No, I don't vent to WH. I do it all here. I was crabby with him today, but I called him and apologized, which is what led to our talk and his coming over for more talking on Sunday. Other than today, I think I'm doing a very good Plan A, especially in front of him.

And I wasn't necessarily panicking today, I was simply done. I'm tired of doing this same s*** day after day and I don't feel like it's getting me anywhere. And I'm frustrated because we're supposed to be "dating", but we haven't "dated" yet and it's been almost a week! And he's OK with that! That makes me mad too. When we were dating for real, before we got married, we saw each other every single day without fail. I was expecting something similiar to that again, although every day is not feasible, at least a couple times a week. He made an attempt to see me once this week.

It's the one step forward two steps back agenda that I hate.

So how should Sunday go?

And how on earth do you cyber spank??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

well Stef - that's all OK. I can tell you are not panicking but are frustrated. Try and set up some dates - don't be spontaneous be calculating - make it happen don't wait for it to happen.

Cyberspank. OK. Here it is...

Spank

or maybe this one

frypan

or this

Cyberspank

Well that wasn't very nice!!! LOL. But you got me to laugh. I can always count on you for that.

Is it normal for me to be frustrated?

I am waiting for him to make the moves. He messed up big time, he should be wooing me back. I don't want to keep calling him asking him for dates and setting things up. I've done that enough already. And he's not meeting any of my needs so far. Wonder why I'm ready to give up? This is about me too and he doesn't seem to think that. He's so selfish and immature and...ugh! I wish he would grow up already.

When he came and met me at the mall Wednesday, I made that happen and he didn't even know it. But it's time for me to be wanted calculated against. Not vice versa.

Stef - I totally understand you saying this but it is unfortunately a total fallacy. If he wanted you, he would have never run off with OW. He, at this point of time, still is in his affair and has his head up his [censored]. You want to be wanted, adored, appreciated. You want him to fall at your feet begging forgiveness, telling you how wrong he was and wat a gem you are and how he's such an [censored].

Whoever would have thought I would do a stand up comedy routine.

LOL

Stef - as hard as this is for you it is NOT going to happen like that however much you want it to. Unfortunately as much as it sucks and as much as it is unfair right now, all you can do is Plan A, and accept his crumbs. However when the affair really ends and he is out of contact with her, he may reluctantly decide you are his best option because of your stellar Plan A and he just might want to come home and maybe even see if he can give you another try.

Wayward spouses do not give a flying chit about their BS's is the sad truth. When my wife came home she hated me. She did it for the kids - to stop their pain but reconcilliation and love was not on her menu. As she withdrew from OM and her little fantasy, she committed herself to working on our marriage - the best of a whole host of bad choices as far as she was concerned. But because of NC she DID withdraw from OM and really did put in a big effort to our marriage. We had sex even when she was not in love with me and still hated me because she knew it was part of being married and she did everything she could to try and get that lovin feeling back for me and our marriage. She was fantastic when I look back because I realise there was a huge cost to her to do this for me.

Proof positive that if you act in loving ways, you end up in love. Go figure. Harley is right. The man is a genius. So my wife made a decision, a conscious decision to re-connect with me.

Fast forward a little while - couple of months into recovery and she actually starts to get it. She totally gets her betrayal and the apalling devastation she wreaked at her own hands on our children and on me. The shame and guilt almost destroyed her. She has had a he11 of a time dealing with herself. You think you are in pain now? It will be far worse on your husband eventually if he actually gets it and falls in love with you.

Stef - it has taken my wife close to 12 months to really be whole again and have her self respect and self esteem start to come back. It sucks being a BS yes, but even more being a WS I think. This cannot be rushed. A better marriage than you ever believed is possible for you but you need to be patient. Remember you have time on your side. This affair WILL inevitably end - it really will. Your plan A will help it end sooner.

Hope some of this helps you.

(((Stef)))

Hi Steph,
Big Kahuna is so right.
B/S want instant fix to the affair.
My DD was over a year ago, and my husband and I are finally at the point where we feel normal and every waking moment is not spent of thinking about the EA.

Our recovery has been slow, but steady.

You can do this too.

This is hard advice to take in, but now is not the time to allow your taker to have control of the situation.

This affair is not about you.

It is your husband using another woman to fill his need to feel good about himself.

Your husband has to first figure out that he has something valuable that he might lose.

Right now his images are of a woman that is high emotional and in his WS fog, uses this behavior as justification for his affair.

Get a grip on your emotions. Be sensible, and detach, detach, detach.

Plan A is about you finding validation, beauty, and strength within yourself. It is treating yourself to a new haircut, cute outfit, makeover.

It is realizing that you can not control him.

Nor should you want to. You want a husband that wants to be with you, not because you forced him into, but because he is realizing what a wonderful person you are.

Plan A does not mean you are a doormat.

Find what your boundries are and stick to them.

You will eventually come around to realize that you can live without your husband.

When you realize that life can be good, with or without your husband, you will then be in a better position to attract your husband back.

What is more appealing?

A wife that is confident, happy, and loves her husband but doesn't need him,
or
A wife that is controling, needy, pitiful, and deperate.

Human naturaly avoids clingy vines, and draws towards those that make them feel good and have confidence in themselves.

Whew, that was long.

Hang in there Steph,

Remember, your mantle should be,"I don't do divorce", "I only do marriage".

Best wishes,

k.d.'s heartbreak

BigK, exactly what you said worked regarding SF is exactly why I was having SF when I shouldn't have. We're both trying to get that feeling back, or see if it's still there. And it is. He even admitted the other night that it was working. Not that he's coming back just because of that, but it's getting him closer to admitting his feelings and not wanting to let me go.

Everything you said is right, and logically I know that, but sometimes, when I'm feeling done with the M, it all goes out the window.

In the beginning I thought if he would just stop the A and come home and work on the M, everything would be fine and forgiven, no problem. Now, I'm starting to harbor more resentment toward him than I thought was possible. And I don't know if I can forgive him. I don't know if I can ever look at him and not think about what he did to me. Or fear that he's doing it again or will do it again. But, having said that, I still believe in our M and want it to work.

He's starting to get it and he's starting to fall back in love with me, but I think it scares him, because he thought he had his mind made up about D and he thought that would be the easiest way out and I would let him and the M go easier than I have. He was taken aback when I told him I didn't want the D and we can fix the M even after the A. But now, if he stays in the M, he's going to have to deal with the guilt that he has (and he finally has it!).

I thought more about it last night, and I'm not going to push him into staying in the M tomorrow when we talk. I want him to do the talking and I'll react in my Plan A way.

kd, thank you so much for your post. It's nice to hear a new voice! I'm tired of BigK's wisdom,LOL (j/k BK, I don't know where I'd be without you).

I'm not sure if you've read my thread, but I've come a long way in the past month and a half. My Plan A is working big time, I've learned a lot about myself, I've started taking care of me. WH has noticed my confidence level rise and has made several comments on it. We've talked about it a lot. When we are together, it's like brand new again. Yesterday I slipped because I was done with the M and didn't care about Plan A. He knows that I don't need him here, we've also talked about that. I have thought a lot about my boundaries and have told WH what all of them are except one. It'll come later. And I'm glad I have established them, there for a while I was feeling like a doormat, but I don't anymore. I have never in my life been a doormat, and I didn't like the feeling! I do all my venting and whining here, not to WH. He doesn't have any idea of what I'm going through.

I have detached from him...I don't usually contact him in any way and if/when I do, it's not near as often as it was in the beginning of our separation. Now he's the one who can't stay away from me! In the beginning, I was almost panicking (inside) if I talked to him and we didn't make arrangements to see each other, for whatever reason. It was almost like I was never going to see him again. Now I'm way more calm and don't freak out about it, because I know it won't be too much longer before he'll want to see me.

But all of this could change after our talk tomorrow. I doubt it, but you never know.

Anyway, thanks for posting to me, I really appreciate it. I look forward to more posts from you.

Today, I'm feeling better and more willing to stay in Plan A and the M.

This rollercoaster sucks.

Stef - Major difference in our situations. My wife's affair was over. She was living back with me and SF was an act of love even when she felt no love. THe SF you have with your husband is no more than a booty call for him. It is dangerous to your mental health and also your physical health. You must not have SF with WH until he is back home with you and wanting to work on your marriage. SF with him right now is the biggest single mistake you can make in saving your marriage. Do not think our situations are in any way similar.

I will post again shortly....

stph20,

It seems to me that you are in a very vulnerable state at the moment. You have a lot of things going your way but you are letting feelings and doubts cloud your judgment. That is why there is a plan. As they say in scuba, plan your dive - dive your plan. You have a plan. Stick with that plan regardless of how you feel about it. Your instincts can deceive you very easily right now. Remember that it is not just you in this deal. Your WH has choices to make and consequences to deal with too. Your WH will always have to deal with the guilt regardless of whether he stays with you or leaves and regardless of whether you forgive him or not. I wouldn't worry about forgiveness just yet. My thought is that he has to prove he deserves it.

One of the things I have learned from this site is that the one who wants the relationship the least is in control. It is okay to detach and it is okay that WH wants the M more than you. That is no cause for alarm at the moment. It is, IMO, healthy for you. You will eventually find a new balance but, until now, the weight has been on his side. Now you have more weight on your side. Eventually it will even out.

OK STef. I believe you have done a stellar job of Plan A for at least the last 6 weeks, maybe longer.

I want you to start thinking about the following.


These are words from Dr Harley himself. I would like you to start reading about Plan B Stef because you may need to do this. Do not start Plan B as I want to put you in touch with a Plan B expert before you take this step.

I'm not trying to suggest that our situations are similiar...I don't think. I'm just trying to explain to you why I did have SF with WH. And it was working. I haven't in a while, as discussed earlier in TKO, but when I did, it was working. And how was it an act of love when your W didn't feel love at the time? Sounds kind of similiar to me. I'm not trying to argue, just understand.

Pio, you're right, I am vulnerable and I do forget WH's feelings a lot of the time. I feel like the "victim" and like WH "owes" me the feelings that he's not quite feeling yet. I need to get out of that mentality. It's not healthy and it's totally clouding my judgement.

Am I ready for Plan B? If not, how will I know when I am ready? This kind of scares me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'll not get into the timing issue. I just want to reiterate that more marriages are salvaged from Plan B than Plan A. Plan B is a daunting prospect but, once implemented, you begin to understand the beauty in its simplicity. My Plan B was short-lived but extremely effective. I may have been lucky. I also benefitted from a really good (IMHO) Plan A. I started my Plan B with some very clearly defined guidelines for return to the M (the infamous Plan B letter). If believer had not continued to post the Dobson excerpt to me, I never would have done it. But once I made up my mind to go Plan B, it couldn't happen fast enough. I was very upset, in fact, when it didn't happen in Miami.

Don't look at Plan B as having failed Plan A. Vey few marriages recover from Plan A alone. You do need a good Plan A before going to Plan B. Going to Plan B too soon will kill the chances for R IMO. BigK is telling you that your Plan A is working so well, it is time to start thinking about Plan B in case you might need it. It is like Neil Armstrong walking on the moon. One small step - one giant leap.

Stph20,

None of your approach has worked yet.

Your H’s coming home on Sunday is a booty call. Nothing short of that. He wants to know that he still has you on the hook and that his [censored] is sooooo good that you just can’t help but lay yourself down like a doormat and give it to him.

It sounds sick, but this is high school mentality and it’s really is SICK thinking. It’s sick thinking backed up by the reality that IT IS WORKING for him.

You have done plan A from what I’ve gathered.

Your H is already out of the house; which is a godsend to some BS’s that are trying to get their mate OUT of the house to start a plan B.

Start effective plan B immediately!

Cancel the booty call today.

Give him your plan B letter describing your terms of re-engagement in the M.

Plan B will allow your H to see the results of his choice to commit adultery on you in their completeness.

I’ll tell you something about your H that may hurt but it’s true.

This man is nothing special. He doesn’t deserve [censored]. He has to earn everything that he has in life.

Listen to people here if you want to save your M.

If you want to “do it your way” then do it your way, but be able to face the consequences and own your actions completely also.

Steph, remember not doing anything is a choice. Sometimes it’s the worst one you can make.

I wish you well.

Steph, I agree with the others. Its time to go to Plan B and let him suffer the consequences of his choices. You need to be removed from his little triangle and let him see how much he really does need you. Going completely DARK in Plan B will remove you from his insanity and allow you to detach yourself. If you keep this up, you will be insane by the time he is ready to come back.

If you decide to do it, read up on it and do it right, though! A half [censored], ill-prepared Plan B causes more damage than not doing it at all.

OK, I've read all the posts, thank you all, and I've decided that after we talk today, if things aren't resolved still, I will implement Plan B. I will give him this one last chance (if he doesn't stand me up and we do talk). I honestly never thought I would have to go to Plan B, but obviously I do. It's a little scary, but this whole ordeal has been scary and I've survived!

I do have to disagree with his coming over as a booty call. WH may think it is, but I'm not giving it up. We are going to take a walk to the park and talk there, with no distractions.

What I'm getting from Plan B is that I write him a letter and then go completely dark. No contact with him whatsoever for any reason, correct? If I'm going to do it, I want to do it right. How long will this last for? Do I give him my timeframe?

You will know u r ready for plan B when he is still being a WS AND your mind & heart are in sync. NO SOONER!!!

Until then you stay in plan A and WORK towards strengthening your stance, your support, identify your boundaries, secure your fianances and basically keep moving forward. If he is still a WS at that point, go to plan B.

You know what plan B is right? I certainly hope so. Going into plan B is NOT about bringing him home. It is about setting YOUR personal boundaries and removing you from the chaos of the A.

That is why it must be swift, firm and strong. Plan B is not the weak or 1/2 hearted. No SF during plan B.

L.

Steph, don't tell him anything about Plan B. It lasts until you reconcile or until you decide you want a divorce.

I've missed you Orchid!

In everyone's opionion, and I know they will be various, I have been in Plan A for about 6 weeks now and it has been slowly working...I've been seeing changes in WH that weren't there before. Have I been in Plan A long enough? Do you all think I am truly ready for Plan B...not emotionally, but otherwise?

Thanks for the link Pep...I've missed you too! It's nice to see everyone coming out of the woodwork!

It was exactly what I needed. I get the reasoning for it now.

The difference is the affair was over and we were in recovery. Big dffference.