This sounds very much like what ex did to me.

He wanted out, wanted a new life with a new person. His heart & his head were gone before he even told me he wanted to D.

You know what though? I am not the one at fault. Don't get me wrong, our marriage, then h, needed attention from me they didn't get. But the decision to bale without really giving the marriage an honest working try...that was his choice.

I did all I could for more than a year (ex said as much) but I couldn't save the marriage alone & neither can you.

Peter - you registered on August 8. You have not even been here a month.

I lurked for about 4 months, then consulted with the veterans for over a year and a half.

You can choose to be not married, but at this point you can also choose to fight for it. I have not read your entire thread - so forgive me for not knowing all of your details.

Your despair is normal for a BS. Shore up, and get the resources you need to get through it. Maybe some ADs.

Listen to people like Orchid, and StartinOver. There are a lot of people on here who have a LOT of experience. Be patient. And follow Orchid's advice.

You might save your marraige. But if you put a year or two into trying, and it does not work, you can say "I did everything I could". The peace that comes from that will really help you if it does end. Trust me.

Chin up, brother. Settle in for a long, long storm. Get prepared. Dream about the rainbow.

Blessings to you.

far

anyone want to bet money that peter fixes people for a living...

anyone want to bet that Peter sees problems breaks them down and fixes them...

anyone want to bet that Peter's biggest frustration is that he can't FIX this...

anyone want to bet that Peter reacts to most things by offering a solution....

MY money
MY bet...

IS that if Peter learns that he doesn't have to be the one to fix things
that if Peter s l o w s down and learns NOT to jump and react to everything...

that he doesn't try so hard...

that Peter may get his WIFES attention....

I bet Peter can do this
I bet Peter can do many many many things in a good plan A

anyone else want to make a bet?

ARK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't just want my wife back. I want her to be happier than than she's ever been. Admitting I don't know what I'm doing is hard, but its the truth. Ark, yes, I fix people for a living.

Orchid, I read Surviving an Affair already, I'll get Love Must be Tough as soon as I can.

I am days away from receiving divorce papers that we agreed on through a mediator. So my question is this. What do I do when they come in? I've told her, "I don't want this but I'll do whatever I can to give it to you as fast as possible". Its seems they can't get here fast enough for her.

Do I tell her forget it, I can't agree to fix a mistake with another? Do I just sign when she asks me to? Do I ignore her calls? Do I tell her I need more time to think?

Frankly, I need someone to tell me what to do. I see that my way isn't working, I'm willing to let go, what do I do (or don't do for that matter)?

Peter,

Why are you expediting a divorce you don't want?

These are things you need to think about before you do sign the papers. Do you want to fight for your marriage, or let it go.

My former sich......I told my EX point blank...."I dont want a divorce, but, if you send me the divorce papers, I WILL sign them. This would mean you have given up on me, in my book" I didnt say this too her in pig latin, I was VERY CLEAR. Well, she handed me the papers and a pen. I signed them, and never looked back as doing it as a mistake. My EX made her choice.

What you do, is really a personal decision.....to try and stay? or go.

Sorry Peter, my earlier post here really had no connection to your sit. I hadn't read through all your posts, still haven't, but one thing I agree on with the others is; what's your hurry?

Plan A is not a day long event. Not all is black & white. Somethings require time & patience & are fluid in nature. Relationship are certainly fluid & so is reconcilication.

Thank you all,

I often find myself confused as to what is controlling behavior toward her and what is more an act against my own volition. This Plan A stuff is tricky to get a hold of. There remains no contact since Tuesday. When the papers come, and if she calls about them, I will to tell her that I am not ready to give up, and will not agree to sign. She has every right to file on her own and there is nothing I can do to stop her.

Tommorow is the MC session. It will be very interesting to see if she shows or not. After reading your advice, it seems it may be for the better right now if she doesn't. In her frame of mind, I bet I could write the script of that play! Everything I say and do will be twisted into negativity and she will probably leave feeling less unsure that separation was a mistake. However, the scene has been set; I'll just let this act unfold on its own.

Thank you again,
Peter.

So, MC on Friday resulted in a no show from my wife. No suprise there. I stayed for an hour of the three we had scheduled. It was like night and day compared to our first counselor. Its amazing how I misinterpreted so many little things she did before the A as being critical and unloving. I believed she didn't love me and how wrong I was! I don't think its coincidence she told me she felt unloved either. We were really in a communication jam. I wish so much that she was there. It may have cleared the fog just a little bit; enough to get her thinking.

The MC asked me to contact her while I was there and ask her if she'd come. He seemed very enthusiastic about being able to help. She said, "Sorry I can't.". At the end he asked me to write her a letter. I told him I was reluctant to make any contact at all... and that I regretted even contacting her earlier. He asked me to do it anyway, and then to just wait and see. Same thing you've all been telling me to do all along. I sent her a short letter and haven't heard from her. So... I'm still kind of sitting around here twiddling my thumbs.

Giving up on trying to fix this, or at least, admitting to myself its not something I CAN fix has been enlightening, even relieving. Our divorce papers still have not arrived but it doesn't matter anyway. I won't be signing them. I have nothing to lose; if she gets a lawyer, let him get blood from a stone. Maybe just the thought of having to go through the process of an unmediated divorce will cause her to rethink things just a little. Besides, the few items that remain in the house and even the house itself are all meaningless without her, so pfft... she can have them or we can sell them. Who cares!?

My wife is on a journey that she must take alone and all I can do is nurture the life and dreams she left behind. I love her, so I'll wait for her. Hopefully, she'll want to come back. Thanks Ark... I'm slow, but I learn. Blame it on the Y chromosome. I'm trying to reach acceptance that its over and that anything that may happen to the contrary will be a blessing. Its hard getting there though, isn't it?

This weekend started out rough, but its gotten better. I really need to figure out how to stop thinking about what she may or may not be "doing" at a given time. That, more than anything else is driving me nuts. Of course that is the whole idea of an A, but still, its tough.

And remind me not to post on here again after I've been drowning my sorrow in booze! Jees, I can sound like a total idiot sometimes.

Star*fish. I owe you. Don't give up rooting for us. I'm not down for the count quite yet. And everyone else, you're all so great. Having people to talk to who are going through this to has been a big help.

Thanks again for your help and support.

Peter

Star*fish, you wrote:

Don't enter her chaos.

I have to say, every day that goes by when I stay out of it, I feel better. I know that she will inevitably call me. My question is, how do I break out of a conversation that is escalating into an argument without using a love buster?

So my wife called me yesterday and asked me why she hadn't received our divorce papers. And she was pissed. I told her I had contacted our mediator, asked her to send them out and I honestly didn't know where they were. I asked her permission to have more time to think about everything.

We had some forced small talk and she brought it back to the divorce.

"Look," she said, "I don't want to be your wife, I don't want to be Mrs. C. anymore. The kids at school all call me Miss C. and that's what I am. I don't want to be married to you, I've given you long enough to get over it and you have to let me move on with my life. You are holding me back."

Wow, talk about a reality check. Fog or not, if that's what she wants, that's what she's going to get. She has still never EVER given me a sincere apology, talked about reconciliation in any serious way and still just does not give a flying hoot about how I feel about any of it. She wouldn't even go to one meeting to give me closure. She did write a letter to me a couple weeks back saying she "wasn't even mad anymore". I laughed myself silly. SHE wasn't even mad anymore. Ahhhh, life is grand.

The only thing she said that made any sense to me was that she was severely depressed right now. Of course, she added that it was because our divorce wasn't final yet. She never misses an oppurtunity to twist that knife she left in my back 5 months ago.

So, I'm just going to file. If from now till the divorce is final a miracle happens... I'd still consider it, just to make sure its the right thing to do.

My regret now though is that I'm writing a book about the whole thing and its actually becoming quite a page turner. My problem is I have no epilogue. I really need her to give me some answers as to what was going through her head at some key times but its never going to happen. I'll have to approach from an "I have learned she may have been feeling this or that" approach.

Interestingly though, she has graduated from saying, "I've never loved you." to "You've never loved me." I don't know what the deal with that is but hey, its her chaos, not mine.

Peter

Peace!

I just had the best conversation with my wife that I've had in months. We talked again about why our divorce papers have not yet arrived and she informed me that our mediator was supposed to finally send them out today.

After that was done I told her, "Look I'm sorry I've been holding on for so long, it was selfish of me."

She answered with, "What does that supposed to mean?"

I said, "Look I had all these crazy ideas in my head about thinking I knew what went wrong and how it could be fixed."

I continued saying how stupid it was, but that I actually believed that she might have some major process addictions associated with her depression and there were certain coincidences that I noticed. And that I believed that I my own problems including seperation anxiety and my own depression were something that we could have overcome if we had just learned to communicate better.

She said she was becoming stressed and confused and said, "I don't know why you think there was ever anything good about our relationship."

I replied, "I don't know, I guess its because while we spent a lot of time focussing on the future and I had forgotten to live in the present, we were building a life together, planning on children and building a safe and secure home together. I just became so obsessed about it that I forgot to satisfy the things you needed right now, today. I guess it just doesn't matter because you've told me that you never loved me and that I was your biggest mistake."

She complained, "I never said I NEVER loved you. Why do you think I married you?"

This is the first time she's admitted every having loved me at all in 5 months.

I said, "Look, you've given me so much in this relationship and I am very grateful. I wish you could take more with you. The least I can do is give you the freedom you've been begging for. I know that once this is over you'll be able to move forward and be happy."

She said, "I'm going to hang up, I can't handle this."

I said, "Ok... Ok.. just wait a second. I'm off on tuesday so assuming we get the papers this weekend I'll meet you there after work. We'll sign them and our waiting period is soon to expire so this is going to be over quickly. I'm happy to be able to at least now give you something that you really want."

She answered, "Look don't just show up at the courthouse on TUESDAY. We have to make sure they get here."

I said, "Of course, but lets just get tentative plans set for now. Call me this weekend if they get here and we'll make sure everything is squared away."

She said she would.

I feel for the first time she actually listened to me and heard me. I just wish she would talk more! If I stop there is just silence.

Ironically, the best conversation I had with her was about just letting go and getting divorced in a healthy way. I followed it up with a quick email saying something to the effect of:

Don't be stressed; I'm not angry or upset or even jealous anymore; although I'm not happy about the affair, it made me really get my stuff together; the counseling couldn't have helped back then because I didn't know enough to learn from it but it could have made a very real difference now; that i was thankful she gave me time to come to terms with everything, it was a dearly appreciated gift; and that she was a mystery better to watch unfold than solve; she never ceases to amaze me.

I don't know. I'm sure that somehow this will all come back to haunt me and I fully expect to be filing for divorce next week. But for the first time in a long time, I got the impression that the wheels in her head were turning. A little to late most likely but at least they turned. Of course, I have read EVERYTHING wrong since d-day so...

So now, back to sitting and waiting.

I hate it,

Last night at like 1130pm my wife calls me in hysterics. She can't even talk. So i keep saying what is wrong? what is wrong?!

Finally she tells me one of our cats was killed by a car. So now I'm pretty upset and I tell her I'm going over there. She says not to because OM is there; he left briefly to get a shovel. I was pretty upset about this because A.) someone else is burying my cat now, and B.) instead of letting me bury him in our yard she had OM dig a whole behind the seedy apartment she's living in.

On top of this, she's crying, I'm about to cry and I say, "I wish I could throw my arms around you and hold you and just let you cry it out."

She responds with, "No, you lost that job. I shouldn't even be talking to you, I just wanted to let you know because he was your cat too."

I sent her flowers and a little eulogy for him today.

We talked this afternoon, actually I just let her talk and tell me how painful it is and that I have no idea what she is feeling right now. Ok, well, true it is a cat and she's taking it pretty hard, but for goodness sake, look at what she's done to my life!!! And I don't understand grief?

Will someone please just tell me if I've gotten past the point of holding on and am now moving into obsession? I mean, what am i doing here!?

How many times do I have to be told its over before I finally just admit its over!?

Am I going insane?

Since my wife's no show for MC 2 weeks ago I have spoken to her twice. She contacted me once about divorce papers and once about our cat dying.

In both circumstances she has remained as steadfast as ever about not wanting to ever return. She never truly looked back merely glancing over her shoulder a couple of times.

For the past 5 months I have been holding on to hope by reading between the lines of her words and actions and I believe that I have just simply been mistaken.

We should be filing for divorce this week and I am still slipping back into denial on occasion. I drive home from work imagining that she is going to be there waiting for me like she always was before she left. I have vivid and elaborate dreams about her and her new life. I have overwhelming feelings of inadequacy and remorse.

I can't seem to get past it, yet sometimes find myself in "false acceptance". I think at this point I am merely obsessing and I'm in deeper emotional distress than I was months ago. I just can't come to grips how she tossed everything we had built together for three years in the time span of a week. She has never shown regret and I don't understand anything.

I still do not contact her but don't see how following the concepts of marriage builders can help me anymore. I've never plan B'd her because frankly, I think she'd be thrilled to hear me say, "Don't call me until the affair is over." Actually, I'm not even quite sure it CAN be called an affair. Its not like she tried to hide it from me and was gone within three days of it beginning.

I guess I'm just venting again. Hope someone else out there is having success!

Peter.

Well, it looks like I've been abandoned here, heh heh. Anyway, My wife called again tonight. We had another really good talk about nothing. The cat of course, the yard, her work, her counciling session she was going to later on, a good 20 minutes I'd say... Right up until the end when she asked if I'd gotten our divorce papers yet. I was beginning to think she secretly called our mediator to hold them up; that is a pretty far fetched idea. I don't understand why but they have still not arrived! I tried sooo hard but, I collapsed and told her that I was sorry and that I knew this was all my fault, I wished she'd give me a second chance. Silence from her end of the line prompted me to say, "don't even answer, I just wanted to throw that out there."

She definately had an exit affair. By the time I even opened my eyes to see we were in serious jeopardy, she was already gone. The strange thing is, I'm not even mad at her about it. In fact, its me I'm upset with. I contributed so much to the disfunction. It hurts to know I made her so unhappy. Live and learn. Love and let live.

Peter

Be careful not to accept too much of the blame. Did she tell you she wasn't happy? If yes, what did she say? Did she make it clear what you could do to help her? Did she meet your emotional needs or are you just less needy and more of a person who takes care of themselves? Did she get counseling? What are her faults and her issues within the marriage, it is never just one person with all of the issues.

Could she come and talked to you? She instead chose to violate her vows to you, hurt everyone that go in the way of her "right now" needs and feelings. She violated her vows before God, She hurt a man that loved her.

Don't let her off the hook for her behavior and more espicially don't let her off the hook for having an affair. There is a way to exit a marriage and this is not it. She is an adulteress and immoral. She is selfish, arrogant, conceited, entitled, compulsive, demanding and more. This is not attractive. This may not be your wife but this person sure is you wayward wife. Don't buy into her lies. Tell her you are sorry for your contribution to your M's downfall but you will not accept responsibility for what she;s become. She owns this and the affair and all that goes with it.

Peter,

Actions speak louder than words. Do you really think your WW called you in her state just to tell you the cat was dead? And cruel as it sounds then was there the correct proportion in her reaction to the cat’s death and the event? I don’t wan to sound cold – I have had a number of pets – but a cat is a cat. They do tend to end under cars or simply disappear. A phone call the next day would have been the “logical” reaction.

I think she is still leaning to you for some of her support. To meet some of her emotional needs. That can be good or it can be bad. Depending on what you want.

Sometimes we set into a pattern of communications with someone that is not always logical or beneficial. So maybe your W is in that stage. She phones you for some issue and then ends the communications on the divorce subject to (a) justify the call and (b) control the call. I can read from your posts a certain change in her communications when you told her you accepted the decision to divorce.

I think your reaction to accepting the inevitability of D really rocked her boat. I think her calling and asking about the papers is more about control than actually wanting this over.

If you want a chance of recovery then Plan A like never before. But try to keep her on her toes regarding the pattern of communications. For example – If she pushes signing the papers offer to go to mediator to sign. The D in itself is just confirmation of a decision.

Thanks for the input, you raise questions that I have been pouring over for months.

Hope and Pray, For a week before the A actually began, she begged me to go to counciling with her. She said things like, "If we don't go to counciling, we are going to get divorced." She gave me every oppurtunity to address the problems in our marriage. Even before that she dropped signs that I completely missed, or refused to see.

What were those problems? I have no coping skills in handling conflict. My family is a group of malevolent and manipulative people and being the youngest I had quickly learned to simply walk away, shut down and avoid. This is what I brought into my marriage. I held grudges and couldn't move past simple things, I withheld affection and sex from her for huge periods of time and the few arguments I could face ultimately escalated into shouting and name calling by both of us. She felt alone, unloved and unsafe for years. This is my fault in many way, but not all.

She had a classic "Exit Affair".

Bigger, When she called me to tell me about our cat, I was actually kind of disturbed. She apparently sat in the street petting its dead, stiffened body for an HOUR until her neighbor forced her to stop. It was a pathetic scene.

You do raise an interesting point though. One of the few times she actually DID glance back she had left me a voicemail with a shaky voice saying she needed to come over to get something from the house. She repeated it three times and finnished with, "And I also wanted to know if you heard from DM about the papers." Looking back, I think you are right. The next time I'd spoken to her she told me she had been trying to contact me to return to counciling but, she said, I had blown my chance.

Also, we already went through mediation. All we have left to do is sign at the courthouse and pay the fee. Everything else is prepared. Every day I go to my mail box and slowly open it breathing a sigh of relief that they have not yet arrived. It is merely a matter of time. Signing is, in fact, confirmation of her decision and I think she believes this will justify it. After we're divorced she can move her relationship with OM into the open and move forward with it.

One way or the other, I'm locked in a financial vice until we either file or move toward recovery. After six months of living this way I need to start heading in a direction other than limbo.

Why do I want to go into recovery? Well, I'm 35 and spent my whole life pushing anyone that's ever loved me away from me. I want to learn from it, break the pattern and heal the relationship with the only woman I've ever known that has had faith in me. I let her down and it breaks my heart.

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

Peter

And it just keeps getting worse. I brought my car in for a state inspection thinking that It would cost me about 50 bucks in and out. I just got an estimate saying I need to put about 2000 into it just to pass and an additional 1500 to fix a leaky head gasket, oil pan, breaks and some other things. I have to buy a new/used car. This is a HUGE problem because it is going to screw up my debt/income ratio on my mortgage assumption application. I think I just lost my house.

I don't know whether to call her and tell her to pull her head out of her butt already or to just keep rolling with the punches. I feel so beat up already that a few more won't hurt. The mail showed up, no divorce papers. I can't figure out why!!! Our mediator told me she was going to mail them out over two weeks ago now. Something is going on. Whether my wife is messing with my head or our mediator has a plan of her own, something is going on.

Peter

look pete ,keep a level head. No hopes up or staying in the dumps.

My councellor said to me :"there is a difference between attitude and emotions; emotions you sometimes cant control...they are just there." but "attitude is a decision.the decision on what do you want to do with your life."

Only God knows why those papers havent arrived. So continue to be there listening and plan a till the end (If there is an end?). You dont know the future. Just deal with the now. Go with God's peace.