RX, remember what is written at the top here.

“Please remember: With the exception of the Marriage Builders® Weekend Private forums, the advice offered on these forums is offered by your peers - it is NOT professional advice and should not be taken as such. If you want professional advice, please look at information about the MB Counseling Center, or seek a professional counselor. “

I don’t know what you should do, what I think is that if you would like to see what your M could be with her, Plan A is advised on this site. In plan A what a WW says is considered being said from a state of addiction to the A, in your case maybe horrific Independent Behavior. What she says until she comes out of the “fog” has to be taken with a grain (a block) of salt.

DLK21

I'll address everyone's points in a later post... I was going to do it early, but I have a quick update re: the subject of this post.

She showed up at about 11am, knocking on the door. I was still waking up and so I didn't hear her at first. She wasn't mad, she just wanted to know why it took me so long to get to the door. I honestly just didn't hear her knocking. I went outside for a moment, sat on the steps. She ruffled my hair and told me I needed a haircut again. I do, and I agreed with her. She asked how I was doing, to which I just replied that I was doing well. I didn't ask how she was doing, because at that moment I noticed she had a keychain that had her new boyfriend's name on it, and I just didn't want to know.

Anyway, I got her dresses for her. It took me a few minutes because I didn't know where they all were, and she couldn't remember were most of them were stored. So, she sat in the front room of the house as I searched. Most of them need to be cleaned, so I put them in a box for her and carried them out to her car.

She asked me if I needed anything. I wanted to bad to say "Yeah, I need my wife back." But I didn't want to sound needy, so I didn't say anything. I just shook my head, told her I was fine.

The silence was awkward. She hugged me, told me to call her if I needed anything, and said bye. I told her bye, and went back inside the house. Then she left.

Did I handle that well? I feel like there are so many things I could have done differently. I have to admit, there are a lot of ways it could have gone very wrong, and I kept from letting those things happen, but I think it could have gone better, too. I just don't know.

Opinions? Comments?

No matter what I do, will it still be some time before I start seeing results of any kind?

I lived thru that type of situation where the WW comes to pick up some of her things. Steve advised me to be there and interact.

What is peculiar is helping your WW getting her stuff out when you don’t want to enable the affair or the separation. It is an occasion to be nice to her but you don’t want to be a door mat.

I agree to be there and be nice but not go along. I won’t do it any more. She may just misunderstand that. That is like what they call a 180.

Seeing results... Yes it may take some time.

DLK21

Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll just be there when she comes by, be nice to her, show her who and what I really am, but not help her get her things anymore.

I don't know. I'm still so confused. I don't know what I want anymore. I don't know if I want to save the marriage or not. I don't know if I want her back or not.

Gah.. this is so annoying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Until you decide your goal...what you really want...you will add to your feelings of ups and downs...from mixed beliefs.

I believe we're behind you whatever you choose...choosing your goal is key.

LA

My goal is to be happy, no matter what the outcome.

The outcome itself is not important, by itself. I just want to know I can be happy, and that my son can be happy.

I do wish that none of this would have ever happened, but it did. I don't know if I could ever trust my WW again, even if I wanted to and tried.

If she made a powerful, sincere attempt to make amends and prove that she had changed, I would take her back in a heartbeat. We would have to work hard every day to make sure things stayed that way. I don't know if this would ever happen though.

I fell in love and married a woman that most of my friends and family say never existed. They all pretty much agree that she was who she was for me because she got so much attention from me, and then when she bored of it, she moved on.

I really don't know what to think or say. I just want to be happy. If she comes back, makes the changes, and stays faithful, I can be happy. If she doesn't, I need to know that I can be happy.

Therein lies my dilemma. I don't specifically want her to come back, but I want to be happy if she doesn't. At the same time, I don't specifically want her to stay away, either, but I want to be happy if she does.

Am I making any sense here?

*sighs*

I just found a card that my WW sent me years ago.

Why must people say things like 'yours forever' and stuff if they don't really intent to remember that they said it and stick with it?

I guess the same goes for vows. Why promise yourself to someone forever if you aren't going to fight to make sure you keep that promise?

Well, a quick update.

My new job is going well. Started it yesterday. I hope that it helps motivate me and keep me active so that I can get to feeling better overall. I really need something to stimulate my brain in good ways, so I can stop thinking about her. Actually, I'm doing a good job... I really only think about her anymore when I'm going to bed and laying there in the dark and quiet all by myself.

Once I have money again, I'm going to make sure I go out some so that I can have fun and be happy. I really need social interaction, and to be away from this place. Eventually things will get better, I know, but it will take less time if I get out and do things; if I remind myself what it is like to be human and not the trash that I felt like after she walked out.

Anyway... I know it might be too much, but words of wisdom and encouragement would be amazing right now.

About the card...what if you chose to believe that was her intention when she gave it to you? And what if everyone we love stays a part of us throughout our lives, forever, even?

I don't believe these are irrational or wrong...I believe holding people to their feelings, like a contract, isn't realistic...if they choose to live from their feelings and not from their beliefs. Which do you live by, RX?

I know that I didn't believe my vows because I hadn't experienced anyone keeping a vow, except out of revenge.

I know that when I've said, "I will love you forever" I WANTED to feel love for that person forever.

Congrats on the new job...I know it can help the healing process, and I know how important work is for helping to meet my needs of admiration, appreciation, attention and acceptance. I hope the same for you.

LA

...what if you chose to believe that was her intention when she gave it to you?

Why didn't she stick with her intention then? Even if I believe that it was really her intention at the time, she didn't follow through and I don't understand that. To me, if you say something like that, you need to do your best to make it happen. If you don't make it happen, you didn't really mean it. You weren't ready for it and you weren't committed to it. That's a problem. Don't say it if you don't mean it.

I follow my head. My beliefs. I believe that if you commit, then you are thusly committed. You can't just back out of a committment. You are responsible for it. Obligated to it. Call it an old-fashioned sense of honor and respect.

And what if everyone we love stays a part of us throughout our lives, forever, even?

This is true, IMHO. Especially in the case of marriage with children. Whether we like it or not, the WW is part of our lives forever. Otherwise, yes, in a way everyone we love stays a part of us. We learn lessons from those relationships, and that creates change. So they are, indirectly, a part of our lives forever.

That's not the 'forever' that people mean, though, when they write those sorts of notes.

I'm sorry, I'm feeling pretty negative about my WW right now.

I'm just going to keep typing. My ADs make me feel weird sometimes, especially if I forget to take them. I forgot to take it last night, so late this afternoon I was feeling all depressed and such while thinking about my wife's affair and the fact that it literally started right under my nose, at a weekend-long convention we went to in February.

I could have been more observant and stopped her. I could have done so much and maybe prevented it, or at least found out then and dealt with it before it got out of control and turned into a PA/EA/whatever it really was.

I want to hate her right now. And I do. But it's wasted energy and will only cause more problems. I'm just going to avoid her. I'm going to get her stuff out of my house and go on with my life. If she decides she wants to come back to me, we can work it out then. If that never happens, then so be it and good riddance to her. She can just go live her stupid little existance and screw up her life if that's what she wants. She can drift from guy to guy because she thinks love is only worth the initial new-relationship rush. I'm done with her.

One of my friends told me today that he doesn't necessarily see anything wrong with the fact that she loves in that manner. He thinks it's all right to want that sort of love and thinks it's wrong to have to work for it, but he agrees that what she did to me in particular was stupid and wrong. I don't get it, honestly. Talking to him seems to make no sense to me. I understand that everyone has a different opinion on love and a different 'love style,' but I do think that some of them are BAD for everyone involved and could indeed be considered harmful. He thinks it's a person's right to love how they want to and to seek out whatever kind of love they want.

Personally, I think that the other person's right to seek out love stops at the other person's right to not be hurt. And, thus, the fleeting lover has no real right to love, as long as that is the way they want to love. Unless, of course, they find another fleeting lover and both know the situation.

Therein, I think, lies the major problem. Those types of people don't understand what they are doing. They don't understand that they just want the initial love feeling... they honestly expect to find 'the one' and settle down 'forever,' but then get bored when the new-love feeling wears off and the relationship becomes 'normalized.' They then suddenly think that something is utterly wrong and think that they have to get away. They don't understand the evolution of relationships, and expect that a 'forever' relationship will always feel as special as it did in the beginning.

They just DO NOT understand, and it seems that no amount of screw-ups can ever MAKE them understand.

*sigh*

I really hate this. I'm sick and tired of it all. I just want my life back. With or without her, so long as I can just EXIST and be HAPPY, I do not care what happens.

I am just so angry! And I don't know what to do next.

Gah.

Hi, RX, sounds like you were having a night like I was the Friday night!

I was feeling very low myself. I guess I need a pity party for myself every once in a while.

So, how are you feeling today? Better?

I would like to thank you again for your wonderful insight the other day. I greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say.

You have every right to be angry at WW, but my question is are you going to hold onto the anger? Like LA would ask, what's the payoff?

I read the other day on your post that you plan to be happy with or without her. What are your plans to accomplish that goal? What are you doing for yourself? Do you plan to "just exist and be happy" like your previous post read?

Just existing? The just in front is what's bothering me. Can you examine that a little more?

Thinking of you today and wishing you the best. Keep your head up, you have been doing a wonderful job!

I'm feeling better now. Though I did have a little down moment not that long ago. Turned on a lamp so I could get some good webcam shots of my son and I and remembered all the times I came home on Sunday nights and wondered why all the lights were off save for that one lamp (she used it for her webcam 'shows' she gave to online friends on Sundays because I always went out with friends on those nights), and it just made me MAD. I wanted to take the lamp out in the back and break it.

I didn't do that. Which is good, of course, because I'd have to buy a new lamp. Still, the thoughts were there.

You don't have to thank me for my insight, but you are welcome nonetheless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I try so very hard not to hold on to my anger, but right now.. I just still don't know how to let it go. There is no payoff in it... it only makes me hurt more, but I don't know what to do to make it go away. How do you let go of this kind of feeling, caused by these sorts of situations? It's not like she's dead and gone and therefore unable to continue to hurt me... no, she's right there and still doing things that affect me. How does someone let go of that?

I haven't determined my exact plans to be happy. I have started doing things, though, to try and get started. I've been more social lately than I have since I got married. Gone out a lot and just tried to feel human again. Once I get my money situation all lined out, I'm going to start working out and I'm going to buy myself a bicycle so I can get some good cardio. I want to get myself back in shape, and I think I'm going to abandon my glasses for contacts or corrective surgery. I want to better myself. But it's so very hard. I've always had a lack of self-motivation and self-discipline as it is; her leaving and my depression over things haven't made that any better.

To explain the 'just' that I included in that comment, read it as 'at the very least.' At the very least, I want to feel as if I actually exist and I want to be happy. I have goals and desires that reach far above that, but right now I don't even feel real or important, so I at least want that sense of being--that sense of individuality and importance--back. My son helps me feel important, but every day I fight feeling that I'm nothing but a failure to him because I couldn't keep our family together. That makes things very hard.

Anyway, here's to hoping that your situation is going better. Be happy. And if you still want/need me to go into detail about my opinions from the other thread, let me know. Your thread seemed to have gone off in a different direction, so I hadn't gotten around to it yet. Take care.

As a note.. I should make myself go to bed earlier. Part of my problem is that I tend to feel the worst late at night when no one else is awake. If I would just go to bed before that time comes, or at the same time everyone else does, I would no longer have to deal with this problem.

Right now, I'm down again. I need to go to sleep, but I hate being in that room. I hate sleeping. I want to just be awake all the time, but when I'm awake this late, I can't keep myself from thinking about things. Besides, I have responsibilities and can't just stay up all night long.

Why am I down? I can't find a babysitter for my son so he has to stay with his grandparents (the in-laws) during the week. They're on my side in this whole issue, so it's not a problem, but he's still not here. And that makes me so angry. I feel like I'm failing him. Like I'm letting him down. I feel like I'm a failure as a father. I hate that feeling. And it's all HER FAULT. So, I get angry at her, and since I refuse to call her or write her or whatnot, I cannot express my anger to her.

This makes me just sit here fuming, which of course makes it hard to sleep, just furthering down the spiral.

What am I supposed to do?

(((((((((RX)))))))))))

Oh, Sweetie, I wish I had some answers for you. I do think that you have a good idea about going to bed early. I know how difficult that is too, I can't seem to make it to bed before 1 or 2 and then I'm up every hour or two. Tonight I think I'm going to ask myself what/why I'm up and see what self tells me.

So, Do I understand this right, you don't get to see your son during the week?

As for as payoffs are concerned...I'm learning that the payoff doesn't have to be positive...matter of fact, I have some soul searching to do now from LA's post to me. It may be helpful if you read it and apply the questions to your own sitch...who knows it may help with those nights!

I see that you do have a wonderful plan for yourself, contracts or surgery, cool! Working out...these are wonderful things...I wasn't asking for the hard stuff...like to you plan to go up in space and move to a different state, or anything like that.

How can you say that you are a failure to your son? You couldn't keep the family together...can you control your WW? Can you make her do ANYTHING? Are you doing the best for him with the resources you have available to you presently? Do you have him in a loving, nuturing environment when he IS NOT with you? Are you neglecting him in any way? Do you love him?

I see that you are trying to do better for him and yourself, you are dealing with the sitch the best that you can right now. This is temporary? I'm sure as time passes you will find other means more suitable for the both of you.

Where is your WW? Do you see her and does she see your son?

As far as the information on porn, I think I'm good for the time being. FWH won't talk about anything in detph anyway. we got into it Sat. Morning, he said that everything needed to be clarified, or justification here lately. I said I was just trying to understand things a little better. It was a mess...I have to deal with a fear of intimacy...what I feel is him being distant most of the time.

I'll all work out for the best, whatever that is.

You take care and try to get more rest...no sense in wasting good energy! My the way, YOU are more important than YOU think...here!

((((((((Rind)))))))))


That's right. I can't find a good babysitter for him that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, so he goes up to his grandparent's house. It's the in-laws, but seeing how that situation has gone (they've practically disowned her), I don't think there will ever be any trouble. They do live about 45 minutes away, though, and that makes things hard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


I actually plan to move to a different state in space! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


I know. I can't control my WW. SHE can't even control herself... there's no way I could control her in any way. I am doing the best for him that I can, but it just feels like it's not enough. I feel like I have so little to offer him besides love, and therefore I feel as if I'm neglecting him somehow. I also just don't feel like I know how to take care of him properly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I love him so much, I just want everything to be right by him.

As for when he's away, his grandparents love him very much. They couldn't believe or stand what my WW did, and that's why they don't want anything to do with her anymore.


Last time I saw her was about a week and a half ago. I haven't seen or heard anything from her since. She hasn't seen our son in around a month and a half, maybe more. She's only seen him 3 times since she left in May. I don't know what she is doing or why she seems so intent to ignore her son. It bothers me, but everything she's done and all the ways she's acted since she left really bother me. I'm used to it.


Thank you. You try and get some rest too. You deserve it as much as I do. Take care.

"I just want everything to be right by him."

I see I have a fellow perfectionist! LOL Perhaps that's why I was drawn to your thread! LMAO

Oh, I think you may be interested in reading the last few posts on my thread. It may help with those "nights."

You know how LA have her magical way of sharing the light? LMAO

I just finished reading the last page of your thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Even as you were asking me to do so!

And yeah, I do tend to have the 'perfectionist' trait, even if it is a fault in me. I missed out on so much when I was a kid, all because I didn't have a complete family.. I never wanted my son to have to go through that, yet here he is, going through the exact same thing.

Oh well. Life goes on. I've totally given up on this marriage. I just can't go on like this anymore. I have to pick myself up and live with the fact that my WW is never coming back because she doesn't want to come back. She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her or her actions, and I doubt she'll ever think there is.

So, good riddance to her. I'm tired of the pain she's caused me.

I knew I should have waited to post here instead of on mine! LOL

I'll lean you a hand when you need it. If you're unsure as to how to care for your son...I can answer any question or concerns that you have. Anytime! I don't think it will be long before you feel confident enough to care for him!

For what I see so far...YOU'RE a GREAT DAD!