Mr. W. I respect you and your right to your views... but I disagree with this completely. The biology argument has resulted in the slaughter of tens of millions of babies at the hands of their mother.... just because we need to keep laws off their body... due to biology.
The point of the argument regarding the equal protection of a father when it comes to reproduction rights is a valid one. Women have been given an ufair ability to manipulate the system in their favor... for money and power... and many have used it as a punitive stick against the father. And they are able to do so... because of... biology.
I suspect that if men carried the children... the same women that line up for abortions in this country... 45 million since 1973... would be marching in the streets about the attrocities that men are committing on the unborn children.

McBecca-

I disagree with your statement "I may be a lousy wife, but that doesn't make me a bad mother. "

What are you teaching your 12 year old daughter about marriage?

My wife struggled with understanding this during her affair, but caught on afterwards.

During the affair, she felt our kids would live going back and forth between me, and her with OM.

My kids told her pretty bluntly that they would never live with OM...period. They'd love to live with her, but would have nothing to do with him.

My wife felt that she could still be a wonderful mom while living with OM.

She couldn't see that she was teaching her kids it was ok to 'run away' from their issues. She didn't see that she was teaching her kids to take the easy way out instead of doing the hard work of fixing your problems. She didn't agree that this was showing the kids that those vows weren't truly "til death do us part".

She does now tho. She stayed and worked things out. She realizes that things would have never worked out the way she wanted to do...and it would have been horrible for the kids had it gone that way.

What messages do you feel YOU are giving D12? Are they REALLY the messages that you feel she needs to hear?

Being a good mom doesn't require you to be married...but if you're married, being a good mom DOES require you to be a good wife.

And you ARE married.

It's that simple.

You really should ask your BH to come here and post...I think he could gain a lot of the support he needs to deal with things.

*snort*

I agree with you too Owl!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

MEDC, I have held back but this quote sets my blood boiling. There are many women that have raised children when the "father" didn't care to stick around after the pregnancy. There are situations like this one where the child has a real daddy, McBeccas's H, to raise them in an intact home with their siblings. YOU think it would be best for the child to be yanked from the mother who has loved and nourished her from birth to give to bio dad who had the audacity to have F sessions with a married woman!!!!!

You say you would never do it... but then sugggest that you are going to do just that. Do you mean because he isn't fighting you that you aren't taking them from him????




Your taking your H's children from him because of this... or allowing the OM to not see his child... does make you a bad mother. Come up with another solution. One that does not put your H's job ahead of your family.

NC can remain in place even with the Bio dad seeing his son. It can work out if you try to make it happen. If your H is insistent on divorcing if the OM has any contact with the child, you should surrender custody of your son to the OM and stay with your family. You are being selfish and unfair to everyone right now... everyone, but you! YOU will never give up any of YOUR children...well, they are not just YOUR children...there are two other men involved here too. YOU need to clean this up to allow for both fathers to see their children. YOU need to clean this up in a selfless manner.

Yes, that is what I am saying. Let your blood boil. The only reason the mother has been the one loving and caring for the child since birth is that the MOM made it that way. No, let the baby stay with a woman that had F sessions with a single man that she led to believe she was getting divorced. Let the baby stay with the mom that now is threatening to take her H's children away from him. That's a good solution. Your position ticks me off as well. Oh well. That's why we can all express an opinion here.

And there are many women that have pushed the father away FF. Many men in my postion would have given up considering the obstacles my ex made me get around. Many women have killed a mans child without his consent. But you keep on making this out to be a man/woman issue if it helps you prove your point. It weakens it for me.

Err,

Which is the greater evil: 1) a single man (no vows) having a F session with a married woman, or 2) a married woman (vows) having a F session with a single guy?

Just curious.

It seems that so many here are so quick to advocate that the bio dad should have no rights, and at the same time, the bio mom should have all rights. Somehow, maybe this is just because I am male, this just doesn't seem to resonate with me.

Someone that agrees to play daddy doesn't take away the fact that a child has only one biological father.

To this biological father, this is the issue. NO IMPOSTER COULD FILL MY SHOES AS MY KIDS DADDY. NEVER.

This child has a bio dad that is willing to fulfill his responsibilities . . . and the majority of people here are advocating excluding the man . . . denying that he matters at all . . . and assuming that some other man will have an equal stake in the welfare of this child? I just don't get it.

It is easy to get CN... it is the way society has weakened a mans position in the family. Watch any sitcom... look at the news and hear about dead beat dads being thrown in jail... never dead beat moms...it is just a sexist argument... has been since 1973! Ain't nobody happy if the momma ain't happy! If dads not happy... oh well.

I don't know how BH will react and I know he is going to ask me how I feel, I can't lie to him, I am torn once again and he needs to know this, otherwise all the "truth and honesty" stuff goes out the window....

Thanks,
McB

OM thought McBecca was SEPARATED(living in the same house separated <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)...SEPARATED=STILL MARRIED OM KNEW SHE WAS MARRIED...It is the responsibility of ALL, married and single to respect the institution of marriage...Otherwise the institution means NOTHING...

MARRIAGE VOWS say FORSAKING ALL OTHERS...ALL OTHERS APPLIES TO CHILDREN TOO...THAT IS HOW BINDING THE BOND IS SUPPOSED TO BE!!!

Mrs. W

Another example... look at this quote from earlier in this thread.... if this had come from a man... watch out... heck, the poor WW... she was talked into it by the big bad single wolf! She's not responsible! Imagine the uproar on this thread if this comment had come from a H's mouth!

I think that sperm banks further weakened men's standing as fathers. Who really needs a live-willing father when a woman can just go down to the clinic and select a specimen for herself?

It saddens me that men (biological fathers in particular)are often seen as superfluous in the lives of children

I guess things will turn around once we find our how to gestate an embryo in a box.

There are a lot of people that think separated is okay for dating. that is reality. Every singles site, Match.com etc... also allows for separated people on their site. I think it sucks... but it is reality. Hmmm, I seem to remember a discussion a few weeks back with Low Orbit and how I disagreed with his perspective on boundries when people are involved but not married.... and low and behold, his W then starts dating someone that deosn't respect the boundry of separated!

yeah, that would make for some interesting times huh??

So? This reminds me of the age old teenage argument "but everybody's doing it"...When I used that when I was a teen my parents said, "So? You aren't everybody, you are our daughter...And just because everybody's doing it, doesn't make it right...Times may change, but morals never do!"...I hated hearing that answer, but it was a good one and I plan on using it when my DD hits her teens and tries it on us...Dread those days though! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

No MEDC, it is an affair related issue. I understand WHY you feel so passionately, however, you conveniently are forgetting about the BH and the COM. Also why would it be better for the OC to bounce between homes when the BH could raise her as his own. Not all women are like your child's bio mom. McBecca was actually trying to do the right thing by working on her M. Out of respect for her trampled on BH, NC is the way to go.

Biology does not make a parent. My H has raised my DS since he was 6 years old. We married when DS was 8. Bio dad has occasional contact with my son. Who do you think the REAL father is in this case?

"Who do you think the REAL father is in this case? "

Easy answer . . . the bio dad is the father. Your husband is the surrogate. It is pretty simple actually.

I see nothing at all wrong with this woman giving the child to the bio dad and then doing no contact. Why do you see this as a poor option? Why do you assume that MrBecca would be a better dad than this child's father?

I just hope the bio dad has deep pockets and that he finds the best lawyer that he can. I know that if I fathered a child, even under these circumstances, I would spend my last penny insuring that I had access to my kid.

Biology does matter. It isn't the end-all be-all, but it does matter.

Who the real father is in your case has no bearing here. The OM wants to be a father. No, I don't think the best thing would be for the child to be bounced back and forth... I think the child should be with his father since it appears as though sharing custody is not an option for the Beccas.



You can save the DJ's. I am not conveniently doing anything. I have stood up for the BH and the father in this. YOU are conveniently not seeing the type of mother this woman is.



It's time to remove the MB blinders... this is about more than their obviously tenuous marriage. This is about a child getting to know a father that wants to be involved in his child's life.

We will need to agree to disagree. I am through defending my position to any poster here. I will merely state my opinion and if anyone doesn't like it, that is their perogative.

McBecca...Will you bring your husband here so that he can get the support that he very much needs right now...That would be a start at doing something unselfish for him...Will you please do that?

Mrs. W

No MEDC, this is about what is best for ALL the children and the McBeccas marriage. OM is an intruder pure and simple. He screwed a married woman. Too bad for him. This case is TOTALLY different from your case in EVERY conceivable way.

And it MUST be a full moon because I agree with Owl too. Pinch me someone.