Thanks to all for your thoughts and ideas. I guess I'll need to imaginative to keep it fresh and entertaining.

Brownhair-- the good thing about older offspring is you don't need babysitters. All it takes is $20 to send them off to the movies! lol

Now I'm looking for some naughty lingerie. Anyone have a good website?

I'm planning to make sure he's too tired for porn...

www.wickedtemptations.com <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

www.trashy.com

Good for you. You know what they say when you fall off the horse you gotta get right back in the saddle.

Dr Bill Harley writes in the MB web site:
In the Q&A Columns, Addiction to Pornography, What to Do When Your Spouse Has an Addiction to Pornography:

“Introduction: The topic of this week's column, addiction to pornography, is very similar to alcohol addiction, a topic I covered two weeks ago. Both of them represent a condition that makes compliance with the Policy of Joint Agreement almost impossible. And for that reason alone, it ruins marriages. “
…
“But it's more difficult to demonstrate the inappropriateness of some of the private forms of sexual addiction, such as masturbating to pornography. After all, who could possibly be hurt by such a private and unobtrusive act? No one, if you're single. But if you're married, your spouse could be, and usually is, very offended by such behavior “
…
“There are two policies that I encourage couples to follow: The Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement (they are both described in my Basic Concepts). If you follow them both, you can resolve almost every marital conflict known to man. But in your husband's effort to solve his sexual problem, he has not followed either of these rules, and that's why you are so upset with him.”
…
You can read on here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5050a_qa.html

DLK21

From the book “Wild at Heart (Discovering the secret of a mans soul)” by John Eldredge:

[color:"blue"]--Why is pornography the number one snare for men? He longs for the beauty, but without his fierce and passionate heart he cannot find her or win her or keep her. Though he is powerfully drawn to the woman, he does not know how to fight for her or even that he is to fight for her. Rather, he finds her mostly a mystery that he knows he cannot solve and so at a soul level he keeps his distance. And privately, secretly he turns to the imitation. What makes pornography so addictive is that more than anything else in a lost man's life, it makes him feel like a man without ever requiring a thing of him. The less a guy feels like a real man in the presence of a real woman, the more vulnerable he is to porn.

--Why is pornography the most addictive thing in the universe? Certainly there's the fact that a man is visually wired, that pictures and images arouse men much more than they do women. But the deeper reason is because the seductive beauty reaches down inside and touches your deepest hunger for validation as a man you didn't even know you had, touches it like nothing else most men have ever experienced. If he can feel like the hero sexually, well, then mister, he's the hero. Pornography is so seductive because what is a wounded, famished man to think when there are literally hundreds of beauties willing to give themselves to him? (of course, it's not just to him, but when he's alone with the photos, it feels likes it's just for him). It's unbelievable how many movies center around this lie? Get the beauty, win her, bed her, and you are the man. You're a stud.

USING HER
Most men want the maiden without any sort of cost to themselves. They want all the joys of the beauty without any of the woes of battle. This is the sinister nature of pornography--enjoying women at her expense. Pornography is what happens when a man insists on being energized by a woman he uses her to get a feeling that he is a man. It is a false strength as I've said, because it depends on an outside source rather than emanating from deep within his center. And it is the paragon of selfishness. He offers nothing and takes everything.[/color]

DT,

I think that is a very giving gesture that you want to entice and delight your man with your sexual charms. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My I offer a small suggestion?

Send him a copy of the lingerie website and solicit him to become a part of the buying decision. Let him indulge his fantasies by making selections that will best “stir his drink”. He will be associating lingerie images with you in them and because of that association you will be in the best position to “rock his world”. In fact, the sex act will start well before anything physical. It’s all takes place in the biggest sex organ of all, the brain. Plus, it becomes a project that’s fun and develops closeness.

Best of luck,
Mr. G

nice idea in theory, for general case.
The trouble with lingerie catalogs, is that it invokes the porn trigger for the husband. The best thing for DT, is to encourage her husband AWAY from looking at other naked, or even half-naked, women.


The last thing she needs, is to buy a wonderful piece of cute frilly underwear, only to have her husband associate it with another woman's image.


yes, I think it's important to get the husband's feedback on what kind of lingerie turns him on.

But encouraging him to look at lingerie catalogs instead of straight-up porn, is a dangerous game.

If the wife in question happens to look like all the models in the catalog, probably not much harm.
But, most wives do not look like lingerie catalog models.

Techie-- Thanks, that's exactly what was going through my mind reading Goodstuff's post.

Suset. That's a wonderfully poetic and insightful passage. I'm going to order the book.

Once again, I find myself doing the "heavy lifting" in the M, but I'm coming to accept that it's the hand I've been dealt. Luckily, FWH is so sweet in so many other ways, it keeps my lovebank out of deficit territory.

Girlfriend Brownhair and Best Bud Hurtingless-- These look like very useful resources. I could develop some bad spending habits, but let's see who complains!

I had forgotten how good it feels to have the wisdom and support of my MB friends. Each of you is a true treasure.

DT,

Good for you again. Somebody needs to take the lead and if it has to be you it is to the benefit of your M.

Techie,

I need to tell you that I have actually purchased lingerie for my FWW. She wanted a baby doll when we were out one time but they had none in her size. The next day I wanted to get her one. Heck she wants one I will get it. I went to fredericks, victoria secrets and finally a place called A touch of Romance. In each store they had pictures of women in bra's and panites, and lingerie and the baby doll I ended up getting was even a featured item with a picture of a women in it. Well I bought it and brought it home for my FWW. When she put it on all I could think about was the pictures of the other women when I looked at my FWW. I did a mental comparison of what the other woman looked like and what my FWW looked like. Quite fankly that's all I could think about.

Oh wait that isn't what happened. My FWW, the woman that I love put it on and my jaw dropped to the ground. My heart was pumping and as a 37 year old man I felt like a kid in a candy store. I didn't know what to do first. But I can tell you the last thing that crossed my mind was the pictures I saw trying to find this little outfit. To this day when she puts that on I feel the same way.

DT - Think to yourself for a moment please. Have you ever seen a really good looking guy? Have you ever bought your H underwear? My FWW buys me boxer briefs that have a picture of a goodlooking toned guy on the package. I doubt when I put on those boxer briefs that she is sitting there with a picture of the model in her head. Doing a mental comparison between his pecs and my pecs. His arms and my arms.

I think there is a big differentiation between admiring the human form and lusting after it. Always having impure thoughts. Comparing my FWW with other women if they are both wearing the same thing.

To me that is a mental image or thought that you need to try to get rid of.

I love my FWW and her body. She has a scar from her C section and some stretch marks from carrying my two boys. You know what when I see those lingerie models and they don't it makes my FWW even more special and attractive to me. Why because she had MY children. Those things, that some would call an imperfection are proof of our life together.

We all grow older. I knew that when I married my FWW and she knew that when she married me.

You are beutiful to your H because you are you. Every mark, wrinkle, grey hair, stretch mark etc are a part of your life together. Some of the grey hairs might be caused by him.(lol) He has watched you turn into the person you are today and he probably loves you for it.

Be honest with yourself and ask if you have every seen a bill board or a magazine or a picture of another man and just looked at it for a second longer then you should have. Did you go home and pick your H apart because he didn't look like that guy? I doubt it because you don't seem like that type of person to me.

I may be rambling but remember you have something these models don't, a history with your H. That history is what makes you beutiful to him.

HL, this is very, very cool. But let me ask you a question. Were you in the process of trying to kick a porn habit at that time?

I think it was Mr. W who once told me that during his wife's affair, he used some porn. And it left an imprint on his brain -- mental images he had to forcibly remove from his mind once he and Mrs. W started down the road to recovery.

Using porn -- especially if you do it alot and/or over a long period of time -- can change the way you percieve a lot of things. Including your wife's body. No matter how much you love her.

I know my husband loves me. I know he thinks I'm beautiful. "Stunning" and "Hot" are words he has actually used recently to describe how he views me. But he also used porn compulsively for years. And even now -- after six months on the wagon (as far as I know) -- when we're making love and he gets that glassy eyed look on his face... I'm pretty sure I know where his mind has gone.

DT - I very much admire your positive approach to this issue and your "can do" attitude. Please just be careful. Though he's probably not even aware of it himself, your H's porn use is most likely about coping with an emptiness, sadness, or feeling of inadequacy inside himself. If so, YOU can't fix that.

In other words, you could become the most seductive vixen in the world. He may love it. You may find it fun too. And it will most likely draw you closer together. But it doesn't NECESSARILY mean he will give up the porn. I just don't want you to be crushed if you discover 6 mos... 1 year... 2 years down the road that he's still doing it and hiding it from you.

All my best,
--SC

Smartcookie,


No I wasn't. My point is that DT should be secure in her women hood and her own inner and outer beauty.

As a man we are inundated with these images. Paris Hilton washing a car, coors light comercials, victoria secret commercials etc. It is impossible not to see a woman in some form of undress on a daily basis unless you stay at home in a dark room with no computer or TV.

I open up the target, sears, and walmart circulars and there are women in bra and panties.

My point to it wasn't about the porn itself but the drastic view that looking at any of these images will only lead to lust for another person or that body part.

Do I believe that looking at it might leave him longing for something more hardcore? I sure do and that may be the reason for not looking at it with him but not because he is going to superimpose the women in the add onto DT when she wears that outfit.

HL,



I couldn't agree more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


As women, we are also inundated with these images. Which can make it a daily struggle to feel secure in our womanhood and our own inner and outer beauty -- ESPECIALLY if we know that our husbands spend a significant amount of time satisfying themselves to these types of images. Which is why I really like your attitude in general, and the core message of your last couple of posts. I really do.

On the other hand...



Please don't assume that your mind works the same way as the mind of a guy who uses/used a lot of porn. That's all I'm tryin' to say.

--SC

Yes, do so! It’s a fantastic book! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Also order the book for women “Captivating (Unveiling the Mystery of a Woman's Soul)" by the same author and his wife (John & Stasi Eldredge) and give both books to your H to read too.

Me and my H are currently reading “Wild at Heart”. Each evening we read a chapter together. Last week I’ve also bought “Captivating” and as soon as we are finished with “Wild at Heart” we are going to read this one together too.

SC,


Point taken. BTW - I was not refering to you about the drastic view.


I agree with that as well however if women realized that the images that we are inundated with are not always what a man likes.

Sir Mix a lot had a song called baby got back. It started off by saying I like big butts and I cannot lie.... Part of it is to all you girls in the magazines you ain't miss thing. I like em real big and juicy.

What an insight. LOL.

The point being that women see these images and think that is what men want. They think they are less then or not equal to these images.

To be completely honest my FWW is petite and brunette. Why because I like petite brunette's. I am not partial to tall blonde's. If any of you are tall blondes do not get offended I am just not attracted to tall blondes. Not saying there is anything wrong with them.

No my FWW does not look like them. She doesn't have long legs, or a skinny butt. But I don't like long legs and a skinny butt. Last night she said you like my Butt and I said no I don't she said yes you do. I said no I don't. She said you love my butt and I said YES I DO!!!!

The point is that the images I am being inundated by are not necessarily what I am attracted too.

If I can say anything to the women on this board is that no matter who you are, what you look like, what your physical flaws are you are beautiful.

Your husband chose you because of that. A big part is physical attaction. Do not beleive that these women we see are necessarily what we want.

Look I am no: Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, George Clooney, or even Jim Carey. I am me. Can I compare with these guys in the looks department? I don't know but I don't care because I am not comparing myself to them.

I do agree with the Porn thing and the H's that do that are wrong. That it is a problem.

You have the power to decide if you are going to let that happen to you and how it will effect you. You can stop comparing yourself to these images.

If your H does he is wrong and should be flogged.

If my FWW wants these people and I am not good enough or she can do better fine. Go do it. My value of myself is the value I put on myself. Not what the media tells me about myself.

There is an old joke that goes like this.

There is an old man sitting at a bar. He is sitting next to this young guy. A strikingly beautiful women walks up next to them. When she walks away the young guy is gushing. Did you see the legs on her. She had a great rack. What great eyes.

Finally the old man says son she aint perfect. The young guy says how can you say that. He said because somewhere there is a man that had that and finally got tired of her and that is why she is here.

There is always more then meets the eye.