to have a good day, I put my hand out. She grabbed it, held it, squeezed it, hugged me, and wouldn't let go of my hand for about 30 seconds or so. I don't know what is going on in her mind to be honest with you.

One other thing. She asked me how I was doing. I told her that I was doing ok. I asked her the same question in response. She shook her head in an "I'm not sure" kind of way and answered by saying "I stay busy". What the heck does that mean?

What are your thoughts Mel?

hmmm, sounds like reality is closing in on her. A few more weeks of this and it will be time for the big B! Just keep focusing on staying as attractive as possible. You are doing great!

This sounds ideal. If she fires her attorney she should be able to get the $2,500 retainer (less $ already spent) refunded to your credit card (which I hope is still possible now that you've cancel her card). In the future, without YOUR cards she'll have to come up with her onw $2,500 or more to retain another lawyer. It's really sad that she thinks she can just use yours like it's all gonna be peaceful and friendly. Wayward fog.

Mr. Wondering

I called the credit card company last night. My WW and I both thought that I was the primary on the card. Turns out she is, and I am the authorized user. Representative said that I am not responsible for any of the debt (that would ultimately be up to the court), and that I could not remove myself. I know that she paid the retainer to her attorney on 9/10. She also put her deposit and 1st month rent for her apartment on the card. I didn't think that an apartment complex would take a credit card for that. Unknown if she has since called the attorney back and called him off or not.

I have not put a retainer down on my attorney yet. I plan to do it if/when I get served papers.

This whole thing seems like a major chess match of the heart. It's straight up craziness, but then again, she is crazy right now.

bgtg,
Sorry I haven't checked in as much lately... I guess I was a little wrapped up in my own sitch... you are getting and acting on some great advice. Your Plan A in many ways will be easier for you because you have time to 'Plan' for most of your encounters. The fact that you were busy and "had to go" was a blessing because it sent her the message that you have a life and it waits for noone (even her)... she must have been shocked that she couldn't just touch you and get you to stay?

This advice is really stuff Mr. W. has told me....

When you see your WW, ALWAYS LOOK YOUR BEST! Never show up in your rags, if it's casual, make it your most attractive casual. Always have your hair well groomed and make sure you smell good... Your wife needs to be reminded whenever she sees you that you are an attractive option AND THE FATHER OF HER CHILDREN... Plan A sounds like it is taking its effect. Mr. OM is obviously much better under a rock than he is in an open field! He probably also is wondering where these kids have all of a sudden come from... since he was having an A with someone that didn't ever seem to have them around (him)... Suddenly, instead of being Mr. Secret Special Man, he gets to be Mr. Wait Your Turn Man (like the rest of us)..... MR. SSM doesn't like being Mr. WYTM!

Lavish in the positive impact you are having, stay focused, stay strong, stay fit, and most importantly keep reminding yourself that you will be OK. You can do this!

Heartsore

Heartsore,

I have been trying to follow your sitch as well (what a thread!), but have to admit that I am selfishly wrapped up in my own case. From what I can gather, yours is going relatively well. I really appreciate your input as well as everybody else. Have you been noticing similar behavior with your WW as what I have been describing? You seem to be incredibly strong, and I have been very impressed every time I read. Matter of fact, I have thought to myself that I wish I could be so strong. I am starting to come into stride, although it is still very difficult.

Mel, Heartsore, and others,

I can tell you that I fully believe that I will be divorced within the near future. Not because I want to be, but because my wife is going to push things big time.

Tonight my kids were over at my house eating dinner. They were supposed to be with their mother, but she was at her apartment (putting together a bunk bed, maybe with some help from OM). My son and daughter have both been saying this man's name for the last couple of days because his X-Box 360 is at her apartment. They said that they know that he is a friend of their mother's at her work. I feel like he is slowly being introduced into my kids life while she is still married to me. I also feel like they are being manipulated.

I pulled my 10 year old son aside and asked him if he knew why mom and dad were separated. He said that he didn't and that he was sad and confused. I asked him if he thought that it was odd that a friend of mom's at work would let her borrow a $400 game system. He said "no". I asked him if we allow co-workers to borrow $400 items. He said "no".

I asked him if he knew what an affair was. He said "no". I then told him that he needed to ask his mother some questions. He began asking me questions, so I answered them at an age appropriate level. I explained that an affair is not a right thing to do in god's eyes, and goes against what marriage is. I also said to him that OM is more than a friend to his mother. I asked him if he knew what I meant. He said that he did, and that mom loved OM and not dad.

I told him not to tell his younger sister (7 years old), but that I did not want him to figure things out and resent his mom and dad because he had been deceived and lied to. I also explained that I have not told him for a long time because I was protecting him and his mother. I went on to tell him that I love his mother very much, as well as him and his younger sister.

I told WW that I told him. She of course became furious. She went on to say that all counselors say that kids should not be introduced to such an adult topic as an affair. I find it hard to believe that she would tell the school counselor that she is having an affair.

I'm not sure that I did the right thing, but chose to do what I could to protect my children from the hurt that they will feel when they find out.

What are your thoughts?

Yes, you did the right thing, except I would explicity explain to him that affairs are IMMORAL and give him the reasons why. <-------this is very important! Don't expect him to just "figure it out on his own!" TELL HIM and give him the guidance he needs from his father. Dr Harley, a reknowned psychologist who specializes in adultery, advises that children be told THE TRUTH. Your children very much need to know the truth and they desperately need your MORAL GUIDANCE. This is how children learn right from wrong.

If you don't tell the truth and give them guidance, they will grow up not knowing RIGHT FROM WRONG. It is your duty as a parent to TEACH them right from wrong, not to cover up your W's sleazy behavior.

It is never right to lie and deceive little children, especially when they are at risk of being dragged into a sleazy affair. So, not "all counselors say that kids" should be LIED TO. THAT IS WS FOGGED OUT BULLCRAP!

Your wife is the last person who is qualifed right now to state what is or isn't in the children's best interest, especially since she is having an affair and destroying their lives for her own selfish drives.

Mel,

I did tell him that it was wrong. I agree that my wife is the least qualified person to say what is right and wrong right now. I just feel so rotten. My son actually took things really well. He was clearly sad. He does not act the same way in front of his mother as he does in front of me. With me he is very open and wears his emotions on his sleeve. With his mother he is very guarded. I think he has always known that this was because of his mother (I think that might be because I told them that I did not want a divorce and that I loved their mother).

I do not believe that this did anything to help me in accomplishing my goal. I made absolutely certain that my son understood that I was not trying to hurt his mother or him, and that I loved his mother very much. He deserves more than to be lied to. I also tried to explain to my WW that I am not trying to hurt her, and that I have been protecting her this entire time. I also tried to explain that I did not want her children to end up hating or resenting her. She of course did not believe me and thought that I was trying to manipulate my children against her.

I have a co-worker whose wife is doing the same thing. His children are 14, 18, and 20 and they have all told him that they are to the point of hating and resenting their mother. They do not know about the affair, and he just confirmed that there was an affair this weekend.

I don't know that she will be able to get over this. I hope I'm wrong.

bg, it is not "manipulation" to tell people the truth. It is in their best interest to know the truth. Kids can deal with the TRUTH, they cannot deal with lies. You have done a GOOD THING, bg.

This might make your W mad, but it is for a good reason. This is a consequence of having an affair and that is a choice that she made. I would suggest that you also get ahold of the school counselor and tell her that you and are seperated because of your wife's affair so she can help your kids at school.

Just remember, there is nothing wrong with telling the truth, there is something very wrong with having a sleazy affair and detroying the lives of little children. She has wrecked their lives so she can act like an alley cat in heat, so don't you dare feel bad about protecting your children from her and treating her to a few consequences. If she doesn't want people to know she is having an affair, then............she shouldnt have an affair! Simple as that!

Thank you Mel.

Someday, God forbid, you may be asked to recount this conversation in detail. Your WW's attorney will be trying to use this conversation to paint YOU as an unfit parent, vindictively utilizing and exposing the children to adults matters. Please read Dr. Harley's materials on the subject and then make a detailed journal entry on the matter...even interjecting some of Dr. Harley's stuff right into the journal. You want the "exposure" to seem calm, collected, premeditated, well-reasoned & researched.

Judges and/or any court appointed counselor are individuals. You'll never know what you're gonna get. He/she may incorrectly tend to believe children should be sheltered from such matters; however, as long as you seemingly came to the conclusion to have the discussion based upon reason and professionally research advice (which you will likely have to substantiate...many people will snicker that you followed advice on the internet)...you should be OK.

Remember, it's ALL about the "childrens best interests"

Mr. Wondering

For me, strength comes from knowing what I want and having a plan. Lexapro also helps a lot! If you aren't already, you might consider getting on some anti-depressants. They keep you sharp and positive... less self-loathing... and sad. YOU CAN DO THIS! Regardless of the outcome, you CAN.

HS

Do you hear the FogBabble in what she says bgtg? Now, PEP or ORCHID could probably help here... but here is a possible reverse babble thing to say in response:

"You're right and I agree that kids should not have their family system violated by being exposed to your selfish affair"

Here is an email that I sent to my wife.

WW,
I know that you are upset and don't agree with my talking with our son last night. I also know that you think that I did it to hurt you. The fact of the matter is that it is quite the contrary. I love you more than anything in my world. You know this. I have nothing to gain by hurting you. This entire time I have not said anything to them because I was trying to protect you. But, I am tired of our children living in the dark. I am tired of lying to and deceiving them. Our son has a right to know why his life is turned upside down. He is hurting severely, but you don't see it because he is very guarded when he is with you.
You truly are my dream woman. It has always been that way. I am adjusting and learning to move on with my life, if that is what it comes to, but the path for our children will be much harder. I know that you don't agree with me, but all I can do is try to explain it to you and hope you at least understand and respect my side of things. I have always tried to consider your feelings and opinions, and whether I have agreed with them or not, I have always respected them. I have also always respected you.
I still believe in you. You are a very good mother and love your children very much. You are also a very good wife, and I pray to God many times everyday that I get to see that side of you again.

I love you,
BS

bgtg,
I believe (IMHO) that the best way to benefit from MB is to run something like that email by MB BEFORE sending... because there may be a change or two (subtle or otherwise) that may be recommended... kind of like polishing it up before sending. My instinct is that Mr. Wondering would have advised you to remove the "good parent" part, because in a divorce hearing you will arguing that in her current state of affair she is not a good parent... she wants to lie to them and expose them to a bad influence (OM) in this family.. that is not a good parent. Others may have offered other possible suggestions...

Having said that, I think that you have sent your WW a sincere message. Whether it gets through her fog is anybody's guess. But at the very least you have given her something to think about...

Moving forward you might utilize your trusted advisors BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER you've done these emails/decisions...

You are doing great with your Plan A. If your wife REALLY wants to think she can just use your lawyer, then let her believe it! In essence, she is turning over the whole divorce proceedings to you (as if you would now be doing most of the work)... but now this gives you the leverage of timing. You can drag it out as much or as long as you need to ....without incurring additional expenses... (just don't call your lawyer) to wait out the A, which is already showing signs of crumbling. Once the affair crumbles, and all indications are that it will be LUCKY TO LAST A MONTH, you will then have a chance... BUT YOU NEED TO KEEP WORKING an excellent PLAN A... this is THE KEY TO EVERYTHING.

bgtg, remember, no two sitches are the same. YOu look at my sitch and say, "wish mine looked like that", but believe me, there have been days that I looked at yours and thought yours had more hope. These days, your sitch seems like a challenge, but keep in mind, WE BOTH ARE DEALING with the worst kinds of affairs... the SOULMATE AFFAIRS with BOTH deep emotional love and passionate physical adultery. We can get through this... we can bust up the affairs... we can get our families back.... but the most important thing to keep in mind is that by doing the MB process, we become better men. Regardless of how this all plays out - we will be the better for it. We will, through this process, either recapture our WW's love and our marriages OR WE will fall out of love with our WW in the process (as they continue to make love bank withdrawals). Remember the example of Sue in SAA, the husband (John?) was pretty much no longer in love with Sue when she finally decided to come back.... THEN IT TOOK HARD WORK FROM BOTH to recover both the feelings and the M.

Good luck bgtg...

Your Friend,
Heartsore

HS,

Thank you for your suggestions. I didn't think about how the note might be used against me in divorce proceedings (I'm a slow learner, I guess).

Your thought that this A will only last a month or so is so encouraging. I hope that turns out to be true. I am planning for a much longer time frame than that. How long did your WW's last from D-Day?

Also, I am taking Lexapro as well, and have been for 3 weeks now.

I am nowhere near having an empty love bank (hard to believe given what has been happening). I certainly have rough days, but still love her completely.

She said (on Sunday) that she would be calling her attorney to call him off, but I don't know if that ever actually took place. I am not calling my attorney until I get served papers. She does not even know who my attorney is, so it will be hard for her to contact him. Hopefully, she doesn't call her attorney and force divorce papers. I can only hope that she is only angry for a short time, and does nothing.

Thanks again, and please keep posting as I need as much help as I can get.

bgtg,
My wife told me she wanted a divorce (3 weeks ago). As far as I'm concerned EVERY DAY THAT I DON'T GET SERVED D-PAPERS IS A GOOD DAY. For me, every day meant more time for PLAN A, more time to show my WW what she will be missing in me, and also give her more time to realize that I'm her best chance of finding long-term happiness. For you, EVERY DAY WITHOUT BEING SERVED means another day closer to the end of the affair and another day without going/moving backwards in the process. Keep with PLAN A. Get the lawyer control when you can.. because that WILL HALT DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS. I don't know how long the A will last... but if your WW was anything less than in the "honeymoon" still, after just a week or two after moving out and having "EACH OTHER" to themselves, this says that the A wasn't all it was cracked up to be.... WHICH IS WHY A GOOD PLAN A now is the most important thing you can do for you, your wife, and children.

HS