So, no rationalizing or explaining? Keep it short and sweet, and refuse to engage?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

That's gonna take work. I can be a bit long-winded...my kids will vouch for that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Neither do I OB1, neither do I.

Out of all the things that hurt from my ex-H's betrayal, I think the blame took the greatest toll.

You can't let it have your power. Looking back I know my then-H was saying the most ludicrious things, just absurdities. But it still incensed me and hurt like h3ll.

Don't let that happen to you, tell yourself they are just words coming from a person who is temporarily insane. An alien.

Jo

LOL..I can certainly understand the long-winded part, I've been accused of talking the horns off more than a few billy goats myself...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But no, there is no rationalizing with the irrational...That is an exercise in futility and will only serve to frustrate and anger you...

And I do believe that you need to snoop like crazy for the sake of your family right now...You should INSPECT what you EXPECT...

Mrs. W

Snoop...but don't get caught and don't ever reveal your sources.

Added benefit:

When you snoop and discover the content of the lies then that's less lies you have to try to draw out of WH later on. You already KNOW the truth. They may hurt to hear but at least you hear them contemporaneously with the time they happen and if you listen hard enough you can really hear the ridiculousness of the affair addiction. It's really like listening to two crackheads discuss how much they "love" crack.

It really helped me understand that the affair was not really about me, her or him...but an addiction. Nothing about it was real.

Mr. Wondering

btw, is he still reading here???? We should all amend our posts about snooping if he is.

You get no argument from me. It is my every intent to protect myself and try to safeguard our relationship. I just need a quick breather. These last few months have been very emotionally draining. Sometimes I feel like I'm running on fumes. The digging usually leads to fighting. I'm not one to withhold information. I tend to deal with things as they come up, as opposed to sitting on it for awhile. When I "sit on it", bad feelings fester and misery prevails. So, a quick hiatus and see where counseling leads us.

If he was more amenable to being an "open book"....if, if, if. Our counselor did tell him that he's letting me do most of the work (digging for truth) in this regard. It's up to him to offer me some relief by being forthcoming and transparent. As he becomes more forthcoming, my anxiety and need to dig will subside, which will in turn deflate his outrage at being snooped on, thereby creating more balance.

I hear ya OB1, I understand that it can become quite obessive and drive you crazy...However, if the affair is still going on, counseling will be a big waste of money and emotion...

Mrs. W

Nah. Whether he's reading or not, there's nothing to hide. Truth has a way of coming to light, with or without my help. Besides, I'm a pretty smart (and determined) cookie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

When you lie, you will eventually trip yourself up....and I WILL catch it. My mom gave him fair warning. I forget nothing. I'm good at piecing things together. If he's lying, I WILL figure it out.

I can spend hours working on logic puzzles...for recreation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

"I can spend hours working on logic puzzles...for recreation."

Me too. But the affair world contains no logic. It's a snake pit. You need the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

D is great at many things, but he's not a perfect liar. As good as he is, he makes many mistakes. And dangit if I don't catch it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes, the facts. I'll sniff 'em out. I like the logic puzzles because it sharpens my senses for when something ISN'T making sense.

I love this man to death, but he done got himself in over his head. As sad as this has made me, and as many tears as I've cried, there's that warped sense of humor that has me splitting a gut at the stunts he's tried to pull. I'm almost insulted that he would think I would buy some of the bull he's thrown my way. Makes me wanna roll my eyes and tell him, "Boy, PUH-leeze!".

.

THE ABOVE QUOTE MADE ME LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I LIKE YOU OB1...GIRL, YOU GOT SPUNK!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> DAT BOY, MR. OB1, BETTER RECOGNIZE!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

A girl's gotta get by in the world. Spunk helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yep, she sho nuff do and it sho nuff does!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OB1, here is a link to a thread started by Longhorn and contributed to by my husband, Mr. W, and others that I think you should read...pay special attention to the links in Longhorn's signature...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Mrs. W

Thanks for the link, Mrs. W. I've been reading. Longhorn's posts have been insightful...and have served to make me feel a bit better about my own thoughts. Sometimes I felt like I was the one that was losing it. Fog talk is sooooo frustrating for me. It just goes agains the grain. Wish I could flush him out. A reality enema sounds pretty good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mr OB1 will never arrive here, but you can lead him, let him drink it his own way, however.
As a FWS, (didn't realize before that I had to earn the "F"!, but I see clearly that it is "earned, never given") I could tell him a thing or two as well.
But, My Spouse and I found this site three days before D-Day. It saved my M. She was reading what was important to her, I was reading what was important to me. When the A was exposed, the HNHN and other principles from this site allowed us to talk about how we had gotten to that point in our M.
So, OB1, get your husband to visit the site. Do not ask him to look at anything in particular, let him read what he wants. You learn about HNHN, and the vocabulary. Try to get the education that this site offers so much of. If he is really committed, your will find out soon enough, and keep the LB to a minimum and start work towards POJA. Your husband, although in a fog, can learn, and you can find out how you two got here, then fix it.
Don't let him push your button on this subject, and when he goes to push another one, just bat your eyelashes at him, as suggested earlier. He's the one who needs to talk. Let him talk.

I'll ask him to give it a solid try. See if he'll try posting and stick with it for a trial period. Hopefully he'll be open to the Harley's methods and the frankness of the forum and decide to continue.

Contact never ceased. All this time, he's been keeping us away from each other....because he didn't want us knowing the truth. I finally got up the nerve to contact her. She called me back and was hostile, at first. Once she realized that D and I were together and had NEVER separated, her tune changed. He's been lying to us this whole time. She believed we had been apart since before the PA started. Her hostility towards me was because she thought I was a bitter ex making waves. D and I have never separated! To her credit, she sounded shocked at the truth. I told her everything about these last several months. We asked and answered a lot of questions...times, dates, locations, etc. In the middle of it all, she apologized. Call me naive, but she sounded sincere. It appeared that things were clicking in her head as the truth rolled out. The more we spoke, the milder her demeanor became.

During the conversation, D called and told me he was on his way home early...he wanted to surprise me. Surprise! He didn't know that OW was also on her way to our home. There was a confrontation and he was completely and totally busted. It was a horrible night/morning, and it's still not over. He's on the fence. He's afraid to make a choice. He's afraid of making the wrong choice. He's afraid of trying to work this out and have it fail. He says he needs time to sort things out in his head. I'm having a tough time with that because that's exactly what he told me two months ago, just before "committing" to working on the relationship. Now, here we are again. I tried my best to talk things out with him, but I feel like I hit a stone wall. He loves me, and he loves her. I don't know how I kept it together. No tears, but inside I was coming apart. IF he decides to stay, he says he will do whatever is necessary to recover. In the meantime, I live this he11ish waiting all over again.

I cannot fathom him even contemplating giving us, and everything that comes with us, up for the unknown. It doesn't compute. It doesn't make sense. It hurts like he11. I'm at a total loss. I don't know what my next move is, if there even is one. I need time to process this. I have the whole day ahead of me. No sleep. Nothing to do but wait. Wait for what?

OB1...

You expose this affair...THAT is your next move...Don't forewarn him, just do it-forewarned is forearmed...Reality is RUINOUS to affairs...It forces the affair partners to see their sleazy behavior thru the eyes of others...Some damage has already been done based upon yesterday's OW debacle...But you need to call anyone and everyone that has influence over your WH and tell them what is going on...Explain to them that you love your husband, want to save your marriage and ask for their help in influencing him to do the only right thing here...Return to the marriage...Prime exposure targets would include your family, his family, friends, clergy members and perhaps his employer...

Did the OW stay throughout this confrontation? Are you saying that she didn't remove herself from the equation? Which certainly wouldn't shock me, btw...Actually I would be more shocked if she did...Infidels are addicts and must be treated as such...

I am so sorry that you are going through this...You will get through it, and there will be many wonderful people here to help you do so...

Mrs. W

Yes, she removed herself, after spending 2 hours in a "private" conversation with him out in the street. I did go out there, after awhile, with my dad for moral support, and told him to go if he wanted to go. My dad laid into him and then told him to stay away from me.

He is now sleeping on the couch. It was the hardest thing to watch him walk out of our bedroom. A page has turned and I don't know what's coming next. I know this feeling will pass, but right now all I feel is a horrendous hurt. If betrayed once was staggering, what do you call this?

Well, I think there should have been NO "private" conversation out in the street or anywhere else. She should have taken her self home back to her H, where she belongs.

Too late, now, though. Good for you for going out there, but I would have told her that this is now between me and MY husband and that she needed to get gone and stay gone.

I know you're hurting, and it is sooo hard right now. However, try to remain calm when you're with your H, and Plan A, with no Love Busters. Ask him to write a NC letter to her, give you his passwords, and to be accountable for his time. He may not want to do these things, but just calmly tell him that this is the only way to get through this.

Oh, yes...and if he ever again tells you that it was "not your place" to contact OWH, tell him that since it was "not his place to be screwing another man's wife", and he did it anyway, it BECAME your place to contact the OWH.

OB1...

Have you spoken to OWH since this debacle? You need to call him and give him all the info...He will be your greatest ally in enforcing no contact between the infidels...

How are you holding up OB1? I know that spunky girl has had the wind knocked out of her, but she still exists and will rise again from the ashes just like the phoenix...

Mrs. W