As far as I can tell, it has.

She left the 2nd PA with some pretty hateful feelings toward the OM.

The EA was ended for her when I called the OM wife and she, him and I had a conference call. I haven't seen any signs that contact has continued, but of course, I can't be on her work computer or phone. Such things could still be happening, but I'm hoping the OM wife is being vigiliant as well.

I don't understand her violent resentment much. You (and all the others) are right -- those who have nothing to hide have no fear of the truth.

I will press a little harder down some avenues I haven't walked in some time to see if I can find any evidence of contact. It would help explain a lot.

Thanks

Artor, if she were committed to repairing her marriage, I would expect to see her WELCOME your snooping so she could prove her innocence. Her hostility to being open tells me she is seeking a secret life. Has she always been like this?

No need to apologize. I have no one to talk this through with and just putting the thoughts together to post is very helpful.

My wife has always been flirtatious. This has been a problem with us for some time. She views it as being friendly and points to my introverted nature to explain why I don't understand being "friendly and sociable".

I have some fears that she may indeed be "addicted" to affairs or at least the extra attention they provide. I cherish her -- do my best to provide for her -- tell her she's beautiful and I love her. I've done this because I love her. Have I been a perfect spouse? Not by a long shot.

I describe our current situation (a few months out from last exposure) as a manic-depressive honeymoon. At times I'm happy and at other times I'm profoundly sad. At times she's clinging to me, holding my hand and telling me she loves me and at other times she's angry and resentful of my accusations and "spying".

I have been pretty diligent and believe that I have confronted and stopped a couple of friendships before they got "too special".

This could explain the vehemence with which she refuses to look for another job. She is probably the best looking woman in her office and I have seen a few emails that walk a fine line in terms of flirtation. Perhaps she enjoys this position of attention and refuses to leave because she would have to start all over again.

I know that sounds bad, but it does explain a lot.

Thanks for the thought -- I'll give it some serious thought.

Does she work with the OM?

Artor, I spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio back in April about serial cheaters. You might get something frm this thread below. Basically, he said that marital recovery is possible if the serial cheater is VERY COMMITTED to recovery and is willing to take a more global approach to protecting the marriage. That would mean doing things like accounting for time, ending all contact with other men, etc. She would have to make some MAJOR changes to affair proof your marriage and get into recovery. But, she would have to be WILLING and I don't see any indication of willingness from your posts.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

Hi Artor (this is 090886- I changed my name)

You said:


No, I don't think our vows are just for show but I think you're holding them up to an almost impossible standard. If you had the traditional vows as I did, you also promised to love, honor and obey your wife. Have you kept those vows, every minute of your marriage? No? Then should you throw those out too?

I think our vows are a GOAL to work towards. An ideal. When we mess up, we try try again.

I'm not trying to diminish your pain. I feel it too (I am a FWW and also a betrayed spouse). I'm just trying to point out something that I have thought about in my own recovery. I just wanted to tell you about it, in case it could help you too.

Best of luck Artor.

P.S. Yes, fire that counselor! Find another one.

Thanks, SR, for the feedback.

This same issue came upon the Recovery board regarding renewing vows.

I don't remember our specific vows (should look them up), but they were very traditional and did involve "love, honor, cherish, obey . . . forsaking all others".

Yes, I agree that they are the goals and intent of marriage that they be the guidelines for husband/wife interaction. But I can't help drawing a distinction between violating "love, honor, cherish, obey" and "forsaking all others".

Many times I did or did not do things out of thoughtlessness and/or insensitivity that reflected a lack of love, honor and cherishing toward my wife. In no way did I mean for that to be the interpretation, but it was and I was wrong in that commission / ommission. During any of those episodes I never stopped loving my wife or stepped outside our marriage and had someone else fill the role of my wife.

Infidelity, in my frequently-wrong-and/or-biased opinion is an abandonment of the marriage. I know there will be those that will disagree with this opinion and I welcome the illumination such opposing views provide. In effect, the wayward spouse is choosing to end the marriage before the whole "'til death do us part" clause. As long as one spouse is willing to hold the "contract" (vows) as valid, the marriage can be saved. Usually, but not always, this is the betrayed spouse seeking restoration and recovery. The married couple may recover and resume the marriage under the vows.

God can operate in absolutes. A white lie is as bad as murder in His eyes. The Bible is pretty clear there.

I am not God (ask my wife) and I can't operate in absolutes.

I can state my intent and it is to not have an affair ever. Period. Forever and Ever Amen.

What I think the problem in this for me is the intentional nature of infidelity. It's a choice. I would agree with you if a husband or wife intentionally chooses repeatedly to act in ways that don't "love, honor, cherish, obey" then the marriage is in trouble.

Obviously, my opinion has been shaped by my experiences, but while I view each of our failures to continually "love, honor, cherish, obey" as rocking the lifeboat and letting some water in, I view infidelity as shooting holes in the bottom of it.

Right now I'm bailing water with all my energy and am writing from that perspective.

Thanks

Artor,

I would agree with Mel.

For me transparencies purpose is two fold. One being you don't have to worry or snoop as much. That is a negative energy for you. If the FWW/WW is an open book then you will feel more trusting that the A is over and possibly if it becomes a way of life another one won't start.

If the FWW/WW knows that every one of her actions needs to be accounted for then the likely hood of repeating those actions may lesson.

In a sense it is a way to make sure she acts in a way she would around you. If she woulnd't do x when you are there with transparency it opens that up to you in essence always being there. Less likely hood of a reapeat of the incident.

I don't know that I articulated it correctly. My rule is whenever I am in a sitch I stop and think to myself if my FWW was here would I being acting this way. If the answer is no then I stop. That is what transparency can do for you. It can help the WW ask that one question because if they know that whatever they do they will have to tell you and be honest about it they may not do it.