The topic is EXPOSURE


NOT


flaming, attacking, critiquing other posters and their posting styles. It is of NO benefit to anyone and detracts from those REALLY needing help and guidance.

Any questions,,,,,,,,email me.......

I love JustUss

I am exposing myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pep

First of all, thanks for unlocking this Justus.

You may have read that Sh**bag tried to contact my wife after almost 2 years. My wife never saw it. Unfortunately she took the brunt of my rage. I really feel like she never took the steps to ensure this did not happen.

I was the one who sent the NC letter. I threatened to destroy his miserable life piece by piece. She even told me the other day that she would have deleted the IM without telling me. You all can guess how I felt with that!

Unfortunately this piece of Cr** is divorced. There is no exposure possible.

You may not all aggree with what I am going to tell you of my plans, but this is what I need to do.

He did not heed my warning! It is time for action that he was warned about.

I will fire one volley. I know his address. His neighbors will soon receive a letter with the fact that they have a sexual predetor living among them. If he continues to try to contact my wife, his employer will receive the same letter.

Anything short of no contact will then proceed to the destruction of him financially.

My wife will know at the same time that if she ever lies to me about contact or relay of contact through her enabling friends, we will divorce!

That my friends is an ultimatum that I will follow through on!

Jeepers Justuss, you edit TOO well. How's a guy supposed to catch up on the scuttlebutt? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Mel, I understand where you are coming from. I haven't listened to the Harley radio shows. I only know what I have read on the site. I try to keep a general familiarity with many of the posters but my time on the board is limited so I do NOT know ALL the details of each person's sitch, that I freely admit. I do know that most people tend to emphasize and retain the information which best suits them.

I am not fooled by the WS's attempt to validate their reasons for not telling the OP's spouse. This is a moral issue. Perhaps it's safe to say that a WS is morally challenged in the first place so what's the sense in beating a dead horse? I know, I know...the "victim". I fully agree, it is unfinished business if the "victim" does not know.

Pepper, (correction, Star*fish)

Exactly! Not only what Harley says will not matter but, the board members as well. Dead Horse Issue.

Pepper, I do appreciate your tenacity on this topic though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was just going off on a rant ... I admit it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can't a girl pitch a fit every now and then ??? >batting my lashes<

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sorry...coming in a little late on this thread and haven't read it all... but wanted to comment.

I did expose to OMW about 4 months past DDay and establishing NC. This was done without my W's approval and with the help of members on this board, and a Pastor friend.

This was difficult as I was afraid of the consequences on my M. It was difficult because I felt many others would be hurt by the knowledge. But it was both a decision on morality and a decision to protect the future of my M.

I felt that OMW needed to know the truth for her own decisions to be made. I felt that OMW would be more free to repeat if his W was not aware. And I felt that there would be a greater temptation of contact with my W if he was not being held accountable.

Since exposure happened, they have had a difficult time but are still together working on issues. The OM THANKED me for doing what he couldn't do... he was too afraid.

It is true that the number of people who found out went up exponentially, and we went through some rough times because of it. But recovery is going well and the right thing was done.

It is a personal decision... but I wanted to show a less than "wishy-washy" opinion on the topic.

Shaden

Actually, I don't think there's anyone on the board (short of any current WW's at least) that would disagree that exposure to end the affair is CRITICAL to recovery. Absolutely the only chance that the marriage has, IMO. Even if the WS/FWS confesses, there's still no "support system" in place to ensure the end of the affair, or even to provide a supportive environment for the marriage.

I think the more tenuous subject is exposure many years down the road, if the affair has been ended and remained dead with NO contact of any kind during that time.

That is where it seems to be less of a "marriage saving tool" and more of a moral issue, especially when talking about exposure to the OPS's spouse or family.

It still has the benifit of making the OPS aware of what happened and hopefully will cause THEM to take actions to ensure that contact never resumes.

It seems to me that it could also raise the risk of contact resuming...ESPECIALLY if the exposure is done by the FWS, and not the FBS. It could also create a strain on the recovering marriage if the exposure was not POJA'd by the FBS as well.

Again, an opinion. Personally, my situation never faced this choice, since OM was not in any kind of relationship as far as I (with a LOT of background research) could tell.

And if contact of ANY kind occurs, then I'm of the opinion that constitutes a continued affair (at least on the part of whoever attempted the contact) and should immediately result in exposure to the OPS by the BS.

The other "grey area" imho is the FWS's responsibility if the FBS refuses to expose and will not agree to the FWS making exposure contact with OPS.

Again, my take on things.

Please let us not forget it can also be a health/life saving tool regardless if its years post-A. Do I even have to spell it out?

STDs

Why in the world does everyone choose to ignore this issue? Its friggin REAL. I know, BTDT.

What's wishy washy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The man (Dr. Harley) wrote:
Paraphrase:
"I always recommend that the OPS be told". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes,
what else can he do but recommend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
After all,
He's NOT your squad leader, boss, your parent or your God.

Its no different then if he was counseling you and you steadfastly refused to use Radical Honesty or any other principle.
He can't make you .......but he sure as heck can encourage and recommend that the 2 of you "do it".

He's given his say.
Its what he'd Like/prefer to see happen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
If you won't,
then to him ----fine .......do the other things he's written.

You know what? I am a FWW, and I exposed MYSELF!! I told my parents and my friends. OM was not married/no GF. BH actually made me give up one of my friends because I told her. He said, "great, now everyone knows I was cuckolded." But it was after the EA was over and NC firmly in place. He was even a little upset I went to my bishop and confessed and was given steps to do towards repentance.

Are there some BS's who just dont' want people to know, and if the A is over and there has been NC, they feel it is all right to not expose?

Isn't exposing generally to help end the affair? though I see the value of exposing so it never becomes an issue in the future...

Why should a BS Expect any Amends from your FWS........If you decide,
that you owe nothing to the OTHER marriage that YOUR Spouse was unjustly attacking?

Yes,
there were 2 marriages involved [yea, NOT just yours --but 2].......

and YOUR spouse (to the OPS) WAS the Intruder/attacker.

The least you owe them (as a CONSEQUENCE of YOUR Spouses Actions) is to reveal to them the Existence of the A itself.

What they do after that (just Like when you were Fortunate enough to find out) is Up to Them.

B2M,

…”VS. – he faces OM and tells him "you know pal. If you ever get close to my wife or ever contact her in any way again, I'm going to ****EDIT******".

THAT would be so sexy and attractive to ME - my man fighting for me, as a man.”

That is exactly what I did. The edit is appropriate, too.

FWW, said all I was doing was “peeing on my territory”. She did not find it romantic at all.

But OM took for the hills just the same.

It is a personal decision... but I wanted to show a less than "wishy-washy" opinion on the topic.

Shaden,

I'm glad this decision has been a positive one for you and your marriage. Even with inevitable fallout of such a decision it's hard to imagine a negative outcome.

What's wishy washy?

The man (Dr. Harley) wrote:
Paraphrase:
"I always recommend that the OPS be told"

When someone is told 'but, only with the enthusiastic agreement of the BS', I see that as wishy washy. Since when did exposure become a POJA issue? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

How appropriate for you to bring that up.

IMO,
exposure is NOT a POJA issue.

Its just not.

Does anyone give the Advice to GO to your WS and "ask" for permission to expose them to the OPS??
Of course NOT!

This is an area that supercedes this issue. [at least where the other Injured Party is concerned]

Why?
Cause the Infidelity preceded ANY POJA.
Hence,
it is up to whichever spouse has an Actual conscience to TELL the OPS.

Get this:
POJA concerns issues between YOU and YOUR spouse.

Unfortunately,
because of YOUR spouse's ACTIONS and poor decisions .......on this subject .....you've included the OPS into the Equation (and therefore THE Discussion) by default.
Therefore you don't get the luxury of arbitrarily deciding for them,
as THEY ARE part of the situation .......no matter HOW Pretty you try to wrap the bow up to the Contrary.

They have just as much a RIGHT as either of the other 3 members of the infidelity Rectangle to KNOW the truth.
For a whole host of reasons.

What you really have some misguided belief that You somehow have Claim on the truth of what's been going on in NOT ONE .....but TWO Marriages??
Of which YOUR Spouse was the Perpetrator (yes, to the OPS they were).
Really??
How Arrogant you must be to actually Believe that is somehow YOUR domain, and therefore decision to make.

Guess your just sooooo lucky that you happened to be the One to Find out first, Huh??

Yes indeed though:
Agree with Starfish,
that it of course should be Done as EARLY as possible.

But if NOT done early,
the same rules/conditions still apply ........Just more complicated and uncomfortable to execute.

The same obligation is there ......one difference is that the exposing BS is simply cheating themselves out of the maximum benefit (to themselves ) by Not exposing Early.
The OPS gets the same benefits at whatever point they find out.

So just cause your getting LESS out of the deal (by your own PROCRASTINATING) .....doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
And if that's your Reasoning ......then your falling into the same SELFISHNESS Trap that permitted the 2 Affaires to DO what They Did TO YOU.

Let me get this straight,
So its somehow NOT right when a WS goes about fulfilling their selfish desires .....but when You do it (for little more then Selfish reasons) .....it now magically is??
Interesting!

Give me a break.
Just as EVERY Person that commits adultery KNOWS (at the time) it's Wrong to do so--
SO TOO,
does EVERYONE that doesn't [at the minimum] Inform the OPS of at Least the existence of the A ...Knows That "that" is Wrong as well.

*****************************************************************************
By the way,
this is for the new people and for Ya'll out there Lurking behind the scenes.
Yea, we see you .....heee, he , he

The Goal is NOT to change the minds of those already with their Firm Decisions to protect the A and A partner .....rather then the other Betrayed Person.
Nope,
my goal is to counter point any and all that are misguided enough to Protect the A,
with further deception.
Cause that's what it is .......aiding and abetting the A, after the fact.

Then Hopefully,
any that are reading & still have an open enough mind --
can make the decision to DO THAT [which almost universally] BS's would have wanted DONE for them when they too were on the OutSide Looking In.

My 2 cents..

Exposure to end the A is a "Turkeys don't POJA Thanksgiving" matter (ref. Bob Pure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

Exposure after the A is ended and there is solid NC ?
I think telling the OPS still is an important safety measure.
It's really the BS who should do this exposure.
If they don't for some misguided reasoning (not really understanding the importance of it) or because of CA..
And the WS wants to do it...
Just do it in a way that does not include contacting the OP.

Me.
Not that I care if people know or not (so much) but they had nothing to do with my XWH's affair, nor with my weak points prior to my XWH affair as well, so why botter them...
(OW was not married, so I had no "moral" issue here to say to her H)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, all women are not the same... some like a jerk some a knight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Top Rope... agree with everything except this...




I believe the OPS also gets cheated out of maximum benefit the longer they wait to expose. Everything I have read points to the idea that forgiveness takes longer when time has gone on. This is because, even though there may be years of "good marriage" in between, the OPS now questions all of this and wonders how much was a lie. Everything is under a microscope of mistrust.

Shaden

IRL situation:

Neighbor down the street, just neighbors, not all that close, mentioned a while back in passing his W’s mother had an entangled affair about 20 years ago. Only the one affair. It burnt out like they tend to do at around 2 years.

How we got to that conversation is a long story, but it was in the context of his W’s peculiar actions at the time.

He said his FIL never did find out. And he said their (the parents’) M was cold and un-inviting. His MIL would not engage much in anything FIL wanted to do together. She did not even want to celebrate their 50’th anniversary. He wanted a party for all their friends and family. She would not agree to even acknowledging the occasion.

This couple is old. Now in their late 70’s or early 80’s.

Point the first: Secrets like this really do destroy long term intimacy. Dr Harley is right once again.

Neighbor flatly rejects my repeated advice to POJA exposure with his W to her father.

Point the 2: Neighbor’s W is exhibiting some of her mother’s behavior. Children do learn, even when not aware of what they are learning.

Question 1: As a guilty bystander, do I expose to the FIL anyway? Over the specific objections of neighbor? What if FIL has a heart attack or something after I expose? Worse, what if he leaves MIL and moves in with the neighbors?

His in-laws do not have 20 years left to rebuild a new M. But then, they probably have at least six months to build a newer M.

Note: It would not be easy for me to expose to the FIL. I do not know where they live and they only come through once or twice a year. And I have no proof whatsoever. I have talked to him once or twice while walking through the neighborhood in the past few years though.

I am not making this up.