Hmmm...I thought I was doing good.

just reminders steph!

Maybe you are doing good -- its really hard for us to know that. You don't post about your daily interactions...just a big conversation here or there.

You are doing better than most BSs, but there is ALWAYS room for improvement. Don't get down on yourself, just keep that in mind.

Thanks Jim and Lexxxy.

BigK, I have NOT started up any kind of relationship talk with WH. I am just replying to his questions, concerns, etc. That's why I thought I was doing good. He needs to hear that I'm still committed...that's how he is and has always been.

I came home late last night and WH started talking to me about the "future" again. He was very heartfelt and emotional in his conversation with me. He explained why he cheated with her again (it was to see if I was right and he realized that I was). He realizes that she doesn't really care about him and he said that some people just like being miserable(meaning her staying with BF while she's telling WH how unhappy she is). I did not plant any of that in his head. He realized that she was never going to leave BF for him. And that he was essentially alone while separated from me.

I got a heartfelt apology and a heartfelt "thank you for staying with me and loving me through all of this". Those were his exact words.

NOW, I realize that this still does not mean we are in recovery.

I did tell him that recovery can't start until there is no contact (the end of January). He did say that he is ready for NC and if for some reason the new job doesn't pan out, we would do some thinking together and he would possibly find another job, or think of some way to get rid of her. But HE said, there's got to be some things that we can do until NC happens. I told him that I would find out what they were and let him know.

OK - I misunderstood - Answering questions is fine as long as you do it without LoveBusting him.

You are doing good Stef. Sorry if you thought I was implying otherwise.

BigK-

I haven't LBed WH at all.

He told me last night that he "broke up" with OW yesterday. He said she was hurt and lost as what to do now.

Who knows if the conversation happened or not...I'm trying not to worry about it too much.

But we did have a really good evening together. I am still in Plan A and getting very good at it. I think I started making lots of deposits last night!

Stef - You do understand you are banned from SF don't you?

Stph,

She isn't the least bit lost for what to do. I know exactly what she will do and it will be to contact your WH and tell him how much she loves him and needs him. That is all it will take for him to be right back in her arms. This is why you need absolute NC. The only way I would truly believe they were broken up is to see them on an episode of "Cops" with blood streaming from both where they had beat each other over the head and both were in handcuffs. OP's always have a way of laying on the guilt. They always know how to make the WS come running back. I swear they must keep ipecac in their purse so they can throw up on command.

Remember that your WH is a liar - even if he believes he is telling the truth. He is weak. That is why he had an A to begin with. He is too weak to stop if OW still wants him. Until you have NC, nothing has changed regardless of what he says.

That's not what I was referring to BigK....but no, I didn't know I was STILL banned from SF.




I know Pio. You are exactly right. That's why I'm trying not to worry too much about it right now. I'm going to keep up my Plan A until the end of January when she is supposedly leaving. Then I'll go from there. But Plan A is working beautifully so far, even though it's only been a couple of days since we've been back at the house.

I had a "shame on me" moment last night.

I was with WH and I kept thinking about D-day and the A and OW and everything I've had to go through since July and he asked me what was wrong and he was being so nice and I just broke down and cried and bared all to him.

I told him that I feel utterly alone in this and I'm frustrated because of that. I told him that I have been in fight mode since July and I'm tired and I'm scared and I don't know if this is going to work and how hurt I've been and that I've been thinking a lot about Dday and him with her and he's already done this twice, how do I know he's not going to do it again? He held me and told me that he's here, he wants to be here, nothing is going on with her. I told him that I'm impatient and I want to get to the bottom of all of this and fix whatever went wrong and make it better, but I want it done now, even though I know it's going to take time. I told him that I'm not seeing enough action from him that show me he really wants to be here...he put some of his collectibles on the wall of our spare room tonight and he pointed at that when I said this, since that's where my breakdown happened. I told him that part of me wants to keep up the fight, but another part of me is tired of fighting. I said I know it hasn't really been that long, but when I've been in constant fight mode, it feels like forever and it makes me so sad because I never thought this would happen to us. I've told him earlier this week that I've had a gut feeling something else was going on, and I said tonight that I can't shake that feeling. He swore again that nothing was going on.

He was very understanding and he said that he wants to be with me, but if I give up and decide I can't do it, he won't resent me for it. Then he started getting uncomfortable and dropped the subject and hasn't talked to me about it, or much of anything else, since.

And I want to talk things to death, WH wants to sweep it all under the rug.

I know he can't give me too many more answers, but I need them so badly and I'm so tired of this....I want my life back...I'm tired of feeling so alone...

It's been a really bad week for me dealing with this and I don't know why.

Part of what you did is great and part is not. It is great that you were honest and told him how you feel. It is not great that you told him he is not doing enough. If I were you, I would restrict these outbursts to you and how you feel and are affected. WH put some things on the wall of his and you said it was not enough. Maybe to him it meant quite a lot. Don't know but neither do you.

As far as sweeping it under the rug, that's where gemela and I have been since the beginning. First I think it was resentment but I believe we have graduated to shame. No matter the reason, it is difficult for her to talk about regardless of how much it might help me. The good news (for her) is that I simply don't care any more so I have no need to ask. You have diagnosed your own problem - impatience. What are you going to do about it?

I posted this a long time ago but will repeat. In the movie Jaws, Robert Shaw talks about his (character's) experience of 4 days in the water after the sinking of the Indianapolis. He talked about the number of men killed by sharks every day. He then talked about the plane spotting them and the imminent resuce. He said he was never so scared until the moment it was his turn to be rescued.

I think part of you looks at January as being your best greatest hope. Yet another part of you sees it as your greatest fear. Right now you have a lot of places to lay blame if the M does not work out (WH, OW, contact, etc.). Once OW leaves, it all rests on you. It is daunting. Nearly as bad as the fear of failure is the fear of success.

You hit it on the nose Pio. I'm scared to death. I'm scared of her leaving, of her staying, of WH walking out again, of him staying in our M, of our M working, of it not working out, of doing all the work this is going to entail, of not doing enough work, of not having a good enough M, of having a better M, everything about this scares me.

I didn't realize that until just now, but you're absolutely right.

I know I shouldn't have told him that he wasn't doing enough, he may have thought it a grand gesture. Especially him asking me to help him do it. That was bad on my part and that's the kind of thing I need to think about before I say it. But I, again, let my emotions control my words.

And, as I said, I'm a talker...I want it all out in the open. I want to disect every aspect of our M before and the A and fix it.

Yes, we all know I'm impatient by now. You asked what I'm going to do about that....I don't know. I guess I'm holding out for OW to leave. So, in my own way, I'm also sweeping it under the rug until then. Probably fear. I don't want to step on WH's toes just yet. The A is still too raw for both of us. I fear any wrong move I make will take him right back to her. I'm probably right to feel this way, but I also don't know if that will happen. Fear. Of everything.

No risk - no reward. No pain - no gain. All these things are cliché and yet true.

But the question is - what are you afraid of? Those things you mention are events. People shouldn't fear events - only the results of those events. So what are you really afraid of?

I don't know what I'm really afraid of. I don't think about it. I still am in fight mode and that's been my focus.

If I had to disect myself, I guess I would say I fear the unknown. I don't know how my life will turn out with WH. I don't know how it will turn out without WH.

I guess I also fear opening myself up to WH again and being hurt again. This already hurts so much, I don't know if I can take much more, be it in 2 weeks, or 20 years from now. IF he does it again, which I also don't know and right now, neither does he.

((((((((((((((((stph20))))))))))))))))

Thanks for sharing.

I don't know what the 'experts' will tell you...we'll both wait and see.....

...maybe next time you might consider coming to 'talk' to us rather than WS??... because I don't think this is part of your PLAN A...which is until....what???...end of January....when it will be either recovery plan for M or PLAN B...

...because, since you are still living with a WS who, we will assume, can't 'hear' very well yet, even though you were being truthful about how you felt, I suspect these kind of 'outbursts' could continue to drain the LoveB and give fuel to WS to justify going back to OW....should he choose to want to.... because as Pio has so well put it....WS's are 'weak'......

...stph20....in MB terminology...sounds like your Taker is screaming for attention... that's why you have to find ways to look after yourself and find support elsewhere other than your WS...and not expect much from your WS for the time being....because at this point your WS won't be much help until N/C with OW has been established and he has gone through withdrawal....

...as you know, most of us 'have been there', and so I am sorry that you are in the situation that you are in..... what you are trying to do is not easy...

...but hang in there....if you still want to give it your best shot....and remind yourself that one way or the other....relief is in sight....whether it be in the form of a recommittment to M from your WS with a plan for recovery, or....PLAN B and on your way to 'personal' recovery....

Welcome to the club, stph20...

What you are feeling is normal...and that is why it's important to have a 'plan' to help you stay 'on course'...

I remember watching an interview with Tiger Woods and his Dad....they were talking about their SOP strategies.... I think it's a military term....Standard Operating Procedure.... Tiger had been 'trained' in strategies on what to do in different situations to help with the concentration and reduce the stress level...

...so...you will have to think of your own SOP strategies when the 'fear' factor....or the impatience...or the need to want to fix things NOW....start to take over....

I need to sign off for now, stph20...but I see that Pio has some very helpful and insightful comments for you...

...so...take care!

Luna is correct and, with all due respect, I don't think that is something you have yet grasped. I was watching the movie Blackhawk Down and I was amazed at how calm those rangers could be in that situation. But I knew that the reason they were is because they had trained and they had a plan. They had plans for when the other plans fell through. Everything - even the chaos - was planned. So yes - follow the plan and ignore the terror. Why do I always talk about movies? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

There is always truth in fiction.

So, Pio....STOP BEING RIGHT ALL THE TIME!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

You're more insightful to me than I am to myself and I always thought I was a pretty deep, in touch person.

I keep losing sight of my plan.

I had an argument with WH tonight. Has not been good. We will probably not speak much to each other until sometime tomorrow or Sunday. This whole night since he's been home has been bad. And, it's his fault, but I didn't stop myself the way I should have. LBed a lot tonight. But it's times like that when I realize that, really, I don't have a clue what I'm doing. And it makes me wonder what I'm fighting for.

If you had a plan, it wouldn't matter. Are you a diver? I've never passed my Advanced Open Water. Fear of sharks mainly. But I think of this like orienteering underwater. You are on the surface and see the dive boat exactly 1/2 Km off in the distance. You note which direction it is. You dive and start swimming in the direction. You swim exactly 1/2 km and surface. What do you think the odds are of hitting the boat? Not very good. In fact you are likely no closer to the boat than when you started only now you are very tired and almost out of air.

Don't be distracted by your feelings. I was ready to call it quits a hundred times (still am) but it is not the plan. If I followed my feelings, I would be divorced. Your feelings deceive you - just like they deceived WH in his A. Do you still love your WH - even a little bit?

Yes I do. I no longer think I'm in love with WH, and my love for him has disipated, but I do love him.

I also believe that we can both fall back in love with each other...we did it once, we can do it again.

I need to strengthen up and maintain my Plan A until NC is established, then maybe WH will jump on board.

It's just been a roller coaster week and I'm not used to dealing with that yet (hard to believe, I know).