That would probably be an interesting endeavor to find out your "rights," but you don't need to do that in order to go to your own home. It is your home and you don't need an attorney to know you can go there!

Primarily, I thought it wise MadWyn should check with an attorney regarding his rights in case once he's moved back in (this Saturday) and then absent for a couple days from home due to business travel, that his wife cannot legally remove his belongings and change locks during his absence.

Jo

So tomorrow imy 1st Couple counseling session and I am already shaking with fear. I am afraid of what I am going to hear. I receive nothing but contempt from wife right now. She can't even be civil to me on the phone. I am trying to do my best plan A but it feels like anything I do backfires and turns into another bullet she uses against me. I do not know how much I can take without drugging myself into a catatonic state.

I know I am supposed to be sure I will be alright no matter what but it doesnt fel that way. I snooped and she is looking at divorce.net. That is the 1st time I have seen that and it scares me to death. I am afraid she is going to make some decisions while both our emotions are running high that we will regret later. I feel like I am being dragged under the water and cannot swim back up for air. Ths just seems to get worse and worse.

I want the pain to stop.

it will be harder for your WW to de-humanize you in person, face to face

be sure you keep eye contact with her if she starts going off on you ... just look directly at her

when appropriate, say "That really hurts to hear."

when appropriate, say "You must be hurting too."

use this time to listen more than to express your own agenda

be alert to any verbal traps...

Pep

Define "verbal traps" for me........ I don't have anything left to hide, I confessed to the exposure e-mails. I am really stuggling here. My brain is frozen, I don't know what to expect from CC tomorrow. I am afraid she is going to say "this is it, the only reason I am here is to make the divorce as easy on the kids as possible" and that I will fall to pieces and be incapable of coherent thought.

I want to fight for my marriage, but can I really do it alone? Is that what Plan A is about? I want things to begin to go right instead of every step seeming wrong. Anything I say these days is taken as a love buster. I can't even drop off the kids after soccer practice without something being my fault.

I feel like I want to give up, but I don't want to. I am so confused and so scarred.

MadWyn,

May I ask you a very personal question?

Why do you allow your wife to define reality for you?

Educate yourself.

For example...LBs are very specific...they fall into categories...they are not "anything that WW doesn't like".

Fault is specific.

WWs plans are not YOUR plans and that is *OK*.

Focus on YOUR plans and YOUR education and YOUR behavior and stop waiting for a falling down drunk to agree with you and smile when you suggest she leave the addiction behind her.

She won't. She will be angry, hatefull, spitefull, and ugly.

She will say whatever she thinks will hurt you most..and she knows you well enough to aim accurately.

The problem is that there simply is no alternative...no way out but through.

Appeasement will not work. Reason will not work.

WSs respect strength and even then only because they have to.

So be strong. The way to be string is to gain knowledge, skill, and good counsel. All of these things are available to you.

Put your eyes on THAT and not the distractions your wife is lobbing at you.

hi Madwyn. Wanted to comment some.


This is EXACTLY what WH did at our first counseling session. I am NOT telling you that to scare you even more--I am telling you that so you will see what you are up against and 2--that you will see that your WW is not unique--that what she is doing is generally scripted--and has all been done before.

Also, have you read LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by Dobson?
I really think you should. It helped me TREMENDOUSLY. I read it before the CC. I devoured it really fast. So if you can get your hands on it, read it ASAP.

As for being incapable of a coherent thought--prepare yourself now. I mean this. IF she says what you think she will-and this is highly possible given her fogged out state--be prepared. Have your own script so to say. Emotionally be ready for the script she will follow and has probably rehearsed herself some today.

If she says that she wants to make it easy on the kids and D "nicely"

Tell her in a nice, calm voice--

WW, I love you and will not take a part in destroying the lives of our family--including yours. Tell her that she is free to do what she pleases. but you'll play no part in holding her hand as she divorces you "nicely". Remind her divorce is not nice. Never has been or will be. Tell her you're in this for the long haul--you take your vows seriously.

AND do all of this without tears if possible. When the session is over, run to your car and scream and cry, etc. But If you can, hold it together. SHow her your strength, Madwyn. Show her you're fighting for her.

And keep plan A'ing.

On another note--have you confirmed no-contact? Done any spying? Lunch break checks? Is your WW a teacher also with OM teacher?

And p.s.--it's true that CC will not work when the affair is ongoing--so remember that. It will help you make sense of her nonsense babble.

Also, noodle wrote this to you and I wanted to echo this. Forever I was scared/confused that doing something that would upset WH wa a LB. Not true. It is okay to stand up for you. WW will not like it, but that is NOT a LB.

You must stop being afraid of her anger.

There is nothing worse you could do in a situation like this.

She is absolutely counting on your being too afraid to stand up to her. As long as you remain cowed and fearful like a whipped puppy, YOU HAVE LOST.

You MUST understand this.

Somewhere you got the idea that the way to fix this is to appease your WW. So, you tell her eveything she wants to hear, give her everything she wants, and do everything she wants -- even when that means slinking out of your own house with your tail between your legs and letting your own children wonder where you are.

Do you honestly believe any woman could love and respect a man like that??? They won't - and that goes double for your WW.

We are trying our best to make you understand that this is the WORST thing you could possibly do in this situation.

You must find your courage and stop letting her scare you and run you out of your own home.

Tell yourself that no matter how angry and screaming she gets (and she will), no matter what she threatens you with (and she will), no matter what she says or does, you will NOT NOT NOT allow her to frighten you with her tantrums and her threats to leave.

You will sit down calmly in your own house with your own kids and let her rage like a lunatic if she wants - but you will NOT let her run you out of your own home or frighten you with her threats.

And if she threatens to leave you, or even if she DOES pack her bag and stomp out, just wave bye-bye and say "Well, sorry you feel that way. We'll miss you. See you in court. Did you know leaving the marital home is abandonment? I guess the judge can explain that to you. Have a nice day."

She does this because she knows it works on you. If it stops working, she'll stop doing it.

DID I SAY TO STOP LETTING HER SCARE YOU???

Bottom line, Madwyn: If you cannot find the courage, the manhood, the intestinal fortitude or whatever it is you need to fight for your family --

if you would rather walk away from it than have WW "mad at you" --

then you WILL lose it.

Man up, dude. Have some respect for yourself and your family. If you want your family, you're going to have to stand up and fight for them NOW.

But if you're too scared that WW might get mad at you, then that's fine, too. Hey, you're the one who's going to have to explain that to your kids in a few years: "Well, no, kids, I didn't want a divorce, but your mommy did, so I just signed the papers and got out so she wouldn't be mad at me. I couldn't take that, so I never even tried to stand up to her and tell her no. I'm sure you understand."
Mulan

Thanks Mulan, I needed the kick in the [censored]. I will go in tomorrow and stand up for myself. Everything I have done has been from the heart because I love her and if I regret some of it, it is done and I can only move forward. I will be strong and listen to what she has to say. The counselor promised she would make the session about identifying the issues, setting ground rules, and starting to identify a plan.

I will be a MAN tomorrow and work forward from there.

Great!

Now you have a real chance!

So change your sig line!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

Prayers going out for you tonight, Mad.

Well, Coiples Counseling dindt go how I had hoped. Wife basically said she was done with me, had no feelings, didn't want me back, but would not go out on a limb and say divorce. When pressed by the counselor she said she wasn't sure she could give the time (we agreed to 4 months) as promised before she sought a way out. It was all about how I had destroyed her trust and she could never get it back, she has no feeling, just empty, and just the sight of me makes her flooded.

Obviously what I was prepared to hear but not what I wanted to hear. I am back in the depressed fog and I am trying to find a way to be a man. I saw the legal counsel and he had a lot to say, most of it geared toward how to end it and I am not ready for that.

God I wanted this to be the beggining of something positive and I wasn;t ready for how hard it would hit me.

No, it is all about making herself a victim. We expected this. You did good by showing up and standing up. Don't fall back into weakness. Yes, that is how it is with most legal counsel. Their job is to get you divorced, not save your M.

Do yourself a huge favor ok? First do not help your W with the D unless it is to get YOU custody of your children. Second call the Harley's for a counseling appt. Well worth the money to formulate a plan to save your marriage.

I dont want to fall back into weakness but the thought has crossed my mind that the pain is so great I might be better off giving in. I don't wnat to, and I am trying to stay in my body/mind in the here and now so I can get through the days. I hope the Lexapro starts paying off soon, doc said it would take 4 to 6 weeks to really take effect, and I really need to feel more in control of myself.

I keep coming back to a simple vision, where I remember the last time I kissed my wife and the last time we made love..... and that they may truly be the last times!

I would like to immerse myself in my work, but I can't even get started on it everyday.

I want my family and house back. I will get them both, maybe minus wife.......

Well, sometimes we don't have the choice of having a cheating wife or hubby back..but your house, your kids...those are things that are your RIGHT to have. Your choice.

In the end, you may not have the wife (though I hope you do)...but you will have your dignity. Take back your life NOW.

Lem

madwyn

STUDY dammit !

Learn liek I did that an active WS is NOT CAPABLE of giving a sh*t about you rigt now !

NOT CAPABLE hear ?

The Entitlement and justification clouds out ALL care and logic, as she joneses for how OM made her feel.

You need to man up and Plan A FOR YOURSELF primarily, but also to make surethat when she crahses ( and almost all WS do) you are a welcoming a safe place to be.

Your WW is just doing what almost all WS do at that spot in the timeframe. And most affairs end and marriges recover.

all blessings

Madwyn - OK, so you've 'agreed' on 4 months. That is a suitable amount of time for a really good Plan A. Be a wonderful father (I'm sure you are anyway), don't be submissive but be kind and thoughtful in your words, don't argue, try to be calm and relaxed even if inside your heart is racing and you want to scream.

If she decides to leave after 4 months, it won't be without confusion. She 'thinks' she's done with you but we all heard that [email]cr@p.[/email]

I hope you continue your counselling. It's a neutral place for you to express your feelings and I'm sure must be of great use to you both. I hope your return home goes smoothly. Good luck. TT

ok, are you ready to move back home and get to work on saving this marriage?

MadWyn,

Grow a set and quick!

Would you let a thief or drug addict take over your home and throw you out??? Would you let this same person who threw you out of your own home raise your children???

WAKE UP!!! Pull your head out and "DO THE RIGHT THING!" It is up to you to take care of your children, you WS is not capable of it.

My FWW, prior to A, was a mama bear taking care of her cubs from the day they were born. She started the A and went from being very protective to [color:"red"] "children are resilient, they will get over it." That is B***S***! [/color] [color:"blue"]

Your children will remember this and they will always carry a scar.
[color:"red"] YOU CAN MINIMIZE THE DAMAGE BY TAKING YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A FATHER SERIOUSLY!

RIGHT NOW, NOT TOMORROW, NOT NEXT WEEK, BUT RIGHT NOW! Just Do IT!!! YOU DO NOT NEED YOUR WWs APPROVAL FOR ANYTHING! JUST DO IT!!![/color]