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posted over from "emotional need" on advice from member:
This is my 1st post.... last night I agreed to a one month separation and we sat the kids (11 & 7) down and explained the situation.
I do not know all the acronu=yms, so I won't try at this point. a few months ago my wife told me she was not happy and did not know if she wanted to be married. This came out of the blue for me and it turned ut she had begun a brief but intense emotional affair with a man who was in the midst of a nasty divorce that the community all knew about. The community also new about the relationship between my wife and him. It all came out after the night we had our "crisis" blowout (she left to get some stuff for breakfast and didnt get home till 3AM). Through the weekend we talked and she told me about him, but it was "just a great frienship and he was so easy to talk to and you were not".
We talked it through and began to make strong progress over the next 2 months. I began individual counseling and she actually saw the counselor twice but quit going because she didn't feel like she had anything to talk about to the counselor and that we were talking well together. We attended a Gottman weekend seminar and found it very helpfull.
But I began to get more detailed info from people about the extent of their relationship and that she was not being honest with me about it even though I asked many differnet times and ways to ellicit the truth. I should have tuned out those wnating to "help" and worked with my wife and counselor, but I didn't. I read advice about exposing hte affair and so I sent an anonymous e-mail to a number of people about the other man and what had happened. Well, that got forwarded like wild fire and someone suggested I had done it. I finally had to admit to my wife that I had indeed been that stupid, but that I loved her so much I did something I wish I could take back a hundred times.
Long and short of it, she told me she needed me to leave so she could cool down and figure out if she could ever love me again. So here I am, separated from my wife, kids, and hole for 30 days (all of Sept.) She has agreed to go to couples counseling (I negotiated it as part of the separation) which begins next Thursday. I am having trouble concentrating on anything. Work is suffering. I am focusing on my kids, but the thought of not seeing them everyday is like a knife in the guts.
I am feeling very alone and the only support groups I can find are all religious based and I am not at all inclined toward that path right now. I have to find a way to stay sane for 30 days and to return to my house as the husband and father I want to be and my wife wants me to be. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.
Not sure when I will be pain free and whole again, but working on it.
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Go back home. If your wife has a problem with that then she should move out. She's the one changing the rules, not you, so why should your life have to change so dramatically.
You are giving her the time and space to continue her EA.
I'm so sorry you find yourself in this wretched situation but try to keep strong and consistent in your behaviour. Your children will need a lot of support from you. TT
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Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here, but it's the best place you could find under the circumstances. . . . last night I agreed to a one month separation and we sat the kids (11 & 7) down and explained the situation. Okay - what exactly did you agree to, and what exactly did you tell the kids? My time is short right now and I will not be posting over the holiday weekend - keep that in mind, because these boards always get slow over weekends and holidays - but let me hit the high points right now. We talked it through and began to make strong progress over the next 2 months. I began individual counseling and she actually saw the counselor twice but quit going because she didn't feel like she had anything to talk about to the counselor and that we were talking well together. We attended a Gottman weekend seminar and found it very helpfull. Not sure what you mean by "progess", but everyone here can tell you that counseling is a waste of time and money as long as the WS (wayward spouse) is still carrying on their affair. They will happily lie to the counselor and use the sessions to say, "See, I tried", when it was really just a bone to shut you up. I'll bet it worked, too, didn't it? But I began to get more detailed info from people about the extent of their relationship and that she was not being honest with me about it even though I asked many differnet times and ways to ellicit the truth. All WS lie. Every last one of them. Until she comes out of the "fog" - which is MB speak for "pulls her head out of her butt" - you can assume she is lying to you about just about everything. I should have tuned out those wnating to "help" and worked with my wife and counselor, but I didn't. I read advice about exposing hte affair and so I sent an anonymous e-mail to a number of people about the other man and what had happened. Well, that got forwarded like wild fire and someone suggested I had done it. I finally had to admit to my wife that I had indeed been that stupid, but that I loved her so much I did something I wish I could take back a hundred times. No, no, YOU got it right! As I said, your wife is simply using the counseling to shut you up, and most "marriage counselors" are anything but pro-marriage. What they *will* do is help you feel good about getting a divorce. No, as you will see here, exposing her affair is the very best thing you could have done. Keep reading some of the other threads on this board. Several other BHs (betrayed husbands) are being coached through exposure right now. Don't worry - you got it right. Do NOT apologize to your WW for trying to stop her from destroying your family. Long and short of it, she told me she needed me to leave so she could cool down and figure out if she could ever love me again. So here I am, separated from my wife, kids, and hole for 30 days (all of Sept.) No - no - no. You got the exposure right, but if you want to save your marriage the WORST thing you can do is move out of your home. "I need to cool down and see if I still love you" just means, "I want freedom to carry on my affair without you bugging me about it." Dude - get yourself back home. NOW. If your name is on the deed, she cannot throw you out unless she has a restraining order. Hear this, if nothing else: If you don't get home NOW, all you've done is make it very very easy for her to bring her boyfriend home, introduce him to your children, and screw him in your marital bed. And don't think she won't. This board is littered with BSs (betrayed spouses) who NEVER, EVER thought their spouses would do such a thing - but they sure as h*ll did. So - first - GO HOME. Unless you want to hand over your wife, your kids and your house to the OM free and clear, GO HOME. Many others will be along soon with more advice. Keep reading here. BUT GO HOME FIRST!!! Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Yes, go back home!!! Read about plan A and plan B...Read all the articles here. You came to the right place, you'll get alot of support and more importantly GREAT advice!!! To new betrayed spouses. I hope you are fortunate to find this site early - which means before you have a chance to go too far down the wrong path in dealing with your new challenge.
I'll offer you what I call WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. Think of it sorta like affair First Aid, or a life preserver - not the answers, just something to help in the initial confusion.
This fills a void I think that exists for guidance in the early stages of an affair when most are caught off guard and feel hopeless. This comes from my personal experience and from the descriptions of many other betrayed spouses I have read about for many months. I believe this to be consistent with Marriage Builders principles, but I acknowledge I am an amateur and no one should act on this advice alone.
OK, here it is:
WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses
Rule 1: Don't try to make sense out of what's happening. You are not dealing with rational people, so your normal thought processes won't work. This is exactly why you're confused. Your spouse will act as if he/she has been abducted by aliens and had their brains scrambled. Just watch and don't take any of this personally. If you can do it calmly, confront your spouse with any solid evidence you have of the affair, but expect denials and lies beyond belief.
Rule 2: Don't be in a hurry. There is little, if anything, you can directly do to separate the affairees. They have to do this on their own. The affair will end. To hasten it's end, do not interfere with it. The fact is that there may be almost nothing you can do right now to make it better but there is a WHOLE LOT you can do to make it worse. On the other hand, there is a LOT you can do indirectly to compel the affairees to end the affair on their own. Read this post and all its responses: On revealing the affair to the light of day
Rule 3: All snooping is good and necessary - but be ready for an ANGRY reaction if your snooping is detected. Refer to Rule 1. Think NOT of snooping as disrespectful spying, but as necessary affair research. If caught, you will be accused of "invading my privacy!" Respond, "No, I was revealing your secrecy." In some cases, contacting the OP may be beneficial, but in other cases, a disaster. Read this post and all it's responses: On contacting the OP
Rule 4: Don't beat yourself up for "causing" the affair. You are partly responsible for creating the environment which made the affair possible, and you need to examine yourself critically to see what changes you need to make, but you are NOT responsible for your spouse's decision to have an affair. Nonetheless, your wayward spouse will likely accuse you of all sorts of misdeeds, rewrite your marital history exaggerating trivial issues, and shift blame to you in their attempt to lessen their guilt and justify their decisions. In affairs, culprits abound except in the mirror.
Rule 5: This will likely be the worst experience of your life. You are a prime candidate for depression, so see a doctor if you feel like you're having difficulty coping. You may need anti-depressants. You are also a prime candidate for your own affair. DON'T DO IT!
Rule 6: Do not recruit your spouse's family in an attempt to "help." If they ask questions, answer honestly, but in the long run, do not expect their support - if you get it anyway, consider it a bonus. Blood IS thicker than mud. Read this post and all its responses: On involving/informing the WS's family
Rule 7: Do not expect too much right away from the wayward spouse even if they have already ended the affair. It may feel like you are they only one who is trying to save the marriage. You are not a doormat, just a loving, faithful spouse.
Rule 8: You will be told by well intending "advisors" to "Throw him/her out!!!" or, "Say good bye and don't look back!!" Instead of following this advice, learn everything you can from books, websites like this one, and counselors about the ways to find the silver lining in this cloud. Seek advice as soon as possible.
Rule 9: In ongoing affairs, if your spouse's OP is also married, consider informing the OP's spouse if you know their identity. The purpose for this is to reveal the affair on the other side which may motivate the OP to end it. This should not be done without guidance. Read this post and all its responses: On informing OP's spouse of the affair
Rule 10: Your situation is not likely to be unique. The actions and statements of affairees are surprisingly similar. You can gain understanding and support from just about anybody else who has experienced an affair.
WAT Go here... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html
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We told them Mom and Dad were having problems getting along and that Dad was going to be staying at Uncle Bobs for one month. I would be seeing them all the time, everything was going to get better, Mom and Dad were going to see a counselor to help us out, and that I would be back in one month. They got their calendars and marked it down.
As for the other man, I know she is not seeing or communicating with him, and she would NEVER let him near our house. She is a mother bear when it comes to our kids and that would never fly, especially with our 11 year old daughter around, she would throw a hysterical fit. In fact, several of my friends called the other man and told him to get lost. He called my wife and told her they were not talking/seeing each other ever again. She called me in a rage because she thought it was me.
She is also extremely angry at me because I confrnted her best friend. This friend actually agreed to let my kids spend the night at her house so my wife could go to the other mans house "to hang out" till 4AM. This happened while I was on a business trip the day before we had our blowup (May 24th was D-day). Now her friend will not speak to me. Believe it or not, the "girlfriends" and my wife said this was being a suportive friend and would have done the same thing. The best friend says she would rather know my kids were safe weather or not she agreed with my wifes decision. I say [censored]!
I want to go home, believe me, but we talked for an hour yesterday about respect and integrity. I agreed to stay at my brothers for a month and she agreed to counseling once a week thru the end of the year. I don't know that I want to give up the counseling.
Not sure when I will be pain free and whole again, but working on it.
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Go back home!!!!
Counseling is worthless if she's still having the A. You can do much more for your marriage and your family by being in your home than any MC could do. If she wants to separate from you, let HER do it.
GO HOME!!!!
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Hey TT,
I hear you. My wife is using the kids as a "chip" in the negotiations and making me feel like the bad guy at every turn. One f them was: "If you love your kids it will be you who leave." She explained that we can play a lot of it off as business travel (she is a stay at home mom) and also that if she left they would be confused and devestated and if I made her take the kids and leave that would be even more devastating to them.
She has agreed to go to counseling once a week for the rest of the year if I agre to this one month separation.
I do know that the EA is over. I have freinds who confronted the OM and I am now told he has moved on to another married woman in the school district. I have checked all communication methods and nothing since July 14th. This is the day I and a few other guys in the neighborhood called him.
We were doing OK together until I decided I had to expo se the Afair and got caught out in a lie (I said it wasn't me). I just want to find some level of trust and work from that and keepeing my word about the one month separation and being respectful seem to be part of acheiving that.
No matter what, GOD I HURT!
Not sure when I will be pain free and whole again, but working on it.
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Agreeing to be separated while your wife is in an affair (and she is in an affair) is the worst idea ever. Go home. Seriously, what does your wife need that she cannot have when you are around the house? Space? Time alone? That's all false and you know it. If I need space I go in another room, I don't move to another freaking house! There is only one reason the wayward spouse asks the betrayed spouse to leave: To make it easier to continue their methods of infidelity. Go home if you want this marriage to work. Period. As for the other man, I know she is not seeing or communicating with him, and she would NEVER let him near our house. She is a mother bear when it comes to our kids and that would never fly, especially with our 11 year old daughter around, she would throw a hysterical fit. In fact, several of my friends called the other man and told him to get lost. He called my wife and told her they were not talking/seeing each other ever again. She called me in a rage because she thought it was me. Do me a favor and slap yourself across the face a few times. You are in what's called the betrayed spouse fog. You think your wife is rational and responsible, but this is not true when they are in an affair. Snap out of it! She'll act like a rebellious teenager until this thing is completely over. Exposure is great. You did good there (except for the getting caught part, but oh well). Don't apoligize for exposing. Just say you are doing it to defend and protect your wife and family that you love. Tell your parents and hers what is going on. Forget about being embarrassed, the more the affair is exposed to people who's opinions matter to her, the more the fantasy will die.
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I want to go home, believe me, but we talked for an hour yesterday about respect and integrity. I agreed to stay at my brothers for a month and she agreed to counseling once a week thru the end of the year. I don't know that I want to give up the counseling. Look you are getting good advice and I am sorry you have to be here. Please listen to what others are telling you about going home. I have your quote about respect and dignity. You must know your wife has not been showing you either? You were not wrong to expose her cheating. As a matter of fact the only thing you did wrong was to feel sorry about doing it. You should not be leaving the house. Why should she get to cheat and have full access to the kids? And you also talked above about her being a "Mother Bear" when it comes to the kids but then you also say she left her kids at her friends to be with the OM (other man). That does not sound like a good mom to me. It sounds like she is trying to destroy you and you are agreeing to it. I don't think you realize yet what you are up against. If you want to save your marriage the worse thing you can do is to give her space to cheat. If she wants space to cheat let her move out. Good luck and try and listen to the advice from other experts.
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MadWyn,
Do you want to save your marriage? If you do, then you need to stop listening to your wife. Please, go home a fight for your marriage and family. She's not the same woman you married. She's not who you think she is.
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MadWyn - I hope you realize that your walking away from your wife and children and marital home CAN and WILL be seen as abandonment under the law.
It won't matter what your reason was for leaving.
If you want your family, GO HOME NOW. Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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This woman is playing you like a violin. And it's working, every bit of it. My wife is using the kids as a "chip" in the negotiations and making me feel like the bad guy at every turn. One f them was: "If you love your kids it will be you who leave." What a dreadful thing for her to say to you. The only thing worse was your agreeing to it. She explained that we can play a lot of it off as business travel (she is a stay at home mom) So - her solution to this is more lies? For the record, "Mom and Dad aren't getting along" is also a lie. Well, it's true you are not getting along, but that did not happen for no reason and your kids are smart enough to know that. People don't just "stop getting along." The truth is, "Mom is dating another man. Married people are not supposed to date." Now, if that just took your breath away, think what the kids will feel after you and WW lie to them about what's really wrong and they find out years later what really happened. Kids need the truth. They KNOW Mommy is up to something, and if you don't explain it they can grow up with a very distorted moral sense. more later - go home! Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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MadWyn - I hope you realize that your walking away from your wife and children and marital home CAN and WILL be seen as abandonment under the law.
It won't matter what your reason was for leaving.
If you want your family, GO HOME NOW. Mulan Right, doesn't it only take 30 days to be declared to have abandoned your family?
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OK, i hear you all and can not make this happen immediately. I will be trying, but want to give it to the 1st counseling session which is next Thursday, Sept. 7.
Quick question: I am staying in my home overnight with my children on the Sept. 9th while Wife is away at a wedding she is helping coordinate. Won't this negate the 30 days abondonment potential right there?
Not sure when I will be pain free and whole again, but working on it.
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and also that if she left they would be confused and devestated And they are not confused and devastated by YOUR leaving??? and if I made her take the kids and leave that would be even more devastating to them. No. No. No. If she leaves because of her affair, that's HER choice and the kids stay in the family home with YOU. It should be over your dead body that she takes those kids out of the house to go be with her boyfriend. She has agreed to go to counseling once a week for the rest of the year if I agre to this one month separation. Here, let me translate her words for you: "I'll throw MadWyn a crumb by telling him I'll go to counseling, even though counseling doesn't mean a rat's butt to me while I'm still seeing my boyfriend. But by telling him this crap, I can get him out of the way for at least a month so my boyfriend and I can enjoy ourselves in peace." I do know that the EA is over. Okay. Maybe. We'll see. But please prepare yourself to find out that it was not just an EA. I have freinds who confronted the OM and I am now told he has moved on to another married woman in the school district. I have checked all communication methods and nothing since July 14th. This is the day I and a few other guys in the neighborhood called him. Well, good on you for calling him - but MadWyn, women don't order their husbands out of the house over an affair that they aren't having. We were doing OK together until I decided I had to expose the Afair and got caught out in a lie (I said it wasn't me). Don't worry about it. You did the right thing by fighting back to defend your family. Do not apologize to her for this again. Just tell the truth next time. Defending your family against intruders is something to be proud of, not something to hang your head over. I just want to find some level of trust and work from that and keepeing my word about the one month separation and being respectful seem to be part of acheiving that. Finding the level of trust is HER job right now, not yours. As long as you are honest with her, you have nothing to worry about. And listen - the only thing worse than breaking a promise is keeping a bad one. If you keep the bad promise of abandoning your family, and think that abandoning your family and leaving it open to an OM is "being respectful", then I guarantee you WILL lose that same family. Your wife is setting you up for this right now. GO HOME. If she freaks out, and she probably will, just calmly tell her that you realize you made a terrible mistake on every level by walking out. Then just put your stuff away and go about your business. Let her scream and yell all she wants. Just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way" and go watch TV or something. What is she going to do? Call the police? Tell them she's having an affair and wants you out of the way but you rudely moved back into your own house with your own children??? Go Home. Now. Stop being afraid of your WW. She is manipulating you and bullying you like crazy. No matter what, GOD I HURT! Of couse you do - but you are going to hurt one h*ll of a lot worse if you don't put on your armour and start fighting to save your family. This is war, MadWyn. Don't give up before it's even started. Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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***OK, i hear you all and can not make this happen immediately.***
The heck you can't! Right this minute, you should be packing up your stuff and heading straight back home. Your next post here should come from your own PC at your house.
***I will be trying, but want to give it to the 1st counseling session which is next Thursday, Sept. 7.***
So, let's get this straight: You are willing to leave your WW wide open to the OM, and let your children suffer hour after hour wondering why you left, because you think this is "being respectful?"
I think you will be shocked at how little counseling is going to help this. Do you have a pro-marriage counselor? And if you do, how can you work on your marriage WHEN YOU ARE NOT THERE???
***Quick question: I am staying in my home overnight with my children on the Sept. 9th while Wife is away at a wedding she is helping coordinate. Won't this negate the 30 days abondonment potential right there?***
Oh, Madwyn, for heaven's sake - why don't you ask your two children if this makes THEM feel any less abandoned?
"Well, Daddy came home once in a month, so I guess that negates our being abandoned . . . "
Think! Think! We have seen other BH like you. Some of them lost everything because they were scared to death of their WW's anger and just sat back and did everything their WWs told them to do. Please don't let this happen to you. Mulan
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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MadWyn,
Don't wait for the 7th. Move back in tomorrow!!!
She'll tell you that she won't go to counseling. She'll tell you alot of things.
You will have the most chance for recovering YOUR marriage and protecting YOUR children if you are living inside YOUR house with YOUR family.
GO HOME AS FAST AS YOU CAN!
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Madwyn,
I'm so sorry you're hurting this bad and for the things you're having to go through. You don't deserve this treatment from your wife. Its betrayal and its wrong.
I'm about to say some things that may seem stern, but I think you need to hear and consider them.
First, you did nothing wrong when you exposed your wife's affair. She is only using that as an excuse to get you out of the house so she can participate, unimpeded, in this illicit affair with OM.
Secondly, if anyone needs to move out of the marital home its her.
I've been in your shoes Madwyn, so I know the devistation and hurt you're experiencing. But you need to pull yourself up by your boot straps with every bit of strength left and get back in that house, PRONTO! Your children need you because you are the only sane parent they have right now.
Its time to man up, Madwyn. We're here to help and support you. What say you?
Jo
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Madwyn, you are making dreadful strategic mistakes by moving out. Seperation is only a TRIAL for divorce and if oyu think your W won't have her honey over you are due for a huge reality check. She will and this is the reason she wants you gone. You cannot work on your marriage if you are not there so there is absolutely no LEGITIMATE reason to move out. Many courts view this as abandonment.
If anyone is to move out, it should be your WIFE since she wants the seperation to accommodate her affair. You have simply made it very easy and accommodating for her to faciliate her affair.
You need to GO HOME NOW before she changes the locks and then you have NO CHOICE about it. Then you will have to go get a court order to get back into your own home, IF you can get back in AT ALL. Since you dumped them, she may be able to get an order to KEEP YOU OUT! In the meantime, your wife's stud will be freely coming in taking your place. GO HOME NOW! This is a HUGE MISTAKE!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Now, just WHY are you moving out? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I have read over your posts 2-3 times and I still don't get it. All I see is an angry, embittered wayward wife who is angry that you RIGHTFULLY interfered with her affair. She is throwing a FIT. And you move out because an entitled, fogged out, wayward ALIEN is throwing a FIT over your interference in her SLEAZY BEHAVIOR? As her husband, you are supposed to interfere.
Madwyn. Please. STOP AND THINK. Will the real FOGHORN stand up? Because I cannot tell who is more fogged out, you or the alien wayward. This is a BONEHEADED plan that does nothing. Appeasing an angry, self centered FIT will get you nothing, except maybe resumption of the affair and a complete LOSS of respect from your wife.
Madwyn, if you want to save your marriage, then you need to MAN UP and stop reacting to her fits and do, INSTEAD, what is best for your marriage and your kids. And moving out to appease a fit throwing TYRANT ain't it. That only HARMS your marriage, harms your legal position, and greatly harms your children. Your children need you NOW more than ever, and waht do you do? Run over to "Uncle Bob's" at their greatest time of need! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
GO HOME NOW!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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