Madwyn, regardless of whether she has made her mind up, you should still go home.I understand your pain and fear, but you have been pushed out of your own home. When my WH was in the throes of his A, he expected me to not only move house, but to move country and I stayed put. Why should my life and that of our three daughters have been turned upside down so that he could pursue his seedy life.

People in the infatuation stage of a relationship make terrible choices. They are selfish, they are liars and they are cheats. You cannot rely on your WW to make any sensible decisions right now because the only person she will be thinking of is herself.

I do hope you are sleeping under your own roof tomorrow night. TT

I dunno what to say to you madwyn. We have all told you what has worked for us. Going home, locking up your taker, not taking her fog spitefulness personally, investing in your husbandry and personhood, maybe getting details of OM and exposing to someone in his life whoses opprobrium he fears...but we can't force you to do this.

What do you fear Madwyn, making your situation worse ?
How exactly can your situation get anyworse than it is right now ?

YOU ALREADY LOST HER !!! Internalise that and do all the things to get her back. Fear will paralyse you from doing the things your family needs.

Work out what you're afraid of. Bear in mind that NO mistake you can possibly make can make your dreadful situation substantiely worse, WHILE doing the stuff WE'VE done and reccommended might just make thing sbetter. Its worked for a large number of us.

But its your choice. And I tell you this, the day I stopped cringing I realised I was a KNIGHT, not a serf. My self worth and independence FLOODD in to fill the space where my fear was.

Remember bravery is not the absence of fear but doing the right thing DESPITE it.

ALl blessings whatever you choose to do mate.

Well, yesterday I went through what I guess could be called an intervention. I landed, went to counselors session and when I walked out, there were friends there. They wanted to take me to lunch. After that more friends showed up..... I was without a person shepparding me for the rest of the day.

They explained that they believe my WW is getting through the fog and that the only thing I would do by moving in would be to push her away and bring back the friction and tension. These are friends I believe in, not her friends telling what she wants them to. They told me the A ended completely when I called the OM and he is now living with another woman. There has been no contact betweeen WW and OM since July 14.

My counselor also strongly suggested i stick with the 30 day agreement for the sake of seting a consistency precedent with my children. They expect me home on the 29th of this month and she was emphatic that by sticking to the plan (particularly not leting WW change it at all) was VERY important for the children to see that I was/am doing what I told them I was going to do.

I picked my son up for soccer practice and WW asked me if I wanted to stay for family dinner when I brought him home. I was stunned because she has canceled every other one of these and asked me to just take the kids out to dinner because she could not be in the same room with me. I accepted of course and we didn't exchange a negative word through the whole meal, which included a bottle of wine. I left after we cleared the tables and was met by another friend who basically made sure to reinforce everything all the others had been saying, get a couple drinks in me, and get me home.

So here I sit. I have not taken the advice of all of you who care and are so passionate. I still feel like an empty shell, but today I believe there are people out there that care for me (I mean in Seattle, obviously htere has been an outpouring of care and support from those of you here) and there is life ahead one way or another.

So Bob, maybe I am not cringing anymore. I will go home. I will see what can happen, but the time frame is going to be what I promisied my kids. In the meantime, I have plenty of opportunity to be a giver. I am trying like ****** to lock up my taker. I hope you understand I am not doing this out of fear at this point, and I am not doing out of hope either. I am just doing it because it is what feels right at the moment. I have a strong support group localy to help me thru, and I will be a knight, its just going to take 2 more weeks.

MadWyn...

How many of these wellwishers/advisors have successfully recovered their marriages from an affair?

Something to think about.

When you have successfull recoveries telling you "A" and people who have not only never educated themselves specifically regarding affair dynamics... have never LIVED them and certainly never conquered them telling you "B"...you have a choice about whose opinion in the conflict you will value more...then you live with that choice and it's results.

A GREAT deal of affair busting is COUNTERintuitive..it goes against what your instincts and the instincts of others who have not been in the trenches tell you...so it isn't suprising that most often people are NOT supportive. They are ignorant. Even with the best of intentions they act without wisdom.

If you choose to follow their advice it is my opinion that you are missing an important opportunity and demonstrating weakness...I would advise that you move back into your home.

It's your choice.

***At least last night I was out with a salesrep who was fun and easy to talk to (easy on the eyes too, but I didin't go there).***

Just out of curiosity - what kind of things does/did your wife have to say about your extensive business travel and the constant entertaing of sales reps?

P.S. - Your "friends" are not interested in getting your family back together.

They are interested in avoiding conflict by keeping you and your wife apart.

Big difference.

They think they are "helping".

They're not.

If you follow their advice and continue stay out of your home, your chances of getting your family back go down with every hour you stay gone.

Do you really think your children are going to say to you, "Gee, dad, we really wanted our family back together, but we're REALLY glad you stayed gone for the whole month because we would've felt just awful if you'd come back early" - ?

WTF are you thinking???

Why are you buying this bullcrap? Because it's what you want to hear and takes you off the hook? Because it lets you avoid the discomfort and upset of going back home and confronting your WW?

You can't save your family that way, Madwyn.
Mulan

I am very sorry you have made this dreadful decision, MW. I only hope and pray it doesn't set you back even more. The advice we have been giving you is based on tried and true Marriage Builders principles. MB is one of the most successful marital recovery programs with an outstanding track record. Perhaps your friends know better than Dr. Harley, perhaps they don't. But I agree with noodle that you should consider the source when making decisions.

Your "counselor" gave you terrible advice when she told you move out in the first place and this indicates an ignorance of the dynamics of affairs. She is not trained in infidelity. I would keep this in mind when dealing with her.

This part is absolutely astounding. As if your children would rather have some imagined "consistency" than their own father in their home... I am speechless.......

Why am I not buying this?

Why would a group of friends gather around you for the day to prevent you from moving back into your home?

How did they know you were going to do this?

The last time you posted here you sounded pretty unsure of yourself.

What made them believe you were going definitely going to do this?

Agree ML..

Your absense is hurtfull to your children...would you refuse to stop cutting them so as to be consistent if you became aware that cutting them was a bad decision?

Worse than MAKING a foolish agreement is KEEPING that agreement.

Doesn't the above in bold scream out to you, Mad?

I don't believe there was a conspiracy, but what I do think is your wife is "allowing" you to be in her presence because she now knows you've succumb to being complacent and obeying her demands thanks to your friends.

So you seriously think her inviting you for family dinner is a coincidence? C'mon!

ETA: Dinner is your reward for staying out of your home while she does what she wants.

Jo

Exactly.

Where in the hale are these counselors getting their degrees??? Acme school of "Easy For Me, Conflict Avoidance for You"?

Madwyn

Get the [censored] home , cancel your counsellor contract and call Steve Harley RIGHT NOW.

You are being PLAGUED with terrible advice. TERRIBLE advice.

If I had followed the advice of folsk who suggested conflict avoidance I would certainly now be divorced or dead.

Every person on here advising you the SAME stuff has rescued or is rescuing a marriage just a screwed as yours is.

Recovery is a heroes gig, and counter intuitive. Maybe you aren't up to it. Ot then again, like me, perhaps it will be the proudest thing you ever did in your life IF YOU TRY.

MW,

Do you have an established pattern of breaking promises? I believe you didn't have boundaries, or if you did, didn't enforce them...but did you often promise something and then not do it?

LA

No, as a matter of fact, I am one of the most reliable people you would ever meet. I take my promises and responsibilities with a great deal of personal integrity.

I am guilty of being to stern with my children often and have been working on being more patient. Heck, they are a 7 yo boy and 11 yo girl and they deserve to be kids! Getting better there.

I must say have been avoiding MB for a couple days after geting blasted. I have a couple counseling session on Thursday. That is my short term goal, to keep it together till then and evaluate after.

Read first several pages.......had to skip to last page. It is hard to read when posters do not listen to advice given. I also think your crazy for leaving house and children. And if I were a gambler......no one stays at another mans house till 4 am and has not gotten physical.

Mad,

I hope you get a chance to talk about your conflict avoidance problem w/ your therapist. Maybe he/she can help you w/ it before you lose your wife.

Good luck.

MadWyn,

Thank you for answering my question. Help me to understand, then, how the 30-day agreement proves anything that you haven't already proven?

I'm sorry you feel blasted...I beleive these posters are asking you to look inside you and find where your boundaries are, what reality really is and act from that point; even in the face of other opinions. You may well be doing this and choosing your actions from this place, even in the face of MB opinions.

These are terrific, very experienced posters on your thread...who care about you, your marriage and your family.

If you are a promise-keeper, and I believe you are, who has gone, if anything, to the other extreme and now believes that demonstrating flexibility at times is where you need to be aware...then could this be the time?

To say, "Kids, I've missed you so much...I am coming home sooner than I said I would" be a statement of this...owning your own stuff, changing as necessary?

Why would a therapist tell you to stick to an agreement when you always stick to yours? I can see if you didn't...setting up a do as I say I do would be essential to re-establishing trust with your WW...but she's the WW, the promise breaker...and if anything, she knows you'll do what you promise. I'm confused.

A reasonable fear in reconciliation is that the BS will be intractable, righteous (and they are) and hold the WS to no errors, no opening to reconsider...all their way or no way...because the BS does have the right to divorce. That reasonable fear can escalate to unreasonable fear as justification to not try to recover, too. Up and down, even. Why recovery is a process, not a solution, a fix. So demonstrating flexibility, commitment to act in reality (you're not a promise breaker), goes a long way to not act from our fears but hold them, and act in reality, instead.

FWIW...you're not alone. I believe in you and your own awareness more than others...because you're here, you're knowable and your choice to be here makes all the difference.

LA

well, i listened and moved back early this week..... police were called, they firmly suggested I leave because I was the immediate cause of the problem. I was then contacted by the Police the next day and it was explained that WW has filed for a restraining order, but asked them to give me the option to voluntarily remain away from the house. I called an attorney and he recomended avoiding being served with the restraining order at all costs. That was Monday.

Fast Forward to Thursdays Couples Counseling and WW tells us that shes domne, she is filling, she has decidedd that time wont matter.......

So, I am being divorced, and she wants to do it fast..... she thinks I should work with her for whats best for the kids. I don't know if the advice you all gave me 3 weeks ago would have chnaged anything, but bottom line is I really screwed up and it has cost me one of the most precious things in my life. I have been crying for the last 24 hours, and now I have a Friday/Saturday night with the kids and I need to hold it together.

The pain is killing me and I am not sure how I can make it. I am focusing on my kids right now, but when I am alone, I am scared.

Did she call the police?

I mean, what did she say? My husband is home and I dont; want him to be since I am having an affair?

No matter what, even if you didn't follow the well-given advice here, the choice to end the marriage is STILL hers, not yours.

I don't recommend giving her an easy divorce, Madwyn. It should not be "easy" to leave your family. Plus, the longer it takes, the onger she might see the horrible path she is taking.

As for custody, what are your plans?