Rogue......once you have had enough.....you WILL chose an option. You just havent reached that point yet. If things continue the way they are, you will.

I wrote a letter to my wife last night. A letter that I will probably never send. It was, more or less, an attempt to put down in words how I really feel about her, even despite all of the drama and problems. It is a loving, caring, emotional letter, with no anger, bitterness, or cynicism. No name-calling. No accusations. Nothing.

It's sitting in my gmail drafts. If I ever do decide to send it to her, it will be the day I decide that I am ready for divorce. Also, I will hand-write it and likely hand-deliver it to her. And that will be the end.

I think I'm far too symbolic and overdramatic at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Rogue,

Failure to plan is planning to fail.

So I agree with what Ami has said.

You have more then two choices in this stich. You know when I am planning I start from the end result I want then work backwards. I want a good happy M. End result. Then I work backwards to today. Now I can only enact my part of the plan. Heck if you and I both want that we will have different ways to get there.

At this point you have to know what you want and how to get there.

Until you come to that conclusion you will be wondering around.

Now here is the kicker for me. I did not feel better about myself and this sitch until the day I realized I would be fine, happy, healthy, productive, etc. WITHOUT my FWW.

I didn't and dont' want that but I am sure I will be even to this day.

When you get there you will feel better.

It's an emotional issue. Probably the only thing that could elicit greater emotions would be a life and death situation.

Your letter is your attempt to appeal to your wife's feelings by pouring forth your own feelings. You want to believe that you can reach her through the fog, but you understand that it probably won't have the effect you desire, so you don't send it.

So I'm going to assume that very few, if any, of you watch the new Battlestar Galactica series on SciFi, but a really neat quote was made on there that I thought I'd share.

The conversation was between Admiral Adama, commander of the Colonial Fleet safeguarding the last free humans left alive after the Cylons destroyed the 13 colonies, and a Cylon infiltrator named Sharon who (in another copy of herself) had been an officer in the fleet and friend to many of the crew and, being a sleeper agent, had been activated, trying to assassinate Adama. She was being released from her prison and made part of the crew again. He was getting ready to send her to a Cylon-occupied planet to try and contact the resistance there, and this was said:

Sharon: "Sir, can I ask you a question?"
Adama: "Go ahead."
Sharon: "How do you know? How do you know you can trust me?"
Adama: "I can't. (pause) That's what trust is."

The whole exchange, while short, just struck me as one of the best lines I'd heard in any series in a very long time. Plus, it just seems appropriate for here, considering that infidelity is so often a serious trust issue.

How do you know you can trust your WS again? You can't. But, as Adama said, that's what trust is.

Oh, hi. Thought I'd update.

Life is life. But at least I'm not so depressed anymore. I don't think about her constantly, but she's still on my mind more often than I want her to be.

I haven't even spoken to her in almost 2 months. Not a word--written nor spoken. I'd say I'm in Plan B, but I never had a good Plan A to begin with, and I'm pretty sure that I'm going to file for my D within the next couple weeks.

Her birthday is coming up, too. The 15th of this month. For some reason, I'm afraid that day is going to be hard for me. I'm not looking forward to it. I'll just try to surround myself with friends or something... maybe I can just let it go. As of the day after her birthday, she'll have been gone officially for 6 months.

Oh well. I'm still a little bitter and cynical from time to time, but at least I'm trying to get out there and live more.

Should I contact her on her birthday? Send her a card or something? If I do, should it be a birthday card or something else? Should I write anything in it or keep it simple?

I am more worried about how you are doing and what you have done to protect you and your child from this childish, selfish, entitled woman?

Also, don't send anything on her birthday. Allow her OM to do that for her. She will not appreciate it coming from you and will only serve to make his see you as weak and still at her becon call.

Hmm? Me? Oh, I'm doing okay. Once I have my car fixed and am able to be more mobile, I will be much better. Still having a tough time finding a babysitter for my son, which has made it difficult to keep him down here... he's been staying with my in-laws for the past few weeks, since I started my new job. I have him from Friday afternoon to Sunday night, though, so I still get to spend some time with him. His mother practically never contacts me regarding him. She apparently called this last Sunday because she wanted to see him, but I was already gone, taking him back up to her parents' house... she, of course, has no contact with them at all, so yet again she doesn't get to see her son.

Anyway, here's to hoping I get my car back and find a babysitter for him, both soon. I miss having him.

In other news, she actually called me today, pretty randomly. She saw I was online, and decided to call to see how I was and how I was liking my new job. We didn't fight or anything, just chatted. We stayed civil--heck, we even chatted like old pals or something--but I never once really opened up more than I would to any other fringe friend. We only talked for about 10-15 minutes, then she had to go.

I was shaken afterwards. I can put on the face and voice and act like it doesn't affect me, but it does. Once she's gone or no longer on the phone with me, I have to take some time to calm and relax. I don't like that part. It reminds me that I haven't let go completely.

I know first hand how hard this is but I want you to know when you finally accept that this woman your wife is now, the wayward one, is not the woman you married and had a child with the better you will be. You have to accept this as a fact. There is all the evidence in the world to support this...would your WIFE have had an affair on her husband, would your WIFE continue in that affair today, would your WIFE not have contact with her own parents, would your WIFE abandon her 18 mo old son, would your WIFE carry on the behaviors, actions, that this woman is capable of, would your WIFE throw out all morals, values, beliefs to be with this man, to legitmize everything she is doing, would she be this entitled, selfish, self indulgent, irrational, immoral, etc??? I presume the answer is NO. Then if we agree, then the woman you are dealing with is not your wife....she may look like her but she is most certainly not the one you committed your life to.

Take this, accept it and stand in the gap for you and your son above all else. Speak the truth in quiet confidence without expectaion that she will hear, return, change, etc. and let the chips fall where they may. Your no. one priority is you and your son and as the "truth" messenger to your wife who unfortunately is buried in the pit of this wayward woman that you are having to deal with.

God bless.

Well, I found out that she did indeed take a trip out to Vegas to meet all of her online friends. All the while she claimed she didn't have any money and couldn't help out yet because she hadn't gotten everything straightened out financially yet.

Basically, she was able to waste money on a trip to Vegas, but she can't help me take care of our son by giving me a little bit of money every month. Nice. Shows a ton of responsibility there.

*sigh* I really just am sick of this. All of it. It's been 6 months. I just want it all to be over and out of my life for good.

((((RX))))

I hope that you are HEARING what HnP is saying...you are getting some excellent advice!

Just thinking of you!

(((((Rin)))))

I am listening, and I am trying my best to get through this. Anyway, this week has been interesting. Read on.

My WW called me out of the blue on Wednesday. I was working, so I wasn't able to talk to her for long, but it basically came down to the fact that she was really upset after getting fired from her job and wanted to know if I wanted to spend some time with her. I told her I couldn't until after work at the earliest, and that I didn't know if I could anyway. In reality, I didn't really want to spend any time with her, though of course there is that other part of me that wanted so bad to. I pushed it away.

Anyway, I told her to call me if she wanted to see me. We spoke a little bit online when I got home from work... she was getting drunk and thought we could just hang out the next day (Thursday) instead. I told her just to call me and let me know. Late that night, I told her good night on MSN, then went to bed.

Thursday, she never ended up calling me, so I called her before I went to bed. She was getting drunk, again. She was kinda rude to me, but I just let it slide because she'd been drinking, and told her to call me if she needed anything, then went to bed.

Friday, I called her up to see how she was doing. We chatted for a few, I asked her what was up, and asked her if she still wanted to hang out sometime. She said she didn't have a lot of time lately (curious.. she doesn't have a job) and she never really knew when she'd get to see Brett, so it was tough. Curious, I asked who Brett was, to which she merely said 'it's complicated.' Apparently, she broke up with her 'boyfriend' Jeff before her little 'vacation' to Vegas, then again afterward, but that time for good because she'd been seeing other people (ie, cheating on him I bet). Anyway, this Brett guy apparently works in Alaska for 4 months at a time, then comes back for a month or two before shipping back out. Nice relationship, if you ask me.

Regardless, her life is starting to spiral out of control again. She's gone and gotten trashed 3 nights in a row, has no money, has lots of big bills, and has likely cheated on yet another 'boyfriend' since I really saw her last. She also dyed her hair blonde (and, on an asian like her, it looks TERRIBLE). Her life is not as peachy-keen as she'd like me to think, and for some reason I feel....

Vindicated.

I feel as if her game that she decided to play is failing on her. Like the house of cards that formed her fantasy world is coming crashing down all around her, and she's starting to come out of the fog... starting to realize that maybe the life she had before wasn't so bad. I think it's only a matter of time before she tries to start having me back in her life again, more and more. Only a matter of time before she tries to find a way to ask me to take her back.

I will say, very enthusiastically, NO.

And though a part of me will yearn for her and ache so badly for saying that to her, I will not bend. She will have to fight if she wants to win my heart again. She will have to prove to me that she will never do anything like this ever again. It will be a battle and a struggle the likes of which she has never seen before. If, and only if, she can find a way to regain my trust again--a trust that is not easily won anymore, especially for her--I MAY consider trying again with her.

I honestly don't know if she can do it.

Anyway, thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? Feedback please.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

X,

I think you need to reconsider your stand on this. Your current approach is hurting you big time and it is YOUR OWN FAULT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You said
Sounds as if you have made a decision and frankly probably the best one available to you. You want to move on, and you don't want her back right?

Then you say:
Does this make sense in light of the first quote? Nope it does not. This is NOT her call it is yours. Make the call X. Either you have decided to move on ( good choice given the circumstances) or you haven't. In which case you have the wrong attitude.

But, either way calling her back and continuing to call her back is a foolish thing to do right now. You should NOT be hanging with her now. If you want this marriage you should NOT, as she is in an affair with some guy or another. If you don't want this marriage you shoud NOT be hanging with her because it is a waste of your time and her time.

If you want revenge, may I offer you TWO quotes
Get on with your life, have a good successful life, have a life filled with friends, family, smiles, laughter, trust and love. If you do these things, you will not have to worry about revenge, that will take care of itself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Heh, well I haven't called her since Friday, and I don't intend to. I also haven't hung out with her at all... instead I took this weekend to unwind and try to feel like a normal human being again. It was nice, to actually feel alive and to have fun.

Last night I ran into a girl I met back at a Halloween party... she just got a divorce, which will be final on December 4th, and she's really close to my age. She seemed pretty happy to see me, which really made me feel good. The fact that we're both going through divorces gave us a common ground, and though we avoided talking about our situations (really ruins the atmosphere, lol), it seemed to make us more comfortable and able to talk. I'm also learning how to go into situations like that with no expectations, something that was always a flaw of mine, and it's making life so much more exciting.

Anyway, I got her number. She told me to give her a call sometime, and gave me a kiss. I'm not sure if the kiss was genuine or if it was just the drinks I'd bought her, though, lol. Regardless, it was great, and made me feel good. It was definitely a pleasant reprieve for my bruised ego.

I am moving on. This marriage is over. I don't want it anymore. However, just because of the kind of person I am, I will not deny the fact that people can and do sometimes change. Were she to grow up and out of this phase of hers after our divorce, and were she to find me still unmarried and not in any signifigant relationship, I would not instantly shut the door in her face. It may be a flaw to some, but I am always optimistic, and I am always willing to give people another chance, should they prove that they deserve it. My WW, no matter what wrongs she has committed, is not exempt.

We will get a divorce. I will move on. I will continue my life without her. These things are determined, and will happen, no matter what. Ultimately, though, all I am saying is that I remain open to a chance at reconciliation, were it to realistically appear at some point in the future.

Anyway, right now I'm more focused on the present; living my life, being happy, and taking care of my wonderful son!

Now I just gotta remember... do you wait 2 or 3 days before you call a girl back after getting her number?!? Argh!

Oh well.

Goodbye inflated ego. It was nice knowing you. Come back and see me again sometime.

AND TODAY?

. . .

Huh? What about today?

Today is Thanksgiving, and I find myself with very little for which to be thankful. I am not saying that I have nothing, because that would be untrue... but I do have less than I should.

Anyway, I'm moving out of this house now. I've lived here 3 1/2 years... 3 of which were with her. It'll be like a new start. My son's room is all decorated and ready for him to come back home permanently. I gotta do so, also, because my WW made a veiled threat yesterday that made it sound like she was going to have him live with her at her place (mind you, she's seen him 3 times in 6 months... he doesn't even remember who she is) and start sending her to an expensive babysitter if I hadn't gotten him home with me before too long.. I need to get D papers filed and get an ex parte filed so that I can have full custody of him until the divorce is over. A) I don't want her to decide that she should take him and seek child support from me when that is all it would be about, and B) I don't want her claiming him on her taxes next year. All she thinks about is herself and her own money. I know she would be willing to do these things if I were to let her.

*sigh*

Yes, I did speak to her yesterday. Ran into her downtown at a bar, actually. She was there by herself and approached me to chat. I doubt she would have even talked about our son had she not seen a picture I had of him on my camera phone. Anyway, the conversation was short. Somehow she ended up talking about her current boyfriend, and I told her straight up that I wasn't interested in that conversation. I walked away from her at that point.

Anyway, I'm starting to become bitter, and I hate that. For Example: I hate love songs, because they're used by WS in stupid ways. The song she uses for her current boyfriend's ring tone on her phone is 'Far Away' by Nickelback, with the lyrics of 'I loved you/I've loved you all along.' To me, that's totally ridiculous and, if I were him, I wouldn't believe her because, well, she used to tell me that she loved me all along too, and clearly that was a lie.

How do WSes ever find lasting relationships with anyone besides their spouses and then only after a real recovery? I mean, seriously? Why would any single person in their right mind EVER trust someone who cheated on their SPOUSE? They violated VOWS... how can you believe them for a SECOND when they tell you how much they love you? How can you believe them for even a brief moment when they tell you that YOU are the one? They said that to someone else (if not more) and clearly you can see how much it really mattered then... that sorta makes the words pretty damn sour and worthless.

Do WSes just hide their affairs from the people they date post-divorce? Do they pretend that the affair never happened? Do they just say 'yeah, we didn't work out' and leave it at that? I mean, seriously, if they say 'Yeah, I cheated on him and left him' it would make them look stupid, and likely not get them very far with anyone new.

In all honesty, cheaters who don't attempt to make right what they destroyed... cheaters who don't try to repair their marriages... they don't ever deserve to be in a relationship EVER AGAIN. It should be branded on them that they were an adulterer, so that no one would ever trust them enough to want to be with them... so that their life is forever ruined. They don't deserve the happiness that a relationship could bring to them. And the only way they could 'mature,' learn from their mistake,' or 'change for the better' would be to go back to their spouse and make things right!!! End. Of. Story.

Nothing makes an affair right. Nothing. There is not one single excuse or reason that makes an affair right.

Abusive relationship? Physical or Mental, GET OUT OF THE MARRIAGE before you find someone new. While you are married, you are still bound by vows you made.

Fell out of love with your spouse? This is probably a lie, and it can probably be worked through very easily, if you're not SELFISH and LAZY. But still, if you can't work it out? GET A DIVORCE before you find someone new!

Think you're in love with some other person? THINK REALLY HARD about this. AVOID said person, TALK WITH YOUR SPOUSE, figure out what is missing in the relationship, FIX THE PROBLEMS. You have an OBLIGATION to VOWS you made. If you end up divorced, and ONLY AFTER, then you can move on.

There is QUITE LITERALLY ZERO EXCUSE for an affair. No, your spouse did not drive you to do it. So what if the OP made your blood boil in ways you haven't felt in years/made you feel 'worth something'/made you feel 'happy'/treated you like a person/etc. So what if they seem to be exactly what you want in a person. SO WHAT. You STILL have that OBLIGATION. Did you ever stop to think that your feelings of worthlessness/unhappiness/etc might have been YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT, and not the fault of your spouse? Probably not.

*sigh*

Sorry. End of rant.

Sorry... edited my post to add to it, lol.

So, here it is, more than a month since my last post. Christmas has passed, New Year's Day (my 4th anniversary) has passed, and I find myself a totally different person than I was, even when I wrote my last post. The values are the same, but the emotions are different.

My wife is gone. I don't care anymore. She can go on and be whatever she wants. Good riddance. My son lives with me full time. I have a really good job with awesome benefits. I'm surviving, and I'm actually starting to be happy again. I've met a wonderful young woman (who just happens to be the same age as my wife, but who is so much better a woman) whom I have been spending time with on occasion, and whom makes me feel good about myself with the way she respects me.

It's not a relationship. There have only been a few dates so far, and there has been no sexual relations at all. That's okay, because I don't think I'm ready for a new relationship anyway. But she makes me feel good. She gives me someone to talk to... more intelligent conversation has come from this friendship so far than EVER came from my marriage. ******, this might never BE anything more than a close friendship, and I've learned something... I'm okay with that.

No more expectations. I can only expect things of myself. I expect myself to be a good father. I expect myself to be a good employee. I expect myself to be a good man. I expect myself to respect others, and to teach that to my son. And I will not let myself down ever again.

My divorce will hopefully be final soon. I will be free of her, and I will be able to move on completely; to have closure. I am ready.

Is this the same girl that you met at Halloween who is also going through a divorce?

Anyway, take things slow. The MB men always seem to do quite well when they have to move on.